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#3348904 - 04/21/14 08:47 AM Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas
hatt Offline


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 2502
Loc: Florida
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Biofuels made from the leftovers of harvested corn plants are worse than gasoline for global warming in the short term, a study shows, challenging the Obama administration's conclusions that they are a much cleaner oil alternative and will help combat climate change.

A $500,000 study paid for by the federal government and released Sunday in the peer-reviewed journal Nature Climate Change concludes that biofuels made with corn residue release 7 percent more greenhouse gases in the early years compared with conventional gasoline.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20140421/APW/304219930

I'm more concerned about how economical it is.
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#3348920 - 04/21/14 09:02 AM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
bepperb Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4932
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I don't understand:

" Biofuels made from the leftovers of harvested corn plants are worse than gasoline for global warming in the short term"\

What is the short term and what is the long term? The article doesn't state the breakeven point and that's a pretty important thing. Even if it's decades out it seems silly to worry about short term impacts to the global environment (which is a pretty long term situation).

The financial aspects are probably more important, I'd agree, but for the industry they need the 1.00 a gallon subsidy or this is a non-starter.
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#3348936 - 04/21/14 09:23 AM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
01_celica_gt Offline


Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 1676
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Known this for quite a while, me & my wife looked into it especially as the gas in Chicago gave us +4-5 mpg city & highway, which was way above EPA estimates on my older cars...

Chicago gas clearly states same octane rating and the same 10% ethanol added statement. I just believe their regulations are better as they may only have 10%, where as everywhere else is more then 10%.

In Iowa I paid 4.75 last year for some premium(91 octane) gas no ethanol, my 2ZZ-GE gave me 36 mpg and this was 80% highway 20% city mileage wise with a significant among of fuel wasted during the engine rebuild in which 30 minutes the engine was idling with RPMs at 2-3k constant as the 1st attempt the after market piston rings failed and engine kept smoking, OEM rings ordered problem fixed. On my way back filled up at Iowa again this time premium(91 octane) gas paid the avg 3.75 with ethanol and back to 28 mpg 100% highway.

EPA is rated at 20/27/23 and I always get 27-28 highway on 90%+ highway
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#3348948 - 04/21/14 09:36 AM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4494
Loc: 327km N of the other border
My first thought was, "Woo hoo, another 500k down the drain."

My second was, "Another journalist trying to write", reference short vs long term.

Third: afaik it still takes more energy to process corn into fuel than you get out of the fuel in the end.

My fourth thought was political and not posted here!


Edited by Kuato (04/21/14 09:38 AM)
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#3349200 - 04/21/14 02:32 PM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
Barkleymut Offline


Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 2656
Loc: Richmond, VA
All of my thoughts are political on this topic.....I would however have liked to fill up with e85 just one time in the wife's previous car just to see how much different it ran....but alas there were no convenient stations around here.
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#3349219 - 04/21/14 02:53 PM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 17173
Loc: Sunny Florida
Nice post.

Facts are so inconvenient. And upsetting to the kool aid drinkers...
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#3349323 - 04/21/14 05:21 PM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10500
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Quote:
The research is among the first to attempt to quantify, over 12 Corn Belt states, how much carbon is lost to the atmosphere when the stalks, leaves and cobs that make up residue are removed and used to make biofuel, instead of left to naturally replenish the soil with carbon.

This is the most amazing statement in the entire piece. Just starting to quantify? How exactly do they make climate change models for 25 years when they are just starting to quantify these things?

"Assumed" seems to be the basis for a whole lot of these "studies" going on.

I wonder how much more government money Mr. Liska is going to be getting?
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#3349326 - 04/21/14 05:26 PM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: SteveSRT8]
chuck1955 Offline


Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 59
Loc: minnesota
I read another related article to this study that said the greenhouse gases were 7% more for corn ethanol. They also said if the government did more to promote cars that got 40 mpg it would do far more than this program ever could. Like I have said in the past it's hard to find one positive for this program other than it artificially stimulates the AG industry. We would be far better off with programs that promoted abundant food at fair prices. The government doesn't seem capable of making good decisions that helped everyone including the consumer. At best we would be better off if they got out of the way and removed the mandate that does nothing but promote a bad decision.

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#3349612 - 04/21/14 09:27 PM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: hatt]
chuck1955 Offline


Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 59
Loc: minnesota
Now they need $500,000 study on how much oil this program actually replaces. I think that will show similar results. Main stream media needs to get this information out to the public.

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#3441601 - 07/31/14 11:35 AM Re: Study: Fuels from corn waste not better than gas [Re: bepperb]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 2121
Loc: Central Iowa
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I don't understand:


The financial aspects are probably more important, I'd agree, but for the industry they need the 1.00 a gallon subsidy or this is a non-starter.


Well, they may need or would like a dollar per gallons subsidy, but they just ain't getting it. All subsidies for ethanol producers ended a few years ago. Guess they will just have to make it on their own. I sure don't see any ethanol plants around me closing their doors.

This whole climate change thing is based on models that are conjured up to fulfill a specific agenda. Both sides are guilty. We cannot even get the weather right two weeks out, it is pretty lame to think we can predict what is going to happen a hundred years out. And considering that man is barely a blip on the radar when it comes to GHG emissions, it is pretty arrogant of us to think that we are some prime mover and shaker when it comes to global environmental conditions. Locally, yes. Globally, hardly. The earth itself emits more GHG stuff in one year than mankind has in the last 5000.
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