2015 Outback - Subaru drops the MT and AT

[buster]

Link

Quote:
The new 2015 Outback drops the six-manual and five-speed automatic and gets a new CVT transmission and now gets 33 mpg. That’s a 3 mpg gain over the previous generation 2014 model. That takes the new Outback to the top of the AWD crossover range in fuel economy. Why did Subaru drop the 6-speed manual?


Quote:
Subaru doesn’t need to offer the manual or the five-speed automatic because they have improved their new Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) called Lineartronic, so Outback now gets 33 mpg highway with their four cylinder Boxer.


Quote:
This writer isn’t fond of the CVT transmission, but I recently drove the new 2014 Subaru XV Crosstrek Hybrid with the Lineartronic and was impressed. We took the Subaru Lineartronic CVT in the XV Hybrid up I-70 into the mountains west of Denver and pushed it hard. The shifts were smooth and there were only minor discern-able steps or shifts between the highest and lowest available ratios. Subaru has made impressive improvements in the CVT for sure with the new Lineartronic. The new Outback now features the same new Lineartronic CVT and Outback buyers will be impressed with it.


I continue to be surprised by how many die hard manual trans guys are actually preferring the Subaru CVT over their manual.

 

[147_Grain]

I'm already impressed with the quality of Subaru products and am considering adding a new 2014 Forester or maybe even a 2015 Outback to compliment the '13 Outback 6-cylinder.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: buster


Quote:
The shifts were smooth and there were only minor discern-able steps or shifts between the highest and lowest available ratios.


This is nonsense, there are no shifts in CVT.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

To eliminate the rubber band effect, Toyota, Honda and Subaru program "shift" points under moderate - hard acceleration.

 

[antiqueshell]

I always have great suspicion when these "journalists" seem to craftily concede that reducing or eliminating choice is just fine in the end. Payola anyone?

Why eliminate the 6 speed manual? The design and production is already amortized.

But I bet the 6 speed will be available in the RoW, especially in Europe.

Oh, and most importantly the real test will be when these vehicles start putting the miles on them. will the CVT stand up to the test of time? When and if they do NOT and need repairs or replacement it is going to cost the owner a fortune to replace that unit, verses the cost of a new clutch or flywheel for the manual unit if it ever needs replacing during the life of the vehicle.

 

[Boomer]

15 years ago our friends had a Subie wagon. When the clutch went out a new clutch, resurfaced pressure plate and throw out bearing was over $2000 at the Subaru dealer!!!! I had a Cavalier done around the same time at a Chevy dealer and it was just a tad over $500 for the same stuff. it is one of the reasons I never bought a Subaru. And my Cavalier went for almost 11 yeasrs. The clutch went because I taught my 16 year old son to drive on it. I think we had well over 125,000 miles on it when we decided we wanted a new vehicle.

So, in my friend's experience, a stick shift Subaru was not an inexpensive car to maintain, at least from the perspective of the tranny.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
15 years ago our friends had a Subie wagon. When the clutch went out a new clutch, resurfaced pressure plate and throw out bearing was over $2000 at the Subaru dealer!!!!


We had a throw bearing failure in our 2005 Subaru a few years ago. We performed all the exact same work for $700 at the local Subaru mechanic. They don't all cost $2000.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
The clutch went because I taught my 16 year old son to drive on it. I think we had well over 125,000 miles on it when we decided we wanted a new vehicle.



So you knowingly put a inexperienced driver who doesn't know how to drive stick behind the wheel on a higher mileage car and blame the clutch for the failure? LOL

Why would you take the car to the dealer when it is that old? It is never a good idea to go to a dealer on any brand vehicle that is that old and high mileage they will all screw you on price, they call them
"stealers" for a reason.

 

[rjundi]

One less choice for my wife to replace our 2005 Legacy manual turbo wagon with.....

 

[michaelluscher]

 

[Barkleymut]

$100 says the cvt is no where near as reliable as the MT..... discuss....

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


Why eliminate the 6 speed manual? The design and production is already amortized.

But I bet the 6 speed will be available in the RoW, especially in Europe.

Oh, and most importantly the real test will be when these vehicles start putting the miles on them. will the CVT stand up to the test of time? When and if they do NOT and need repairs or replacement it is going to cost the owner a fortune to replace that unit, verses the cost of a new clutch or flywheel for the manual unit if it ever needs replacing during the life of the vehicle.


Exactly. Why people don't get this is beyond me.

Pure and simple, I'm very confident it is merely a move to avoid paying a test fee for the EPA mpg rating.

A real bummer because this was definitely on my short list for family vehicles to compliment a minivan.

 

[gofast182]

My understanding is there's also a good deal of work involved in programming increasingly complex VSA software to work with any combination of new chassis/engine/trans which is a reason it's cost-prohibitive to add other transmission options anymore.

CVTs aren't known for handling torque well. I hope Subaru has this sorted considering the H6 option in the Legacy.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Much more than a test fee involved here.

Each powertrain must pass real world certification. IIRC that is at least a 50k mile real world test, may even be 100k miles.

No matter what, it costs them HUGE $$$ to certify every combo of engine and trans, and now that stability/yaw/ABS/traction control all require integration into the vehicle a single trans option just makes financial sense.

Very low demand for a stick...

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
$100 says the cvt is no where near as reliable as the MT..... discuss....


I disagree. More reliable, maybe....but so far there haven't been any issues with the Subaru CVT. It's made very well.

One thing I think people tend to forget, or not acknowledge, and that is, not all manuals are good. My car is OK, but not a great MT. There are some cars where the AT is preferable to the MT, unless you absolutely have to have control of the shifting.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
15 years ago our friends had a Subie wagon. When the clutch went out a new clutch, resurfaced pressure plate and throw out bearing was over $2000 at the Subaru dealer!!!!


Yep. Anyone saying the a manual transmission results in lower cost of ownership isn't all that familiar with Subarus. The going rate at indy places around here is about $1,400-1,600, and for whatever reason Subarus seem to go through clutches much more often than FWD cars (or, maybe my friends are just terrible drivers).

If this transmission lasts for 250K, it's probably a cheaper way to go even if fuel economy is a wash. At least for now, you can probably install a low-mileage salvage CVT for the same price as a clutch replacement. You can get a JDM CVT for about $700.00 right now.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
$100 says the cvt is no where near as reliable as the MT..... discuss....


As I said in my last post, I'm willing to bet the CVT will cost significantly less to own. The transmission will probably outlast 2 to 3 (very expensive) clutch replacements. And frankly, the gearbox itself is probably just as durable not even including the clutch, since Subie MT's don't really have the best reputation, either.

 

[supton]

A while ago I was curious, and wanted a car with better gearing for moving my camper--meaning, deeper first and reverse gearing. I found Subaru, at least in the models I was looking at, had relatively high gearing.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
So you knowingly put a inexperienced driver who doesn't know how to drive stick behind the wheel on a higher mileage car and blame the clutch for the failure? LOL


Read the post again; I don't think he was attributing the failure to the clutch. I think his point was that a manual transmission isn't necessarily cheaper in the long run to own (compared with an automatic transmission).

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
$100 says the cvt is no where near as reliable as the MT..... discuss....


As I said in my last post, I'm willing to bet the CVT will cost significantly less to own. The transmission will probably outlast 2 to 3 (very expensive) clutch replacements. And frankly, the gearbox itself is probably just as durable not even including the clutch, since Subie MT's don't really have the best reputation, either.

I wouldn't bet on the manual trans for taxi service(although much of the world does!), but if someone knows what they are doing, the clutch and trans should last a long long time. Like 200k miles for the clutch and longer for the trans itself. Maybe Subaru cheaps out on clutch material, or people beating the tar out of their WRX gives their trans a bad name?
I'd hope they would try to make a CVT go the same distance, but personally I will try to avoid a CVT for a few years yet.