Women! And the nice guy

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Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: salv
She was bored and/or interested in somebody else. Emphasis on somebody else. Maybe she wasn't cheating, but she wanted to.
He should let her go if he really wants to keep her. Sounds wrong, huh?
If he immediately stops talking to her and makes no effort to get her back, she will feel that he didn't really love her. She will start questioning and doubting herself, and voila, she will start trying to talk to him. As long as he remains distant and apathetic, while taking her calls and offering brief, emotionally neutral responses to texts, she will start trying again.


This I agree with.


Originally Posted By: salv
But, she'll dump him again after all is said and done.
He needs to find somebody else.


This, not so much.


About 10 years ago I met a nice girl on one of those cheesy dating websites. Things got serious pretty quickly, but a few months later she left because she was interested in someone else. (At least she was honest about it) A couple months later she realized she made the wrong decision. We've been married 2 1/2 years now.


Sounds like she settled.....
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Nice guys not only finish last, they finish in a ditch with a boot pressed on their face. Remember that.


LMAO!!! I am going to remember this one and use it!
 
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: salv
She was bored and/or interested in somebody else. Emphasis on somebody else. Maybe she wasn't cheating, but she wanted to.
He should let her go if he really wants to keep her. Sounds wrong, huh?
If he immediately stops talking to her and makes no effort to get her back, she will feel that he didn't really love her. She will start questioning and doubting herself, and voila, she will start trying to talk to him. As long as he remains distant and apathetic, while taking her calls and offering brief, emotionally neutral responses to texts, she will start trying again.


This I agree with.


Originally Posted By: salv
But, she'll dump him again after all is said and done.
He needs to find somebody else.


This, not so much.


About 10 years ago I met a nice girl on one of those cheesy dating websites. Things got serious pretty quickly, but a few months later she left because she was interested in someone else. (At least she was honest about it) A couple months later she realized she made the wrong decision. We've been married 2 1/2 years now.


Sounds like she settled.....


I wouldn't go that far. She just realized she had a good thing and lost it. Sounds like a happy ending to me.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Does she come from a broken home with no father in the picture? Chicks with daddy issues are always like that. They're abuse cravers,bum lovers,etc. They're just f'd up in the head and if they're with a genuinely good/nice guy,they get bored and dump them for a bum or an abuser,BUT then start boo-hooing about their new loser bf abusing them. Happens like clockwork.

Tell your friend to burn all bridges with this chick.


Good observation!

You may be right on the money. A lot of girls I have known are just like this.
Her "reasons" are ridiculous and bogus. She is a liar.

That friend should be done with her and NEVER look back, even if she comes back to him.
 
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In other words, if something comes easy, people don't value it. If you have to work for it, you will value it more.

I'm sure there is point where it's too much work. So you gotta find that sweet spot. Make her work for it, but not so much that she'll find you are not worth the effort.
 
If a girl breaks up with you - its a good thing. Doesn't matter why she did.

Would have happened later anyway, maybe after marriage. Been even harder to take then.

Yes it hurts like the hot place. Deal with it. Move on.

My opinion is worth what you paid to read it. Best wishes to all involved.

.
 
some women associate aggression, chauvenism, thoughtlessness to be signs of manly essence. sometimes it's due to past psychological conditioning ie (step-)daddy, but it's not entirely wrong. in the animal kingdom that would be a fine criteria to have.

conversely, overly yielding, considerate, thoughtful, 'nice' guys come off, to some part of the deep animal woman psyche, as weak, effeminate unsuitable mates- unable to fight others to protect the family, hunt for meat and having low levels of male sex hormones which drive that protective, aggressive behavior.

humans, being so called higher order mammals, do have the ability to be both types of person- at the right time. that's civilization for ya. but very few women respond initially to this ideology of a dynamic partner, therefore they go with tried and true, biologically deterministic behaviors that would more likely suggest the ideal qualities sought after in a mate.

not to suggest anything about your friend, but in a discussion about 'the nice guy' and being dumped, i hate to put it bluntly; but perhaps she wasn't finding the ambitious 'animal' she desired in the bedroom or another aspect of life

on the other hand, some women purposely go after the aggressive bonehead, get slapped around for a few years and then, after the best years of her life are gone and she's saddled with 4 children with no father figure, THEN AND ONLY THEN will she go after the nice single guy, who is almost certainly a neckbeard, level 40 wizard master by this time, but perhaps has money or some other incentive going for him.

and that's love in the new world lol. y'either got the money or the meat.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles

.......not to suggest anything about your friend, but in a discussion about 'the nice guy' and being dumped, i hate to put it bluntly; but perhaps she wasn't finding the ambitious 'animal' she desired in the bedroom or another aspect of life


and that's love in the new world lol. y'either got the money or the meat.


This is what I was referring to as "maybe she settled".
 
Geesh.....this thread is so full of what seems like psychological head games. I'd say if it so hard to get and keep a nice lady as your companion, with all the "don't be too nice"...."make her work at it"....."nice guys finish last" stuff....I think that for some fellas it would be best to just get a good dog.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Geesh.........I think that for some fellas it would be best to just get a good dog.


Throw the dog and the old lady out and see which one is happy to see you in the morning!
 
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
He is 26, she is 25. Both were very into staying in shape and often were together working out and such.


My take on your twenties. It is very hard but a bad time to get hung up with any woman. They are experimenting and figuring out who they are. The great parts of that are the experimentation includes sexually to varying degrees but the bad parts are they have no idea of identity. Enjoy the best parts and learn yourself. I got burned in my twenties too and wasted a few years missing out on all what women had to offer.

Settlement etc is for your thirties.
 
Possibly.

It's not just a problem with one side of the equation. Men and women alike have to deal with the nature and nurture aspects of being raised, condition and/or programmed genetically.

I just say anything easily gained is not valued is from life experience. I've seen too many kids who were given free rides in life by their parents not value the things they had. That free car, college tuition, etc are often squandered because the kid didn't have to work for it.

It's not hard to imagine that folks who have relationships "fall in their laps" might be the same way. The guy or gal who gets a partner easy is less likely to work hard at the relationship.

There is a reason we have the saying, "easy come, easy go!" It applies to many aspects of life.

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Geesh.....this thread is so full of what seems like psychological head games. I'd say if it so hard to get and keep a nice lady as your companion, with all the "don't be too nice"...."make her work at it"....."nice guys finish last" stuff....I think that for some fellas it would be best to just get a good dog.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Possibly.

It's not just a problem with one side of the equation. Men and women alike have to deal with the nature and nurture aspects of being raised, condition and/or programmed genetically.

I just say anything easily gained is not valued is from life experience. I've seen too many kids who were given free rides in life by their parents not value the things they had. That free car, college tuition, etc are often squandered because the kid didn't have to work for it.

It's not hard to imagine that folks who have relationships "fall in their laps" might be the same way. The guy or gal who gets a partner easy is less likely to work hard at the relationship.

There is a reason we have the saying, "easy come, easy go!" It applies to many aspects of life.

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Geesh.....this thread is so full of what seems like psychological head games. I'd say if it so hard to get and keep a nice lady as your companion, with all the "don't be too nice"...."make her work at it"....."nice guys finish last" stuff....I think that for some fellas it would be best to just get a good dog.

I don't play mental or emotional games to get or keep my current girlfriend. I don't hold back being kind, helpful, loving, or being a gentleman...because she might think I'm too "easy" or "nice". Living ones relationships as some sort of chess game is horse [censored]. I won't do it now....or ever. I be whom I want to be....which is myself. If some female doesn't like ME....then get lost. If I don't like something that my girlfriend does or doesn't do...I tell her. Same for her. We know that we are highly imperfect people....you might even say an imperfect couple. That's life. But the games on here people are ascribing to in order to catch a woman is really sad. I can't imagine living possibly YEARS and even DECADES with a woman, gauging everything I do with her as too much kindness or making it too easy for her. That's dumb as anything I can think of. Be yourself, be a gentleman, respect each other....and if that isn't enough, then find a different mate.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting you play games. I think what folks are saying is don't be a spineless yes-man.

You said it yourself, if you don't like something, you say it.

There are many who DON'T.

Are they playing a game, or just programmed/conditioned to suck it up, say nothing, etc?

What many ascribe to games is just poor role models, conditioning, etc.

If you got from what I wrote, that you should play games, then either I wasn't clear or you are reading something into what I've said that isn't there.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I don't think anyone is suggesting you play games. I think what folks are saying is don't be a spineless yes-man.

You said it yourself, if you don't like something, you say it.

There are many who DON'T.

Are they playing a game, or just programmed/conditioned to suck it up, say nothing, etc?

What many ascribe to games is just poor role models, conditioning, etc.

If you got from what I wrote, that you should play games, then either I wasn't clear or you are reading something into what I've said that isn't there.

No...I didn't get the 'game' opinion on here from you necessarily. But many posters in this thread are saying things that leave me to believe that they certainly do treat a relationship as a game. Like chess or something, instead of being yourself. If a fella is being spineless and behaving like a doormat, that's one thing......but simply being kind, caring, loving, and a gentleman isn't spineless but seems to be discarded here in favor of something akin to a game of emotional oneupmanship. There isn't such a thing as being "too nice" in a relationship. If spouses and companions would both practice being more kind toward each other I suspect relationships would be more meaningful and lasting. Besides, if some women thought that by being a gentleman and treating her kindly was "too nice"....then she can go find some "bad-boy" that will treat her like dirt and live a predestined life because of her emotionally dysfunctional upbringing.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
However, the lack of "Alpha" behavior on his part ruined the relationship. Had he behaved just a bit differently, been a leader, a bit "tougher" or rough around the edges and they'd be married right now.


I don't think I agree with this. I think the "alpha" schtick is just as phony as the "nice guy" thing. Both acts ultimately lead you down the road that leads to bad relationships. The "nice guy" doesn't realize that women need him to have a spine, and the "alpha" guy doesn't realize that women need him to be gentle and kind.

I like to think that most women would simply say that they don't want a spineless doormat. But I don't believe that means they want the opposite, which is an overbearing tool-bucket of a man who tries to impose his toughness on everybody and everything.

When I stopped trying so hard everything started to click. I gave up trying to pick and choose aspects of myself to hide or show to ladies I was dating. I stopped doing the lapdog thing by putting women on a pedestal and I stopped worrying about being more "alpha" than the next guy.

What I ended up with was a woman who saw, and accepted all my flaws (because I let her see them), and I didn't oversell myself and create a bunch of ridiculous expectations that I would tire of trying to live up to for the rest of my life.

In short.... be yourself and have fun.
 
I think what folks call "too nice" is really relationship weakness.

The person is too weak. They won't stand up for what they want.

Now the other side of that, the "too hard" guy that's mentioned above is also a manifestation of too weak. They have to hide behind the hard persona to protect themselves.

Relationships are not for the weak. Marriage isn't for wimps. I know that both I and my ex-wife carried certain weaknesses into our marriage. I put up with a lot of crud. That was my form of weakness. Willingness to suffer, to be a martyr for the relationship. Her? She wasn't willing to speak up and be honest. If I'd ask how things were, her reply: fine!

But instead of being honest and saying I want X, Y or Z when I asked, she went out and had an affair.

Yep, I said it. Being unfaithful is a manifestation of relationship weakness. It's not macho, or a "you go girl" sort of thing. Lying to your partner is the ultimate form of weakness on display. You are not strong or mature enough to tell your partner the truth about how things are.

So what we call "too nice" or "too hard" or "too submissive" or "too controlling" or "too name_any_negative_attribute" is really just your relationship weakness manifested.

So I would add to the above excellent suggestions of be yourself and have fun to be strong and be honest. Any coward can lie or cheat, or not say anything. It takes relationship strength to be honest with your partner and tell him/her when things are bad for you and how you would like to see them addressed.

And if you don't know, be honest, but also be strong enough to say, I'm your partner so I'm willing to work with you to find a solution to the problem.

It doesn't take any strength or courage to lie, cheat, give up, walk-away or any other similar action. It takes strength and character to be a partner someone can count on in every aspect imaginable. At the very least, you should be someone one can count on to do no harm. You may not know the answers to a difficult problem or situation, but you are committed to not being part of the problem by making it worse.

Gets off soapbox now...
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Cujet
However, the lack of "Alpha" behavior on his part ruined the relationship. Had he behaved just a bit differently, been a leader, a bit "tougher" or rough around the edges and they'd be married right now.


I don't think I agree with this. I think the "alpha" schtick is just as phony as the "nice guy" thing. Both acts ultimately lead you down the road that leads to bad relationships. The "nice guy" doesn't realize that women need him to have a spine, and the "alpha" guy doesn't realize that women need him to be gentle and kind.

I like to think that most women would simply say that they don't want a spineless doormat. But I don't believe that means they want the opposite, which is an overbearing tool-bucket of a man who tries to impose his toughness on everybody and everything.

When I stopped trying so hard everything started to click. I gave up trying to pick and choose aspects of myself to hide or show to ladies I was dating. I stopped doing the lapdog thing by putting women on a pedestal and I stopped worrying about being more "alpha" than the next guy.

What I ended up with was a woman who saw, and accepted all my flaws (because I let her see them), and I didn't oversell myself and create a bunch of ridiculous expectations that I would tire of trying to live up to for the rest of my life.

In short.... be yourself and have fun.

So far....just about the very best post on here. Loads of truth and straight forward common sense.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Cujet
However, the lack of "Alpha" behavior on his part ruined the relationship. Had he behaved just a bit differently, been a leader, a bit "tougher" or rough around the edges and they'd be married right now.


I don't think I agree with this. I think the "alpha" schtick is just as phony as the "nice guy" thing. Both acts ultimately lead you down the road that leads to bad relationships. The "nice guy" doesn't realize that women need him to have a spine, and the "alpha" guy doesn't realize that women need him to be gentle and kind.

I like to think that most women would simply say that they don't want a spineless doormat. But I don't believe that means they want the opposite, which is an overbearing tool-bucket of a man who tries to impose his toughness on everybody and everything.

When I stopped trying so hard everything started to click. I gave up trying to pick and choose aspects of myself to hide or show to ladies I was dating. I stopped doing the lapdog thing by putting women on a pedestal and I stopped worrying about being more "alpha" than the next guy.

What I ended up with was a woman who saw, and accepted all my flaws (because I let her see them), and I didn't oversell myself and create a bunch of ridiculous expectations that I would tire of trying to live up to for the rest of my life.

In short.... be yourself and have fun.


I re-read my post and I really should have said: The total lack of ANY alpha behavior on his part... In other words, he was a nice, pushover, kind of guy. There was no "manliness" there.
 
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