New Pennzoil Website Updates, TDSheets

[Cooper]

Pennzoil will continue to make a great product. They can't afford not to. The fear mongering without any proof in the thread is ridiculous.

So, volatility is a little higher? You think volatility is everything? They are now on par with just about every other oil in one aspect of the formulation. It is the total package and most of you should know that, otherwise you wouldn't be here......

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
Pennzoil will continue to make a great product. They can't afford not to. The fear mongering without any proof in the thread is ridiculous.

So, volatility is a little higher? You think volatility is everything? They are now on par with just about every other oil in one aspect of the formulation. It is the total package and most of you should know that, otherwise you wouldn't be here......


Yes, volatility is EVERYTHING, there is nothing else in the universe of oils to consider. Of course you're right.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
Pennzoil will continue to make a great product. They can't afford not to. The fear mongering without any proof in the thread is ridiculous.

So, volatility is a little higher? You think volatility is everything? They are now on par with just about every other oil in one aspect of the formulation. It is the total package and most of you should know that, otherwise you wouldn't be here......


Well, sure, volatility isn't everything. But without access to a laboratory, we don't have a lot of information to make any judgement about base stock quality, so we're pretty much stuck with volatility and low temperature viscosity as proxies.

Ultra's volatility didn't increase "a little" with the reformulation: in 5w/20 it doubled, going from class-leading to merely typical. Cold weather performance is a bit worse as well.

Ultra is a fine oil, I'm sure, but we pick nits here. With the limited information we have and absent any comments from Pennzoil or real-world experience it's not unreasonable to assume the new Ultra is not better than the old. And for those of us with DI engines, volatility is kind of a big deal.

The point remains: why is Ultra superior to Platinum or Mobil1? Other than marketing hype, we have no answers. Maybe experience will show it's the best oil ever, but until then...

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: buster
I don't see what the big deal is. Sure, there is a noticeable jump in volatility, but it's still a very good product. Assuming the claims about the IIIG/IVA test still stand.

What some are leaving out is the unique, and I believe proprietary detergent system, that they are using. As usual everyone gets caught up in one particular component and gets sidetracked. It's the entire package.

Pennzoil is using GTL because Shell invested in it. That's it.




If my next car happens to be a turbo, it's likely the oil I will use.

I'll try and find the video where Mark mentions the unique detergent additives.


Aren't the additives unique because they have to work with GTL?

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Danh
The point remains: why is Ultra superior to Platinum or Mobil1? Other than marketing hype, we have no answers. Maybe experience will show it's the best oil ever, but until then...


Unless Pennzoil lies, they do claim to have compared actual Sequence IIIG piston deposits results (Buick 3.8L V6) and observed PPU (Ultra) is cleaner than PP, Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol synthetics. Thats not hype, its a tangible result from a representative engine.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
Pennzoil will continue to make a great product. They can't afford not to. The fear mongering without any proof in the thread is ridiculous.

So, volatility is a little higher? You think volatility is everything? They are now on par with just about every other oil in one aspect of the formulation. It is the total package and most of you should know that, otherwise you wouldn't be here......


Agree. The strictest NOACK I know of is 10% by Mercedes. There are Euro applications that have 2 year drain intervals so this is where it comes into play.

I read that GL6 will have a max of 13%. So why the concern that it's no longer 6% when its way better than required?

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Aren't the additives unique because they have to work with GTL?


I luv that question. Makes you wonder. I mean, if they changed their base oil to GTL, and changed their additives too, then they would have to run all the tests over again (SN GF5 4718M dexos1 HTO-06 ACEA, etc.) Since its expensive and time consuming to re-certify oil, I'll bet the additive package is the same, and they were able to make technical arguments that the change in base oil to GTL didn't alter performance in any bad direction. I could be wrong, since we see they have lost ground on some key physical performance parameters such as volatility increases.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: Danh
The point remains: why is Ultra superior to Platinum or Mobil1? Other than marketing hype, we have no answers. Maybe experience will show it's the best oil ever, but until then...


Unless Pennzoil lies, they do claim to have compared actual Sequence IIIG piston deposits results (Buick 3.8L V6) and observed PPU (Ultra) is cleaner than PP, Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol synthetics. Thats not hype, its a tangible result from a representative engine.


Except that's another single reference point: we've been admonished for doing that with Noack and not considering the total package. Who knows, maybe Ultra is great at keeping pistons clean but at the expense of wear or sludge or TBN retention. Pennzoil isn't going to talk about performance characteristics where the competition is better.

Pennzoil could have avoided whatever small (very small) headache this is causing by just not publishing Noack results in their TDS or giving a concise explanation for the increase. But as BITOG, like nature, abhors a vacuum, this is what happens.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Pennzoil will continue to make a great product. They can't afford not to. The fear mongering without any proof in the thread is ridiculous.

So, volatility is a little higher? You think volatility is everything? They are now on par with just about every other oil in one aspect of the formulation. It is the total package and most of you should know that, otherwise you wouldn't be here......

Agree. The strictest NOACK I know of is 10% by Mercedes. There are Euro applications that have 2 year drain intervals so this is where it comes into play.

I read that GL6 will have a max of 13%. So why the concern that it's no longer 6% when its way better than required?

No, if they lowered the NOACK to 13% with GF-6, they would no longer be able to sell conventional oil (Groups II and I), as 13% is not possible with Group II. GF-6 NOACK will be the same as GF-5, which is 15%.

http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/june-2012/specification-update-june-2012

Pennzoil Ultra 0W-40 has a NOACK of 13%, which is very high for it to be considered a top-quality synthetic. It fails many of the European specs, which require NOACK as little as 10%. NOACK is the primary indicator of base-oil quality; so, the quality of Pennzoil synthetic has gone down significantly. It's no longer a premium synthetic. You may be better of with Super Tech synthetic.

Questions to ask: (1) Why is NOACK so large for a GTL base oil? (2) How is the oxidation of the new Pennzoil synthetic?

When you guys do UOAs with the new Pennzoil synthetic, get the TAN as well as the TBN so that we could have an idea of the oxidation.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Pennzoil could have avoided whatever small (very small) headache this is causing by just not publishing Noack results in their TDS or giving a concise explanation for the increase.

And we could expect them to admit that it's because they use half-

Qatari GTL.

 

[Cooper]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
the quality of Pennzoil synthetic has gone down significantly. It's no longer a premium synthetic. You may be better of with Super Tech synthetic.


I thought I had seen it all here before, I guess not. Pennzoil no longer a premium synthetic? Really?!? Super Tech synthetic is a premium synthetic?

Please, prove this point you make. Please! I want to see you try.......it will be fun.

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Questions to ask: (1) Why is NOACK so large for a GTL base oil? (2) How is the oxidation of the new Pennzoil synthetic?


I tend to agree with Gokhan. ... On the one hand, Pennzoil makes statements like: "Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology keep critical engine parts clean and protected, and they has high resistance to oil degradation and low volatility which helps them to maintain the protection over the oil drain interval also resulting in less need for oil top-up." ... Then we see NOACK rise from 7 to 11 with PurePlus Tech. We want the truth.

Maybe Pennzoil's marketing should have went something like this: "Volatility isn't near as good in our popular 5w-30 as it once was, but we're still great.

"

 

[KCJeep]

Aren't P4 and the new Ultra getting slushed together here? I thought the new P4 was indeed better than it's PP predecessor? P4 will be the one that's going to survive anyway.

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Aren't P4 and the new Ultra getting slushed together here? I thought the new P4 was indeed better than it's PP predecessor? P4 will be the one that's going to survive anyway.


I'm confused, I thought there was only the new PP with pureplus, and a PUP ultra with pureplus also. What is P4?

 

[Cooper]

Pennzoil Platinum Pure Plus.....or P4.

 

[FetchFar]

.. and I guess PU4

 

[Gokhan]

I think oil makers, unlike BITOG posters, can't care less on making any oil that does anything but barely meet the specs. I also think that they vary their blends often according to what they have.

Since in US, no less than 13% NOACK is needed, they are probably using the lowest-quality GTL for best economics.

In Europe, they need much lower NOACK; so, they would have to use higher-quality GTL there.

Regarding my Super Tech comment, all I meant was that with its 11.3% NOACK, it can't be much different in quality than the US versions of P^4 or P^3UP. Pennzoil probably uses trinuclear moly though; so, you can't beat that.

 

[llbts1]

It would be nice if the Pennzoil reps who had previously visited this board in the past, who requested questions and concerns, return to this board and answer some additional questions. We could get a lot cleared up here. They can certainly change up whatever they want, it's their toy, but they might have a valid reason for doing so. Until then, they have left lots of room for question.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Unless Pennzoil lies, they do claim to have compared actual Sequence IIIG piston deposits results (Buick 3.8L V6) and observed PPU (Ultra) is cleaner than PP, Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol synthetics. Thats not hype, its a tangible result from a representative engine.

Yes, but any percentage cleaner of a very negligible amount in the first place is an even more negligible amount.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Unless Pennzoil lies, they do claim to have compared actual Sequence IIIG piston deposits results (Buick 3.8L V6) and observed PPU (Ultra) is cleaner than PP, Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol synthetics. Thats not hype, its a tangible result from a representative engine.

Yes, but any percentage cleaner of a very negligible amount in the first place is an even more negligible amount.

Those tests are very costly and I doubt they bothered with it. Their xx% cleaner claims are probably with respect to the SN/GF-5 limits, and they assume that everyone else's oil only barely meets the SN/GF-5 specs!

Marketing gimmick? More than likely, yes.