2 questions: Napa Synthetic and BMW X5

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Originally Posted By: DirkDiggler

that's my point. If BMW suddenly upped the standards, well, where is my notice as an owner? Where is my new owner's page update? [censored], with everything happening at GM now (I used to work in the product lit group), then I guess I have a class action for BMW's failure to make me aware of new standards and the change in maintenance requirements. Of course, this is a [censored] argument, but it proves that the BMW LL-01 standard (which existed well before 2008), envisioned other oils that were ok then but all of a sudden they are not acceptable or is it because the oil manufacturer didn't want to pay the license fee? Does that mean other oils are ok? Well, as BMW states, they suggest those 3 oils. . . . but it is only a suggestion. :)


Isn't it clear? They want you to call BMW to find out what approved oils are the flavour of the month
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And then they'll try and sell you on their own oil
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However, there is enough documentation out there (including what was/is available on BMW's website) that simply states that LL-01 is the standard and any oil that meets it suites BMW's requirements be it GC 0w-30, M1 0w-40...etc. as long as it carries the spec, you are fine.

The writing in the manual is ridiculous, I agree.
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The writing in the manual is ridiculous, I agree.
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Yup. You'd expect that by 2008 they would have figured it out after some other auto manufacturers' oil fiascos due to not being clear on what specs an oil needs to meet.

Alas, the year is now 2014, and the 2014 M5 owner's manual reads not much better:

Quote:

Viscosity grades for engine oils

When selecting an engine oil, ensure that the engine oil belongs to the viscosity grade
SAE 0W-30 or SAE 0W-40 or malfunctions or engine damage may occur.
Alternatively, also engine oils with viscosity grades SAE 5W-30 or SAE 5W-40 may be
used.

Approved oil types:

Specification
ACEA A3/B4.
API SK/CF or superior grade specification.

Additional information about the approved types of oils can be requested from the service
center.


I suppose mentioning ACEA A3/B4 is better than nothing. But what the heck is API SK? Did someone fat fingered it?

And then there is this:
Quote:
Oil change
An oil change should be carried out by your service center only.

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
They also make a number of references to TIS, and if you look up your vehicle in TIS they do not say "run Fred Penner's SAE 5w-30 SM or newer" for your vehicle, it states BMW Synthetic oil or equivalent meeting LL-01.

Is that what he's doing with impending CBC layoffs? As for me, I'm going to start selling replacement oil pumps in Australia for all the oil pump failures they experience for using thick oils down under.
 
Originally Posted By: DirkDiggler
ACEA A3/B3 is only extended drains for gas engine, very different than bMW LL-01.

Did I say it was the same?

ACEA A3/B4 is a baseline for a lot of the Euro mfg specs. From that baseline, BMW added some additional test/requirements to come up with LL-01.

That's why I wrote that having them listed ACEA A3/B4 in the owners manual is at least better than not listing anything, like your owners manual, because it's a step in the right direction. At least ACEA A3/B4 assures proper HT/HS viscosity.
 
but if A4/B3 and LL-01 are not listed in the owner's manual or the service/warranty manual for this very vehicle, and the service/warranty manual "suggests" using BMW 5w30, M1 5w30 or 5w40 and M1 0w40 and the other "mandatory" LL-01 flavors were not around in 2008 . . . . I am curious why LL-01 is required now or for instance, M1 5w30 is suddenly toxic to the same vehicle?
 
Originally Posted By: DirkDiggler
but if A4/B3 and LL-01 are not listed in the owner's manual or the service/warranty manual for this very vehicle, and the service/warranty manual "suggests" using BMW 5w30, M1 5w30 or 5w40 and M1 0w40 and the other "mandatory" LL-01 flavors were not around in 2008 . . . . I am curious why LL-01 is required now or for instance, M1 5w30 is suddenly toxic to the same vehicle?


The scary part is that the 5w-30 they are referencing as approved is not M1 5w-30, probably some Euro 5w-30 with an HTHS >=3.5cP.
 
BMW only initiated their own oil standards with LL-98 for that model year.
Prior to that, BMW recommended quite thick grades.
5W-30 is recommended for my old BMW only at temperatures below around 20F, for example.
I really doubt that BMW recommends anything less than a minimum HTHSV of 3.5 for the X5 engine.
This would be an oil meeting at least A3 (B3 is a diesel spec so really doesn't matter) or LL-98 or LL-01.
Note that the BMW specs do not require any particular SAE grade.
Both GC 0W-30 and M1 0W-40 meet these specs, as does the Castrol oil marketed as BMW 5W-30.
Now, you could probably use the NAPA 5W-30 in the M5 without concern unless the CUV were really run hard for many miles at a time. Drain intervals might also need to be shorter than would be safe with a complying oil, but you've already indicated that you intend to do 6K drains.
This API spec 5W-30 does not meet BMW's recommendations for this engine, however, and BMW 5W-30 is a much thicker oil at operating temperatures than is the NAPA 5W-30.
 
Originally Posted By: DirkDiggler
but if A4/B3 and LL-01 are not listed in the owner's manual or the service/warranty manual for this very vehicle, and the service/warranty manual "suggests" using BMW 5w30, M1 5w30 or 5w40 and M1 0w40 and the other "mandatory" LL-01 flavors were not around in 2008 . . . . I am curious why LL-01 is required now or for instance, M1 5w30 is suddenly toxic to the same vehicle?

Like I said before, the text in many BMW owners manuals leaves MUCH to be desired.
 
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