Ducked's Dirty Daihatsu

[Ducked]

I got a look at the analyser screen when I was in for my half year vehicle inspection yesterday. 4.7 % CO, 7.2% CO2, IIRC. Didn't see the HC but presumably high (They don't give you a printout, probably the thinking is "no numbers, no pack drill").

The posted limits for a 1990 car (mines 1986 which wasn't posted) were 4.5% and >9%, so that should probably have been a fail, but the private centres tend to cut you some slack for the repeat bizniz, plus they don't wan't the extra hassle of communicating a failure to a non-Chinese speaker. It pays to be dumb sometimes.

Their meters are allegedly "tuned" to read low anyway, so it might be running even dirtier, though the plugs look OK. Spose I'd better try and tune it.

I couldn't remember the UK limits (never having failed a UK emissions test) so I checked them online

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy...7th_Edition.pdf

The CO limit is comparable (it shifted from 4.5% to 3.9% during 1986), but there is no mention of a minimum CO2 value. I suppose having one would prevent faking a test by bleeding air into the exhaust, which I've heard of but never tried.

What happens in the US?

It appears from a quick look that, in at least some US states, a car of this age might be exempt.

 

[01rangerxl]

In most places in the US, if it's not OBDII equipped, it doesn't have to pass emissions if there is any test at all.

When I lived in North Carolina, they did away with emissions for anything pre-OBDII in the early 2000s. My 1995 Explorer was exempt, but it did have to pass a safety inspection for the suspension, brakes, power steering, lights, etc. In rust belt states, rust is a big one.

Here in Alabama, we have no inspections of any kind. I saw an Explorer with totally shot ball joints cruising around today. By totally shot, I mean broken, front end was almost touching the ground. Not sure how the front wheels were actually staying on. I have seen a Ranger driving around with the air bags hanging out of the dash and steering wheel...they didn't even try to shove them back in or cut them out and tape up the covers like some people do.

 

[Ducked]

Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Here in Taiwan there's generally supposed to be a big difference between the private and government test stations, and I've been told its impossible to get a pre-2000 car through a strict government test.

Last year I lost my registration document and had to put the car through a Taiwan government DMV testing centre.

I wasn’t optimistic because governments generally are hostile to old cars, and I thought the DMV guys might therefore be hostile too. In fact, they seemed to find it an amusing novelty.

I turned up with my gf, and, while waiting in the queue, she apparently gave them a shameless sob-story about me being a poor hard working dedicated teacher and we were leaving for Australia next week (steerage, naturally – well Air Asia which is about equivalent) and if it failed I’d be depressed and suicidal and, since I came from Scotland, I might turn violent-drunk and drive her and the starving weans out into the snow.

Mostly true of course, but in the UK one maintains a stiff upper lip about that kind of thing.

Anyway, it seemed that the DMV guys needed to see the right numbers on their gizmo’s, but I got the impression that getting them could be heavily influenced by driver technique, which is a bit surprising if true.

With the DMV guys on-side, I got lots of directions on how to work the brake pedal (I think maybe a sharp jab maximizes the transient braking force recorded, though I was in [censored]? mode at the time.)

For the emissions test I was getting simulcast contradictory broken Chinglish/Mandarin instructions on throttle control from DMV minder (left ear) and gf (right ear) and I’m afraid I lost it a bit and started to giggle uncontrollably.

At that point the DMV guys suggested I take it for a run to get it warmed up (and me calmed down, presumably) and come back for another try, which I did, scaring the gf because, although I couldn’t drive fast in the centre of Tainan, I kept the revs high which “sounds scary”.

A bit before return I gave the car a quick “stage-one eco-tune”, ie I removed the air cleaner and hid it under the seat. Dunno how effective that was.

2nd try a DMV guy took it through (this is standard at the private test centre I usually go to) and was able to coax acceptable numbers from it.

So you CAN get an 80’s car through an “official” (sort of) Taiwan govt test, but it helps if you have the knack, and/or take a girl or two with you.

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
In most places in the US, if it's not OBDII equipped, it doesn't have to pass emissions if there is any test at all.

When I lived in North Carolina, they did away with emissions for anything pre-OBDII in the early 2000s. My 1995 Explorer was exempt, but it did have to pass a safety inspection for the suspension, brakes, power steering, lights, etc. In rust belt states, rust is a big one.

Here in Alabama, we have no inspections of any kind. I saw an Explorer with totally shot ball joints cruising around today. By totally shot, I mean broken, front end was almost touching the ground. Not sure how the front wheels were actually staying on. I have seen a Ranger driving around with the air bags hanging out of the dash and steering wheel...they didn't even try to shove them back in or cut them out and tape up the covers like some people do.


here you can be put in jail for driving around like that. but normally they just take your license plates demanding a new MOT. in the meantime the car can only be moved to a workshop on a autotrans. and you will get a really high fine

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Here in Taiwan there's generally supposed to be a big difference between the private and government test stations, and I've been told its impossible to get a pre-2000 car through a strict government test.

Last year I lost my registration document and had to put the car through a Taiwan government DMV testing centre.

I wasn’t optimistic because governments generally are hostile to old cars, and I thought the DMV guys might therefore be hostile too. In fact, they seemed to find it an amusing novelty.

I turned up with my gf, and, while waiting in the queue, she apparently gave them a shameless sob-story about me being a poor hard working dedicated teacher and we were leaving for Australia next week (steerage, naturally – well Air Asia which is about equivalent) and if it failed I’d be depressed and suicidal and, since I came from Scotland, I might turn violent-drunk and drive her and the starving weans out into the snow.

Mostly true of course, but in the UK one maintains a stiff upper lip about that kind of thing.

Anyway, it seemed that the DMV guys needed to see the right numbers on their gizmo’s, but I got the impression that getting them could be heavily influenced by driver technique, which is a bit surprising if true.

With the DMV guys on-side, I got lots of directions on how to work the brake pedal (I think maybe a sharp jab maximizes the transient braking force recorded, though I was in [censored]? mode at the time.)

For the emissions test I was getting simulcast contradictory broken Chinglish/Mandarin instructions on throttle control from DMV minder (left ear) and gf (right ear) and I’m afraid I lost it a bit and started to giggle uncontrollably.

At that point the DMV guys suggested I take it for a run to get it warmed up (and me calmed down, presumably) and come back for another try, which I did, scaring the gf because, although I couldn’t drive fast in the centre of Tainan, I kept the revs high which “sounds scary”.

A bit before return I gave the car a quick “stage-one eco-tune”, ie I removed the air cleaner and hid it under the seat. Dunno how effective that was.

2nd try a DMV guy took it through (this is standard at the private test centre I usually go to) and was able to coax acceptable numbers from it.

So you CAN get an 80’s car through an “official” (sort of) Taiwan govt test, but it helps if you have the knack, and/or take a girl or two with you.


i am not telling you to do so because i guess it is illegal(it is here), but you can lower your co2 values a good bit by filling the car with a mix of 20 l petrol/2 litre carburator alcohol. works great. but don,t drive with it too long. fill up with ordinary petrol right after the car has passed MOT

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Huge swathes of this country's population don't believe that pumping toxic substances and CO2 into the air leads to the air being filled with toxic substances and CO2. Many of them actually feel it's their patriotic duty NOT to believe that connection. Just because we're a first world country doesn't mean we're populated by first world minds.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Here in Taiwan there's generally supposed to be a big difference between the private and government test stations, and I've been told its impossible to get a pre-2000 car through a strict government test.

Last year I lost my registration document and had to put the car through a Taiwan government DMV testing centre.

I wasn’t optimistic because governments generally are hostile to old cars, and I thought the DMV guys might therefore be hostile too. In fact, they seemed to find it an amusing novelty.

I turned up with my gf, and, while waiting in the queue, she apparently gave them a shameless sob-story about me being a poor hard working dedicated teacher and we were leaving for Australia next week (steerage, naturally – well Air Asia which is about equivalent) and if it failed I’d be depressed and suicidal and, since I came from Scotland, I might turn violent-drunk and drive her and the starving weans out into the snow.

Mostly true of course, but in the UK one maintains a stiff upper lip about that kind of thing.

Anyway, it seemed that the DMV guys needed to see the right numbers on their gizmo’s, but I got the impression that getting them could be heavily influenced by driver technique, which is a bit surprising if true.

With the DMV guys on-side, I got lots of directions on how to work the brake pedal (I think maybe a sharp jab maximizes the transient braking force recorded, though I was in [censored]? mode at the time.)

For the emissions test I was getting simulcast contradictory broken Chinglish/Mandarin instructions on throttle control from DMV minder (left ear) and gf (right ear) and I’m afraid I lost it a bit and started to giggle uncontrollably.

At that point the DMV guys suggested I take it for a run to get it warmed up (and me calmed down, presumably) and come back for another try, which I did, scaring the gf because, although I couldn’t drive fast in the centre of Tainan, I kept the revs high which “sounds scary”.

A bit before return I gave the car a quick “stage-one eco-tune”, ie I removed the air cleaner and hid it under the seat. Dunno how effective that was.

2nd try a DMV guy took it through (this is standard at the private test centre I usually go to) and was able to coax acceptable numbers from it.

So you CAN get an 80’s car through an “official” (sort of) Taiwan govt test, but it helps if you have the knack, and/or take a girl or two with you.


i am not telling you to do so because i guess it is illegal(it is here), but you can lower your co2 values a good bit by filling the car with a mix of 20 l petrol/2 litre carburator alcohol. works great. but don,t drive with it too long. fill up with ordinary petrol right after the car has passed MOT


Thanks. I had thought of that as a possibility, also acetone, or a butane bleed, but it isn't actually necessary at the moment because the private testing station just passed me anyway. I suppose its possible they might not next time around, though. Not sure I understood your recipe. Was that 20 petrol : 1 ethanol?

I'll try and tune it to run leaner. I havm't up to now because the plugs looked OK, and when I first got it there was a suspicion of pre-ignition, (which went away after messing around sucking water into the running engine) and I didn't want to risk detonation.

I could probably get or make a vacuum guage to help. I've also read of people making a mixture meter using a scrap heated oxygen sensor, though that sounds rather complicated.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Huge swathes of this country's population don't believe that pumping toxic substances and CO2 into the air leads to the air being filled with toxic substances and CO2. Many of them actually feel it's their patriotic duty NOT to believe that connection. Just because we're a first world country doesn't mean we're populated by first world minds.


Yeah, emissions and safety testing is done on a state by state basis if not county-by-county.

My county in Maine was compelled by the federal government to come up with a plan due to a number of "bad air days" over consecutive summers. So they came up with the OBDII scan and, OMG, let's make sure gas caps are sealing!!!

The jet stream drags pollution from the rest of the country over us, so we have to put up with this hassle so some yokel somewhere upwind can hollow out his catalytic converter.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Huge swathes of this country's population don't believe that pumping toxic substances and CO2 into the air leads to the air being filled with toxic substances and CO2. Many of them actually feel it's their patriotic duty NOT to believe that connection. Just because we're a first world country doesn't mean we're populated by first world minds.


Yeah, emissions and safety testing is done on a state by state basis if not county-by-county.

My county in Maine was compelled by the federal government to come up with a plan due to a number of "bad air days" over consecutive summers. So they came up with the OBDII scan and, OMG, let's make sure gas caps are sealing!!!

The jet stream drags pollution from the rest of the country over us, so we have to put up with this hassle so some yokel somewhere upwind can hollow out his catalytic converter.

No, yokels don't have catalytic converters... They have Cadillac converters. /rolleyes/

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Huge swathes of this country's population don't believe that pumping toxic substances and CO2 into the air leads to the air being filled with toxic substances and CO2. Many of them actually feel it's their patriotic duty NOT to believe that connection. Just because we're a first world country doesn't mean we're populated by first world minds.


Amen to that, bro. But that being said, try the alcohol method like someone else said. There are products here in the US that claim to clean out the system and pass the emissions tests. BTW I've always wanted to visit Taiwan and Japan. There's a lot of history there.

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Wow! Thought it was pretty casual here (which I rather like.)

Surprising considering that the British (or at least my) perception was that the anti-emissions push originated in the US, but I suppose that really means California.

Here in Taiwan there's generally supposed to be a big difference between the private and government test stations, and I've been told its impossible to get a pre-2000 car through a strict government test.

Last year I lost my registration document and had to put the car through a Taiwan government DMV testing centre.

I wasn’t optimistic because governments generally are hostile to old cars, and I thought the DMV guys might therefore be hostile too. In fact, they seemed to find it an amusing novelty.

I turned up with my gf, and, while waiting in the queue, she apparently gave them a shameless sob-story about me being a poor hard working dedicated teacher and we were leaving for Australia next week (steerage, naturally – well Air Asia which is about equivalent) and if it failed I’d be depressed and suicidal and, since I came from Scotland, I might turn violent-drunk and drive her and the starving weans out into the snow.

Mostly true of course, but in the UK one maintains a stiff upper lip about that kind of thing.

Anyway, it seemed that the DMV guys needed to see the right numbers on their gizmo’s, but I got the impression that getting them could be heavily influenced by driver technique, which is a bit surprising if true.

With the DMV guys on-side, I got lots of directions on how to work the brake pedal (I think maybe a sharp jab maximizes the transient braking force recorded, though I was in [censored]? mode at the time.)

For the emissions test I was getting simulcast contradictory broken Chinglish/Mandarin instructions on throttle control from DMV minder (left ear) and gf (right ear) and I’m afraid I lost it a bit and started to giggle uncontrollably.

At that point the DMV guys suggested I take it for a run to get it warmed up (and me calmed down, presumably) and come back for another try, which I did, scaring the gf because, although I couldn’t drive fast in the centre of Tainan, I kept the revs high which “sounds scary”.

A bit before return I gave the car a quick “stage-one eco-tune”, ie I removed the air cleaner and hid it under the seat. Dunno how effective that was.

2nd try a DMV guy took it through (this is standard at the private test centre I usually go to) and was able to coax acceptable numbers from it.

So you CAN get an 80’s car through an “official” (sort of) Taiwan govt test, but it helps if you have the knack, and/or take a girl or two with you.


i am not telling you to do so because i guess it is illegal(it is here), but you can lower your co2 values a good bit by filling the car with a mix of 20 l petrol/2 litre carburator alcohol. works great. but don,t drive with it too long. fill up with ordinary petrol right after the car has passed MOT


Thanks. I had thought of that as a possibility, also acetone, or a butane bleed, but it isn't actually necessary at the moment because the private testing station just passed me anyway. I suppose its possible they might not next time around, though. Not sure I understood your recipe. Was that 20 petrol : 1 ethanol?

I'll try and tune it to run leaner. I havm't up to now because the plugs looked OK, and when I first got it there was a suspicion of pre-ignition, (which went away after messing around sucking water into the running engine) and I didn't want to risk detonation.

I could probably get or make a vacuum guage to help. I've also read of people making a mixture meter using a scrap heated oxygen sensor, though that sounds rather complicated.


Jep. 1-2 litres of alcohol for 20 litres of petrol. Depending how much you need to lower it.

 

[Ducked]

Alright, I'll bear it in mind. If I don't need it here it might be useful if I ever need to get an old car through inspection back in the UK (though old cars are getting scarce there due to a shameful govt. scrappage subsidy scheme for cars over 10 years old.)

Incidentally, since alcohol blended fuels are on sale in Europe and the UK, I'd rather doubt that putting some alcohol in your tank is illegal, though I suppose intent might feature in a prosecution.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: shDK
i am not telling you to do so because i guess it is illegal(it is here), but you can lower your co2 values a good bit by filling the car with a mix of 20 l petrol/2 litre carburator alcohol. works great. but don,t drive with it too long. fill up with ordinary petrol right after the car has passed MOT


Or, he could fix the actual issues that are causing the high readings.
New plugs, wires, ignition coil(s), and a timing adjustment usually fixes most issues that cause a vehicle to fail an emission test. Once you get past that, it's hard parts that have to be replaced, like convertors, valve stem oil seals, worn engine, etc.

BC.

 

[Ducked]

As in life, alcohol might not solve the problem but it may make it go away for an hour or two, and sometimes that's enough.

I'm not going to replace any non-consumable components unless I've got some reason to think they are faulty, and some way of telling if its done any good. At the moment I have neither.

Its likely the car needs a tune. I have a timing light, and the car has a dash revcounter.

At the moment I'd rather spend money on further aids to tuning / diagnosis, than on speculative "blind" component replacement.

Possibilities might include:-

Handheld dwell meter/tacho (had a Gunson one back in the UK but never used it much)

A Colourtune (used my brothers many years ago but wasn't very convinced by it)

A vacuum gauge (I initially thought I could perhaps use a water manometer, but if the numbers I see on the web (eg 22 inches of mercury) are typical it'd need to be about 8 metres tall, not impossible, but a lot of tubing, difficult to read, and not mobile)

A fuel/air meter based on a scrap oxygen electrode and a voltmeter. Thats an interesting DIY project but I don't have time for it at the moment.

Assuming I can get these and/or other gizmo's (not certain here) what would people recommend?

Incidentally engine replacement is very seldom a viable option in Taiwan. Until recently it was completely illegal. Now its legally possible, as long as its exactly the same model of engine, but the re-registration and other fees would probably cost as much as sourcing and fitting an engine, (assuming you could find one) and the Chinese form-filling and office-wandering would be a huge pain in the arse.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Ducked

A fuel/air meter based on a scrap oxygen electrode and a voltmeter. Thats an interesting DIY project but I don't have time for it at the moment.

Maybe you could just buy a cheap AFR gauge from a tuning parts company, then plug a scrap O2S in it. Some of the AFR gauges that people put in their car for decoration are dirt cheap and do display the mixture.

 

[Ducked]

Dunno if that's likely to be available here. I'd guess not, since there's almost no car DIY here.

Cultural thing, but if it could be considered bling, there might be a market for it.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it. I've seen some descriptions of a multi-LED voltage indicator to read the output from the O2 sensor, but I don't have time to try and make that at the moment. Apparently some multimeters are sensitive enough, but most load the circuit up too much.

 

[Ducked]

Does anyone know what cars (excluding specifically US models which aren't likely to be found in scrapyards here) have heated oxygen sensors of the type that I could perhaps use as a tuning aid?

I believe they tend to be three/four wire types.

Taiwan car market is mostly Japanese, with euro models (notably VW, Merc and BMW) as an upmarket alternative