wemay
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An 'updated website' that still only goes up to 2012 model year vehicles... come on man!
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Glad to see both Platinum and Ultra Platinum 0W-20 are dexos1 certified. Opens up some more dexos certified oils in this weight.
Originally Posted By: wemay
An 'updated website' that still only goes up to 2012 model year vehicles... come on man!
I agree, it has always amazed me how a huge, rich company like SOPUS (or XOM too) takes so long to get their website decently accurate and updated (PDS errors, typos, misleading info, etc.). All it takes is a BITOG proofreader to fix the problems, right?
An 'updated website' that still only goes up to 2012 model year vehicles... come on man!
I agree, it has always amazed me how a huge, rich company like SOPUS (or XOM too) takes so long to get their website decently accurate and updated (PDS errors, typos, misleading info, etc.). All it takes is a BITOG proofreader to fix the problems, right?
Originally Posted By: gonefishing
Glad to see both Platinum and Ultra Platinum 0W-20 are dexos1 certified. Opens up some more dexos certified oils in this weight.
For a while Ultra "lost" its "official" dexos1 certification, now it appears to have regained it, although the official dexos1 listing At This Link does not list it. Makes me wonder if the Pennzoil PDS writers have yet another big dumb error.
Another example of past errors was the former Pennzoil PDS that showed ALL grades having the idential pour points and flash points. Yeah right.
Glad to see both Platinum and Ultra Platinum 0W-20 are dexos1 certified. Opens up some more dexos certified oils in this weight.
For a while Ultra "lost" its "official" dexos1 certification, now it appears to have regained it, although the official dexos1 listing At This Link does not list it. Makes me wonder if the Pennzoil PDS writers have yet another big dumb error.
Another example of past errors was the former Pennzoil PDS that showed ALL grades having the idential pour points and flash points. Yeah right.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LoveOil
Pennzoil show in their video, how much more cleaner the pistons are compared to Mobil, Valvoline and Castrol... I wonder if all that extra cleaner (Calcium and/or Magnesium) is fighting the anti-wear additives.
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
The newer cleaners are purely ashless organics you will not see in a $25 VOA.
Note that the detergent packages have generally less calcium/magnesium.
This situation is similar to the reduction in ZDDP with the rise in ashless friction modifiers and anti-wear additives, components not detectable in $25 VOAs.
Pennzoil show in their video, how much more cleaner the pistons are compared to Mobil, Valvoline and Castrol... I wonder if all that extra cleaner (Calcium and/or Magnesium) is fighting the anti-wear additives.
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
The newer cleaners are purely ashless organics you will not see in a $25 VOA.
Note that the detergent packages have generally less calcium/magnesium.
This situation is similar to the reduction in ZDDP with the rise in ashless friction modifiers and anti-wear additives, components not detectable in $25 VOAs.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: wag123
From watching the video, one gets the impression that the oil is made ENTIRELY from GTL base oil. Can that be true?
No.
Co-base oils are added to improve the performance of the basic GTL base oil.
A "co-base" oil may consist of smaller percentages of GroupIV and GroupV oils as "helper" oils.
From watching the video, one gets the impression that the oil is made ENTIRELY from GTL base oil. Can that be true?
No.
Co-base oils are added to improve the performance of the basic GTL base oil.
A "co-base" oil may consist of smaller percentages of GroupIV and GroupV oils as "helper" oils.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
Its confusing to most of us. Stepping back, I can see how oil makers just want to maximize profit by telling their chemists "Use the cheapest base oils available, then put in enough cheap additives to just meet whatever specs we target. Then, we'll let the marketing department put eye candy colors and flashy ads together."
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
Its confusing to most of us. Stepping back, I can see how oil makers just want to maximize profit by telling their chemists "Use the cheapest base oils available, then put in enough cheap additives to just meet whatever specs we target. Then, we'll let the marketing department put eye candy colors and flashy ads together."
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
Its confusing to most of us. Stepping back, I can see how oil makers just want to maximize profit by telling their chemists "Use the cheapest base oils available, then put in enough cheap additives to just meet whatever specs we target. Then, we'll let the marketing department put eye candy colors and flashy ads together."
Please, no conspiracy theories.
The chemistry dept. has the responsibility to formulate and use the best components available.
Marketing has the responsibility to convince you to buy.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Websites, PDS', and marketing aside, let's don't get hung up on past additive technology and philosophy.
Its confusing to most of us. Stepping back, I can see how oil makers just want to maximize profit by telling their chemists "Use the cheapest base oils available, then put in enough cheap additives to just meet whatever specs we target. Then, we'll let the marketing department put eye candy colors and flashy ads together."
Please, no conspiracy theories.
The chemistry dept. has the responsibility to formulate and use the best components available.
Marketing has the responsibility to convince you to buy.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
True, we have to draw a line and 'trust' at some point.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Please, no conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy? Most businesses are run by selling the cheapest possible products for the mostest amount of $$. So yes, I guess business owners conspire with managers to make this happen.
Please, no conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy? Most businesses are run by selling the cheapest possible products for the mostest amount of $$. So yes, I guess business owners conspire with managers to make this happen.
I don't think Mola is trying to tell us that formulators make the best oil that current technology allows, ignoring cost. I would suggest they make a product to maintain their reputation (or enhance it) and exceed specifications, without making the product a money losing venture.
Compare a dexos1 compliant PU versus a dexos1 complaint Pennzoil dexos1 blend. I would suggest the former doesn't just barely meet the specifications it advertises. Nonetheless, I wish Pennzoil would do more to differentiate PU, since having the same specs as PP (and mostly the same as dexos1 blend) and a higher price isn't a good way to differentiate.
Compare a dexos1 compliant PU versus a dexos1 complaint Pennzoil dexos1 blend. I would suggest the former doesn't just barely meet the specifications it advertises. Nonetheless, I wish Pennzoil would do more to differentiate PU, since having the same specs as PP (and mostly the same as dexos1 blend) and a higher price isn't a good way to differentiate.
Pennzoil ultra does offer a 800,000 km lubrication warranty so I highly doubt they would pass of cheap stuff with bling bling marketing.
Imperial Oil and Petro-Canada offer an unlimited mileage warranty on even their conventionals.
They must be good then..
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The chemistry dept. has the responsibility to formulate and use the best components available.
Marketing has the responsibility to convince you to buy.
Obviously false statement. Not the "best", use whats good enough to meet specs. Cost is an issue. Yes, marketing must push it all as value statements to the consumer.
Raises an excellent point about compromise in formulation in this business. I always had the impression that Amsoil decided to "go all out" with all PAO base, best additives, etc., and just let the price be higher and hope for enough volume. Other motor oils obviously make other value vs. performance compromises.
The chemistry dept. has the responsibility to formulate and use the best components available.
Marketing has the responsibility to convince you to buy.
Obviously false statement. Not the "best", use whats good enough to meet specs. Cost is an issue. Yes, marketing must push it all as value statements to the consumer.
Raises an excellent point about compromise in formulation in this business. I always had the impression that Amsoil decided to "go all out" with all PAO base, best additives, etc., and just let the price be higher and hope for enough volume. Other motor oils obviously make other value vs. performance compromises.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Compare a dexos1 compliant PU versus a dexos1 complaint Pennzoil dexos1 blend. I would suggest the former doesn't just barely meet the specifications it advertises. Nonetheless, I wish Pennzoil would do more to differentiate PU, since having the same specs as PP (and mostly the same as dexos1 blend) and a higher price isn't a good way to differentiate.
Pennzoil is keeping the claims of cleaner pistons with PPU (Penn Plat Ultra) over PP. So there is the difference a consumer may pay extra for. I for one certainly want less black junk on the side of my pistons.
Compare a dexos1 compliant PU versus a dexos1 complaint Pennzoil dexos1 blend. I would suggest the former doesn't just barely meet the specifications it advertises. Nonetheless, I wish Pennzoil would do more to differentiate PU, since having the same specs as PP (and mostly the same as dexos1 blend) and a higher price isn't a good way to differentiate.
Pennzoil is keeping the claims of cleaner pistons with PPU (Penn Plat Ultra) over PP. So there is the difference a consumer may pay extra for. I for one certainly want less black junk on the side of my pistons.
It's not worth the $74 a jug they sell it for up here. I can get Motul for that and RP significantly cheaper, and much more easily, for that matter. Cleaner pistons isn't a huge reason to pay extra, if you ask me, considering we all know that even a conventional SN/GF-5 isn't exactly lacking in that regard.
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