MOTOR OIL “WEAR PROTECTION” RANKING LIST

[skip029]

I just thought it was a good read, not sure how scientific it is and these days gotta take everything you read with a grain of salt. Sorry to bring back this topic guys

The author 540Rat on another forum on backing up his test results and his real name, Rick Jackson:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/3327596-lars-and-540-rat.html


Poster 63mako says on page 2:

Talked to Lars via Email. We have been mislead by the OP with regards to Lars endorsement that ZDDP levels are irrelevant. I will not post the E-mail he sent me since it was a private correspondence but I will say the original post is misleading on multiple levels and comments were taken out of context similar to the test results.

One thing I can say is 540 Rat, Lars and I agree the testing is useful if taken as a comparative film strength test on new oil @ 230 degrees. I doubt Lars will post here.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The search is tedious.

That's another way of saying that you're lazy.


Your refusal to give us a conclusion and stand behind it is another way of saying you are technically inept. Only capable of regurgitating "feel good" group conclusion from this website.

Anyone can post links.

I've read through some of this, but I'm not going to read thru every back and forth of nonsense and old man's tales. There is no definite conclusion that says this test is useless. Why does ASTM have the test? Are you smarter than ASTM?

This test models a flat tappet cam rather well. And remember even with roller cams you still have some sliding.

Is it the only thing you should judge an oil on? NO. But it is a factor. Film strength is very important. Anti wear and EP is very important. Otherwise why worry about TBN.

Another case where following the heard and feeling good is more important than thinking for yourself.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette


I've read through some of this, but I'm not going to read thru every back and forth of nonsense and old man's tales. There is no definite conclusion that says this test is useless. Why does ASTM have the test? Are you smarter than ASTM?


From his page:

Quote:
I was very dissatisfied with the ASTM test procedures I reviewed. Some called for testing at 100*F (NOT 100*C), which is too COLD and is therefore NOT realistic for oil in a running engine. An ideal oil sump temperature range in a running engine is between 215*F and 250*F, though oil temps are not entirely uniform throughout the engine (more on that below). This range is hot enough to quickly boil off normal condensation rather than letting it evaporate over time, which can allow it to dilute the oil. And this range is also low enough to provide sufficient cooling for internal components, all of which are directly oil cooled, while at the same time staying below the onset of thermal breakdown in nearly all motor oils. Other ASTM tests called for testing at 150*C (302*F), which is too HOT and therefore also NOT realistic. Because every oil I’ve ever tested for the onset of thermal breakdown, would already be at or beyond the threshold of thermal breakdown at 302*F.

So, the Official ASTM test procedures I reviewed for my application, were basically worthless for finding out the truth when it comes to wear protection capability of motor oil at realistic temperatures. Being a perfectionist, I was not willing to accept sub-par test procedures. So, I developed my own test procedure at a realistic 230*F, that works extremely well with my test equipment, and produces accurate and repeatable results which are essential for meaningful comparisons between different motor oils.

Quote:
This test models a flat tappet cam rather well. And remember even with roller cams you still have some sliding.


He says:

Quote:
My testing subjects the oil to far more severe loading than even the most wicked flat tappet race engine ever could.



Quote:
Is it the only thing you should judge an oil on? NO. But it is a factor. Film strength is very important. Anti wear and EP is very important. Otherwise why worry about TBN.

Another case where following the heard and feeling good is more important than thinking for yourself.


If the pressures experienced are more severe than even the most insane flat tappet camshaft I'm not sure how it can subsequently noted as being particularly relevant.

That is, if the highest pressures experienced in your engine are 15,000psi, being concerned with how your oil holds up at 80,000psi for example seems a bit silly.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

From his page:


No, I'm not supporting everything this guy says.

I'm making the case that the test while not an end all to oil performance does mean something.

I read thru the BITOG threads on the subject of 4 ball and 1 arm bandit tests and find there is still disagreement about how much these tests mean.

It's not as clear cut as some say.

OK?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Your refusal to give us a conclusion and stand behind it is another way of saying you are technically inept. Only capable of regurgitating "feel good" group conclusion from this website.

In case reading the provided links was also "too tedious" for you, he's using a test that mimics extreme pressure additives testing and there are no extreme pressures in your engine.

Quote:

Anyone can post links.

Then why didn't you? Oh, that's right, because "the search is tedious." And when I did the dirty work for you, all of a sudden it was worth nothing to you.



Quote:
Why does ASTM have the test? Are you smarter than ASTM?

ASTM developed that test for gear oils, not for engine oils. It is the author of that so called "test" that claims to be smarter than ASTM.

 

[crazyoildude]

interesting...

 

[aquariuscsm]

I always enjoy posts about tests like these. They're interesting and a lot of fun to read....freezer tests,oven tests,timken bearing tests. I just find them fun and interesting!

 

[demarpaint]

 

[FetchFar]

You know, 540rat's test does raise an interesting question: If you are a chemist/tribologist, what quick bench tests can you devise that would predict how your oil performs in all the expensive official tests? (to make sure you've got it right)