New Pennzoil Website Updates, TDSheets

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
NOACK going from 7 to 11 means it evaporates easier, correct ?


Right. Noack is a % representing the reduction in weight via evaportation of a sample under high heat for a specified time period.


Here is a qoute from the Pennzoil Q&A on this site about PPU : " GTL in particular – provide very good volatility. “I’m talking about the hot spots in the engine where it can reach 400 to 600 degrees Fahrenheit,” he explained. “That’s enough to start to boil away or evaporate some of the lubricant molecules, where they go out the exhaust system. "

Oops, Pennzoil lied to us. The old data sheets which showed Pennz Ultra getting 7% volatility are gone, and we have the magical GTL PPU with a mediocre 11%.

 

[windeye]

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
NOACK going from 7 to 11 means it evaporates easier, correct ?


Right. Noack is a % representing the reduction in weight via evaportation of a sample under high heat for a specified time period.


Here is a qoute from the Pennzoil Q&A on this site about PPU : " GTL in particular – provide very good volatility. “I’m talking about the hot spots in the engine where it can reach 400 to 600 degrees Fahrenheit,” he explained. “That’s enough to start to boil away or evaporate some of the lubricant molecules, where they go out the exhaust system. "

Oops, Pennzoil lied to us. The old data sheets which showed Pennz Ultra getting 7% volatility are gone, and we have the magical GTL PPU with a mediocre 11%.


This is always the biggest question mark in my mind. They can not have it both ways. If GTL does provide a good base for low NOACK, what did Pennzoil do? Also the NOACK is 10.5% for Platinum, 1% lower. I don't, maybe it's in the error range of measurement?

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: windeye
This is always the biggest question mark in my mind. They can not have it both ways. If GTL does provide a good base for low NOACK, what did Pennzoil do? Also the NOACK is 10.5% for Platinum, 1% lower. I don't, maybe it's in the error range of measurement?


I think Clevy in a related thread supposed Pennz might be having trouble with batch variations. Another source of NOACK variations may come with the ASTM test itself, as I know Valvoline once sent a letter to PQIA saying the test is too sensitive to the equipment used and not reproducible enough. Who to believe....

 

[FetchFar]

On NOACK variability, whatever the source, maybe they should just average the results of 5 tests, or maybe some oil makers only report the BEST result of a batch of several tests to appear better.

 

[RGR]

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: RGR
Boy I am going to need a REAL good reason to not collect all the Platinum 10w-30 I can. The stuff looks like it would pump cold, low Noack, high flashpoint, unless I do cold starts at -30F what would I need anything else for year round?

I live near Denver too. Gets too cold here. Go with a 0w-20 or 0w-30 synthetic here. Any cold starts outdoors in the morning gets 0w-20 with me here,( a garaged 11 Camaro with direct injection gets 5w-30 dexos1.)


I don't see enough cold viscosity differences in the 0w's to justify them over 5w's. But my garage doesn't get below freezing (32F) even when it is -20F outside (about as cold as it got here this past winter).

And the car doesn't sit outside long enough while grocery shopping, or taking the kids to school, or whatever, to cool back down all the way.

So 10W would work for that car no problem. But still....it doesn't get

 

[FetchFar]

yeah, 10w-30 will work for a garaged vehicle. I guess a lot of us just try to optimize (lower) start up wear when cold.

 

[Gokhan]

I thought GTL with 4000 cP CCS @ -30 C had a NOACK around 2%.

Perhaps what's evaporating is the solvents in the additive package?

Interestingly, the Ultra Platinum has higher NOACK than the vanilla Platinum. Is it because they have the same base oil (100% GTL) but the Ultra Platinum has a higher concentration of certain additives?

 

[threeputtpar]

They're starting the new Euro oils off in the Platinum lineup? Looks like they didn't learn from their mistakes in the first go around with Euro oils.

Expect to see a couple of Euro oils in the Ultra Platinum lineup within the next 12 months, right after they don't achieve the sales they expected in the Platinum line up.

What, Platinum Euro isn't selling well? Well heck, lets start calling it Ultra and charge more for it and then customers will start buying it!

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I thought GTL with 4000 cP CCS @ -30 C had a NOACK around 2%.

Perhaps what's evaporating is the solvents in the additive package?

Interestingly, the Ultra Platinum has higher NOACK than the vanilla Platinum. Is it because they have the same base oil (100% GTL) but the Ultra Platinum has a higher concentration of certain additives?

Or could it be that this first-generation GTL technology fails the produce quality base stocks? It looks like it may be tailored toward producing cheap base stocks rather than quality base stocks.

Which makes me think: Could we really call the new Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Platinum Ultra a fully synthetic oil, given that their NOACK is borderline Group II?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What's the NOACK number of Acetone come to ? Anybody know ?

The boiling point of acetone is 56.2C.
The NOACK test is run at 250C.
I'd hazard a guess that the NOACK rating of acetone is 100%.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I thought GTL with 4000 cP CCS @ -30 C had a NOACK around 2%.

Perhaps what's evaporating is the solvents in the additive package?

Interestingly, the Ultra Platinum has higher NOACK than the vanilla Platinum. Is it because they have the same base oil (100% GTL) but the Ultra Platinum has a higher concentration of certain additives?

Or could it be that this first-generation GTL technology fails the produce quality base stocks? It looks like it may be tailored toward producing cheap base stocks rather than quality base stocks.

Which makes me think: Could we really call the new Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Platinum Ultra a fully synthetic oil, given that their NOACK is borderline Group II?

Also, claims by Shell that these new Pennzoil Platinum and Platinum Ultra GTL oils provide unsurpassed wear protection under Sequence IVA are mostly bogus, as GTL base stocks are almost entirely paraffinic and paraffinic base stocks provide by far the lowest wear protection among all base stocks because they have by far the lowest pressure - viscosity coefficient, which equivalently means by far the lowest oil-film strength.

 

[Brent_G]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I thought GTL with 4000 cP CCS @ -30 C had a NOACK around 2%.

Perhaps what's evaporating is the solvents in the additive package?

Interestingly, the Ultra Platinum has higher NOACK than the vanilla Platinum. Is it because they have the same base oil (100% GTL) but the Ultra Platinum has a higher concentration of certain additives?

Or could it be that this first-generation GTL technology fails the produce quality base stocks? It looks like it may be tailored toward producing cheap base stocks rather than quality base stocks.

Which makes me think: Could we really call the new Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Platinum Ultra a fully synthetic oil, given that their NOACK is borderline Group II?

Also, claims by Shell that these new Pennzoil Platinum and Platinum Ultra GTL oils provide unsurpassed wear protection under Sequence IVA are mostly bogus, as GTL base stocks are almost entirely paraffinic and paraffinic base stocks provide by far the lowest wear protection among all base stocks because they have by far the lowest pressure - viscosity coefficient, which equivalently means by far the lowest oil-film strength.


No full synthetic (or conventional) motor oil provides better wear protection than Pennzoil Platinum® and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology.[8] That’s because no other leading motor oil provides better protection from friction than Pennzoil Platinum® motor oils.[8]

While I know marketing loves to stretch the truth, if the claim was false BP/Mobil/Ashland and others would be disputing it.

The disclaimer states this -

*Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30

So we do know that in at least the 5W-30 flavor it did have the least wear in Sequence IVA. Yes it is one test and one weight but it isn't bogus.

 

[rikstaker]

Originally Posted By: Brent_G
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I thought GTL with 4000 cP CCS @ -30 C had a NOACK around 2%.

Perhaps what's evaporating is the solvents in the additive package?

Interestingly, the Ultra Platinum has higher NOACK than the vanilla Platinum. Is it because they have the same base oil (100% GTL) but the Ultra Platinum has a higher concentration of certain additives?

Or could it be that this first-generation GTL technology fails the produce quality base stocks? It looks like it may be tailored toward producing cheap base stocks rather than quality base stocks.

Which makes me think: Could we really call the new Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Platinum Ultra a fully synthetic oil, given that their NOACK is borderline Group II?

Also, claims by Shell that these new Pennzoil Platinum and Platinum Ultra GTL oils provide unsurpassed wear protection under Sequence IVA are mostly bogus, as GTL base stocks are almost entirely paraffinic and paraffinic base stocks provide by far the lowest wear protection among all base stocks because they have by far the lowest pressure - viscosity coefficient, which equivalently means by far the lowest oil-film strength.


No full synthetic (or conventional) motor oil provides better wear protection than Pennzoil Platinum® and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology.[8] That’s because no other leading motor oil provides better protection from friction than Pennzoil Platinum® motor oils.[8]

While I know marketing loves to stretch the truth, if the claim was false BP/Mobil/Ashland and others would be disputing it.

The disclaimer states this -

*Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30

So we do know that in at least the 5W-30 flavor it did have the least wear in Sequence IVA. Yes it is one test and one weight but it isn't bogus.


What is interesting is qsud 5w30 makes the same claim and what is more interesting is that pennzoil avoids comparing its oils to qsud.They are owned by shell but they do cannabilize each others sales.

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Brent_G

No full synthetic (or conventional) motor oil provides better wear protection than Pennzoil Platinum® and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology.[8] That’s because no other leading motor oil provides better protection from friction than Pennzoil Platinum® motor oils.[8]

While I know marketing loves to stretch the truth, if the claim was false BP/Mobil/Ashland and others would be disputing it.

The disclaimer states this -

*Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30

So we do know that in at least the 5W-30 flavor it did have the least wear in Sequence IVA. Yes it is one test and one weight but it isn't bogus.


They didn't say they had the least wear. They are simply defining "no better protection" as a pass score on IVA. thats all. Just carefully worded marketing hype here.

 

[Gokhan]

Well, reduction of contact friction and wear protection are related, but it's not a one-to-one relationship. You can have an oil with a very low contact friction but it may not have the best wear protection.

It also ignores the oil-film strength, which is equally important, entirely. I said GTL has the lowest oil-film strength but some esters seem to have even lower oil-film strengths.

I wonder if they use pure GTL or add some Group V (ester, AN, etc.). I am inclined to think it's pure GTL.

Coming back to friction, chances are that GTL has one of the lowest contact frictions of all base oils. Add some trinuclear moly to that -- you get very low friction and maximal contribution from contact friction to fuel economy. However, this doesn't mean that it provides more wear protection than other oils. That latter statement by Shell is more than likely bogus.

Most marketing material use 5W-30 because it's the most common viscosity grade.

It's probably an OK oil for longer OCIs. Nevertheless, I concur with others that the quality of Ultra seems to have gone down with the new PurePlus version. The Platinum Ultra version is probably no longer worth getting over the vanilla Platinum version. It certainly won't give you longer OCIs than the vanilla version because it seems to use the same base oil.

 

[Ram01]

Oh my so pppp lost a step then. Is Mobil 1 the better oil now ??? I'm scared

 

[Leonardo629]

why are there no xW-40 Euro offerings in the Ultra line up...and what is the difference between the new Ultra and Platinum?

 

[FetchFar]

Agreed, the Euro oils should be labelled "Ultra". They are meeting the toughest passenger car oil specs on the planet, MB 229, Porsche A40, BMW LL-01, etc. are the highest. Marketing should designate them as such.

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
why are there no xW-40 Euro offerings in the Ultra line up...and what is the difference between the new Ultra and Platinum?
Pennzoil still claims that Ultra cleans your engine better. We assume that still applies, unless they are misleading us.

 

[buster]

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure, there is a noticeable jump in volatility, but it's still a very good product. Assuming the claims about the IIIG/IVA test still stand.

What some are leaving out is the unique, and I believe proprietary detergent system, that they are using. As usual everyone gets caught up in one particular component and gets sidetracked. It's the entire package.

Pennzoil is using GTL because Shell invested in it. That's it.




If my next car happens to be a turbo, it's likely the oil I will use.

I'll try and find the video where Mark mentions the unique detergent additives.