These "all weather tires" vs performance snow tire

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Recent developments are for these "all weather" tires, of which the best known example is probably the Nokian WRG2 (and now the WRG3)

But of course there are others that cost much less, such as
Vredesetain Quatrac 3
Kumho Solus Vier
Falken EuroAll

Are these just performance winter tires in Europe being marketed as all-weather over here? I ask because I know that in some countries like Germany, they are really strict about this stuff, so how could a tire be approved for year-round use? Doesn't most of Europe frown on all-seasons, or is that stigma disappearing?

The all-weather tires do have UTQG ratings, though.

Since they also have the severe snow approval to be used as winter tires, is it OK to use a lower-than-original speed rating outside the winter season? I emailed Vredestein about this, and they said it's OK because it has the severe snow symbol (so the tire shops can treat it as a snow tire)
 
good luck actually finding any of those.
even the nokians are online only for me.
 
Buying online isn't a problem, and I am able to find both the Nokian and the Vreds
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Buying online isn't a problem, and I am able to find both the Nokian and the Vreds


yes and the prices
I found out it was the same price to buy 4 nokian wrg2 suv as it was to buy 4 snow tires on a second set of wheels.~~within 50$
 
I have gone to Germany a fair amount. I the Winter months all the cars have dedicated snow tires. I assume it's mandated.

Over here I believe in someone lives in an area with a serious Winter it's best to get dedicated snow tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
I have gone to Germany a fair amount. I the Winter months all the cars have dedicated snow tires. I assume it's mandated.

Over here I believe in someone lives in an area with a serious Winter it's best to get dedicated snow tires.


I live in one of the snowiest cities in the country and every snow storm the streets are littered with stuck cars on completely bald tires. People just don't realize.

The Nokian WRG2/3 appear to have a similar tread compound and pattern to the Vatiiva. While I'm a fan of dedicated snow tires, the Vatiiva were EXCELLENT in the snow and ice!
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Recent developments are for these "all weather" tires, of which the best known example is probably the Nokian WRG2 (and now the WRG3)

But of course there are others that cost much less, such as
Vredesetain Quatrac 3
Kumho Solus Vier
Falken EuroAll

Are these just performance winter tires in Europe being marketed as all-weather over here? I ask because I know that in some countries like Germany, they are really strict about this stuff, so how could a tire be approved for year-round use? Doesn't most of Europe frown on all-seasons, or is that stigma disappearing?

The all-weather tires do have UTQG ratings, though.

Since they also have the severe snow approval to be used as winter tires, is it OK to use a lower-than-original speed rating outside the winter season? I emailed Vredestein about this, and they said it's OK because it has the severe snow symbol (so the tire shops can treat it as a snow tire)


No, the tires you mentioned are marketed as All season in Europe as well.
In many european contries tires bearing symbol "M+S" are required by law in wintery conditions. Even though all season tyres are not very popular in Europe (most of us switch between dedicated summer and winter twice per year) there are some available (such as those you mentioned). Due to the M+S requirement some companies make all season tires for Europe such that they use winter tread pattern but more "summer-optimised" compound. Such as Falken AS200 or Bridgestone A001 (same tread as winter Bridg. LM-25 but different compound).
With such tires you can use lower speed rating (at least in Europe you can) because according to the law these are M+S = winter tires.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Buying online isn't a problem, and I am able to find both the Nokian and the Vreds


Some of the tires you listed aren't available in the US.

ie... the Falken & Kumho.

the Kumho, you'll have to go to Canada to order them.

The whole purpose of the all-season with mtn-snowflake are for customers that do not want to change out tires/wheels for the winter season, ie in Canada, you have the Quebec province having this law.
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Recent developments are for these "all weather" tires, of which the best known example is probably the Nokian WRG2 (and now the WRG3)

But of course there are others that cost much less, such as
Vredesetain Quatrac 3
Kumho Solus Vier
Falken EuroAll

Are these just performance winter tires in Europe being marketed as all-weather over here? I ask because I know that in some countries like Germany, they are really strict about this stuff, so how could a tire be approved for year-round use? Doesn't most of Europe frown on all-seasons, or is that stigma disappearing?

The all-weather tires do have UTQG ratings, though.

Since they also have the severe snow approval to be used as winter tires, is it OK to use a lower-than-original speed rating outside the winter season? I emailed Vredestein about this, and they said it's OK because it has the severe snow symbol (so the tire shops can treat it as a snow tire)

As far as I know, being from Europe, spending lot of time in Germany, Austria, Switzerland etc, average European driver never drove on All-Season tire. It was always Summer tires for summer, dedicated winter tire for winter.
For example, in Bosnia, on 15th of November you MUST have winter tire (no [censored] all-season tires) until 15th of April!
If you do not have winter tires, you MUST have chains, BUT police can still kick you out from traffic if they think tires are not suitable for road conditions.
So, my answer is: this is first time I hear that most of Europe drives on all-seasons.
However, there is a trend lately, that was started by GoodYear, where they have these all-weather tires. However, I think drivers overthere are educated enough to figure out that scam.
 
Originally Posted By: orso
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Recent developments are for these "all weather" tires, of which the best known example is probably the Nokian WRG2 (and now the WRG3)

But of course there are others that cost much less, such as
Vredesetain Quatrac 3
Kumho Solus Vier
Falken EuroAll

Are these just performance winter tires in Europe being marketed as all-weather over here? I ask because I know that in some countries like Germany, they are really strict about this stuff, so how could a tire be approved for year-round use? Doesn't most of Europe frown on all-seasons, or is that stigma disappearing?

The all-weather tires do have UTQG ratings, though.

Since they also have the severe snow approval to be used as winter tires, is it OK to use a lower-than-original speed rating outside the winter season? I emailed Vredestein about this, and they said it's OK because it has the severe snow symbol (so the tire shops can treat it as a snow tire)


No, the tires you mentioned are marketed as All season in Europe as well.
In many european contries tires bearing symbol "M+S" are required by law in wintery conditions. Even though all season tyres are not very popular in Europe (most of us switch between dedicated summer and winter twice per year) there are some available (such as those you mentioned). Due to the M+S requirement some companies make all season tires for Europe such that they use winter tread pattern but more "summer-optimised" compound. Such as Falken AS200 or Bridgestone A001 (same tread as winter Bridg. LM-25 but different compound).
With such tires you can use lower speed rating (at least in Europe you can) because according to the law these are M+S = winter tires.

You forgot one thing. In countries that have strong winters (Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, North Italy, parts of France, Sweden, Norway, etc) except M+S you have to have snow flake sign. If you do not have snow flake sign, when it comes to law, it is like driving on summer tires.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

However, there is a trend lately, that was started by GoodYear, where they have these all-weather tires. However, I think drivers overthere are educated enough to figure out that scam.


I guess people paying pretty money for Nokian WR G2/3 in the USA and Canada are not aware of the scam with all-weather tires.

Krzys
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: edyvw

However, there is a trend lately, that was started by GoodYear, where they have these all-weather tires. However, I think drivers overthere are educated enough to figure out that scam.


I guess people paying pretty money for Nokian WR G2/3 in the USA and Canada are not aware of the scam with all-weather tires.

Krzys

I did not know that Nokian WR G2 are all-weather tire?
It does not look that way, and it has snow flake symbol, which means it is dedicated winter tire. Even Nokian says it is winter tire.
On the note of all-season tires, yeah I think it is just compromise for people who are not willing to pay to have proper tires, or just do not care. When it comes to Nokian GR3, yeah i think it is waste of money. It is compromise. It will not offer winter performance like Blizzak LM-60, nor it will offer performance in the summer like let's say Continental DW or Michelin Pilot Primacy.
Few days ago I saw Audi S4 3.0T with Continental DWS tires. I am sorry, but I cannot figure out reasoning behind that, to have tire that is compromise, on such a car.
 
Quote:
You forgot one thing. In countries that have strong winters (Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, North Italy, parts of France, Sweden, Norway, etc) except M+S you have to have snow flake sign. If you do not have snow flake sign, when it comes to law, it is like driving on summer tires.


I didn't know that. I know the snowflake in the mountain symbol means that the tire passed some snow traction tests. Thanks for the info. Actualy my last winter tires were Continental TS790 and they had only M+S but no snowflake. It seems I was lucky I was never checked by police when driving abroad
smile.gif
 
The manufacturer can rate it for M+S but unless it has this, it's not a true snow tire
mud%20and%20snow.jpg


The OE Hankook Optimo H725s on my Focus were "M+S" ... but not a true snow tires and pretty horrible in the snow.

I bought a set of Cooper Lifeliner GLS tires to replace those (as a summer tire). Those, too, are rated M+s. A friend of mine bought them and has them on his car - while they are decent in the snow, hardpacked snow and ice they don't have much traction.
 
Originally Posted By: orso
Quote:
You forgot one thing. In countries that have strong winters (Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, North Italy, parts of France, Sweden, Norway, etc) except M+S you have to have snow flake sign. If you do not have snow flake sign, when it comes to law, it is like driving on summer tires.


I didn't know that. I know the snowflake in the mountain symbol means that the tire passed some snow traction tests. Thanks for the info. Actualy my last winter tires were Continental TS790 and they had only M+S but no snowflake. It seems I was lucky I was never checked by police when driving abroad
smile.gif


Are you sure? I had TS790 and TS 810 on Octavia, both had snow flake.
Yeah, in many countries snow flake is BIG deal. I know that many police officers are going to check pattern, but in Germany in particular, you could have an issue. I know also, god forbid, if you have an accident in Germany, that could play huge role with police, insurance etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The manufacturer can rate it for M+S but unless it has this, it's not a true snow tire
mud%20and%20snow.jpg


The OE Hankook Optimo H725s on my Focus were "M+S" ... but not a true snow tires and pretty horrible in the snow.

I bought a set of Cooper Lifeliner GLS tires to replace those (as a summer tire). Those, too, are rated M+s. A friend of mine bought them and has them on his car - while they are decent in the snow, hardpacked snow and ice they don't have much traction.

That is my point. Then if they are very good in snow (which I think Nokian WR G3 are) they are horrible in warm weather. It is not only pattern, it is also compound. There is no way tire will perform well in ice if compound is to hard.
I live on 6,800ft. Have on CC Blizzak LM-60 for winter and Michelin PSS for summer. Every snow storm, when I try to get to ski resorts around I-70 in Colorado, to ski on fresh powder, there are issues with drivers on all season tires. I learned lesson early, so I always take back roads during snow storms. But there is big talk in Colorado where they going to change laws and probably require chains for drivers without dedicated winter tires during snow weather. This year was bad, I think every snow storm they had to close down Vail pass (11,500ft) because someone would get stuck etc. So I would say some changes are coming.
I have on Tiguan during summer Continental DWS, and during winter Blizzak WS-70. While DWS can do Ok in few inches, there is no way they could match dedicated winter tires in very cold weather, deep snow, slush, ice. However, when it gets warm, you could feel how soft they are.
So, I yet to see tire manufacturer that will provide performance of winter tire in winter and performance of summer tire in summer, with good longevity in one tire.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Every snow storm, when I try to get to ski resorts around I-70 in Colorado, to ski on fresh powder, there are issues with drivers on all season tires. I learned lesson early, so I always take back roads during snow storms. But there is big talk in Colorado where they going to change laws and probably require chains for drivers without dedicated winter tires during snow weather. This year was bad, I think every snow storm they had to close down Vail pass (11,500ft) because someone would get stuck etc. So I would say some changes are coming.


Don't say that too loud. There are many people here that say we are foolish for buying dedicated snow tires because all seasons work 100% of the time. Especially with an AWD vehicle .

I'll stick to all seasons for summer and dedicated winter tires for winter.

My Cherokee even gets studded and siped all terrains for winter.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Every snow storm, when I try to get to ski resorts around I-70 in Colorado, to ski on fresh powder, there are issues with drivers on all season tires. I learned lesson early, so I always take back roads during snow storms. But there is big talk in Colorado where they going to change laws and probably require chains for drivers without dedicated winter tires during snow weather. This year was bad, I think every snow storm they had to close down Vail pass (11,500ft) because someone would get stuck etc. So I would say some changes are coming.


Don't say that too loud. There are many people here that say we are foolish for buying dedicated snow tires because all seasons work 100% of the time. Especially with an AWD vehicle .

I'll stick to all seasons for summer and dedicated winter tires for winter.

My Cherokee even gets studded and siped all terrains for winter.

I do not mind saying that, especially if someone with all-season tires drives behind me during snowy weather.
I have winter tire too on AWD car. I saw sooooo many AWD cars, especially pick-ups this winter in the ditch because they "think" they are good with just A/S tires.
I was stuck this winter on Hoosier pass (12,435ft) behind Land Cruiser during blizzard just because guy thought he is ok with Michelins A/S and mighty LC.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So, I yet to see tire manufacturer that will provide performance of winter tire in winter and performance of summer tire in summer, with good longevity in one tire.

You never will either, but alot of people never buy anything but mediocre all seasons and really don't care about warm weather handling other than wet traction. So a slightly tuned mediocre all season that can get the snow flake rating is a winner for them if they have to buy winter tires by law.
Hankook has the Optimo 4S which has a 600 wear rating and the snowflake at a decent price. I almost bought a set for the Tracker as it will be done in a couple years and I didn't want to buy two sets of tires for it. Dry handling is way down on the list of priorities for the Tracker, so I ended up with some new old stock X-ice's for it. I think they will last long enough, even used year round.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So, I yet to see tire manufacturer that will provide performance of winter tire in winter and performance of summer tire in summer, with good longevity in one tire.

You never will either, but alot of people never buy anything but mediocre all seasons and really don't care about warm weather handling other than wet traction. So a slightly tuned mediocre all season that can get the snow flake rating is a winner for them if they have to buy winter tires by law.
Hankook has the Optimo 4S which has a 600 wear rating and the snowflake at a decent price. I almost bought a set for the Tracker as it will be done in a couple years and I didn't want to buy two sets of tires for it. Dry handling is way down on the list of priorities for the Tracker, so I ended up with some new old stock X-ice's for it. I think they will last long enough, even used year round.

But point is, that traction is not all, or I would say, it is not number 1 problem. Problem is how to STOP on icy roads, snowy roads etc.
All cars that I saw this winter in accidents could not stop properly, or they lost lateral traction and ended up in a ditch. Those in ditch were usually AWD, mostly pick-up's.
 
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