Temp sender is a liar...thank you Scangauge

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Starting earlier this week, I began to notice occasional unusual, and unlikely coolant temp readings via my ScangaugeII. For example, I'd drive the truck around a while, and it would read between about 170*F and 185*F on a warm day (70*F+), and be bouncing all over the place. It's not a stuck open t-stat, since it does sometimes read correctly and show the t-stat opening. I really caught it the other morning when it jumped from 160*F to 190*F in one refresh of the SGII (2 second refresh rate). It had been running for 20 minutes, so I knew 160*F was [censored]. Busted. I'm thinking that sort of behavior can only be the coolant temp sender. Planning on replacing it tomorrow with a Motorcraft. The original made it 12 years and 151K miles, so I'll go with it again.

Of course, this whole time, the temp gauge was sitting right in the middle. A supposedly 30*F change in temp over 2 seconds = dead middle, everything is normal on the gauge! How informative! 160*F-210*F = middle. No CEL because it reads within a believable range for the computer. Runs fine, but is probably hurting my fuel economy. I would have no idea if it wasn't for the Scangauge.

I am happy with the life of the part, I just wish Fords didn't try to hide problems like some wounded animal that doesn't want to show weakness. Thankfully the SGII doesn't lie.
 
Their oil pressure gauges are also fake. It's because people would complain about the temperature and oil pressure going up and down ...
 
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For Ford
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Ford does some strange things. They could have saved a lot of money if they'd just printed the needle on there instead of having a separate part.
 
FoMoCo temperature gauges/sender have been like this for decades. It was done to stop customers from worrying/bothering service departments about temp concerns. In service manuals there are temp/resistance charts, and there is a wide plateau in the midrange that remains unchanged over a good 20-30F.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I'm thinking that sort of behavior can only be the coolant temp sender.

Thankfully the SGII doesn't lie.


the scangauge is reading data from the PCM or ECM (engine computer) that's all it knows.
I know for sure GM does this i would imagine ford is the same... your temperature sensor in the head reports to the engine computer. The engine computer always knows what the temperature is at any given time which is what really matters, and it sends data to your instrument cluster on your dash telling the gauges what to report. your gauges (oil, coolant, rpm) do not read anything from those respective sensors, they only do what the engine computer tells it to do. so it's not your gauges doing the lieing, it's the engine computer. your coolant temp is actually jumping around 30° could be possible under certain conditions and a slow to respond thermostat. it could also be a misread bty the scanguage, don't completely trust an aftermarket device to infalably read data accurately every moment.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I believe almost all manufacturers do the same thing.


I routinely hook a mechanical oil gauge or a real voltmeter into my service vans when diagnosing stuff. Since 2000 or so they have been quite accurate, if heavily sedated.

They go wacky at high mileages and it is almost always the sending unit or a ground somewhere...
 
I noticed this on a 99 Cavalier. The coolant temperature was moving by 25-30F as measured with an infrared thermometer, but the needle just sat still. It didn't start to move unless the temperature was getting high.
I tried unplugging the sender, and the needle still sat there for 20 more seconds.
Kind of annoying, when you're trying to teach a teenager to watch their gauges proactively for early warning signs, and then you find the gauges are programmed to defy this.
The Ford oil pressure gauges are outrageous, I hope people didn't pay extra for that feature, if so they got ripped off.
If manufacturers want to go back to lights, then they should just do that. It irritates me when they lull people into believing they have a gauge and it turns out to be lying to them.
 
Originally Posted By: armos
I noticed this on a 99 Cavalier. The coolant temperature was moving by 25-30F as measured with an infrared thermometer, but the needle just sat still. It didn't start to move unless the temperature was getting high.
I tried unplugging the sender, and the needle still sat there for 20 more seconds.
Kind of annoying, when you're trying to teach a teenager to watch their gauges proactively for early warning signs, and then you find the gauges are programmed to defy this.
The Ford oil pressure gauges are outrageous, I hope people didn't pay extra for that feature, if so they got ripped off.
If manufacturers want to go back to lights, then they should just do that. It irritates me when they lull people into believing they have a gauge and it turns out to be lying to them.

Whats REALLY stupid is the Mercury Marauder had a factory gauge pod with "AutoMeter" Oil and Volt gauges.
Fake as any other Ford gauge. Only good thing is they are standard 2 1/16 gauges so easily replaced.
 
Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I'm thinking that sort of behavior can only be the coolant temp sender.

Thankfully the SGII doesn't lie.


the scangauge is reading data from the PCM or ECM (engine computer) that's all it knows.
I know for sure GM does this i would imagine ford is the same... your temperature sensor in the head reports to the engine computer. The engine computer always knows what the temperature is at any given time which is what really matters, and it sends data to your instrument cluster on your dash telling the gauges what to report. your gauges (oil, coolant, rpm) do not read anything from those respective sensors, they only do what the engine computer tells it to do. so it's not your gauges doing the lieing, it's the engine computer. your coolant temp is actually jumping around 30° could be possible under certain conditions and a slow to respond thermostat. it could also be a misread bty the scanguage, don't completely trust an aftermarket device to infalably read data accurately every moment.


That's what I meant by the SGII doesn't lie...it's giving me the actual reading the computer is getting, not just showing "middle." The SGII revealed that the coolant temp sender is sometimes giving erratic readings that are in no way possible. I never would have noticed what was going on without it, as once the factory "gauge" is within its wide range of happy, it stays right there in the middle.

I haven't gotten around to replacing it yet. The parts department at the closest dealer was closed Sat, and I had other things to do, so it got put on the back burner, but that may have been a good thing. I ended up finding a Motorcraft sensor on Rockauto that was on closeout for a little over $4. $7 and change after shipping.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I believe almost all manufacturers do the same thing.

I agree with that belief but I admit it's a belief based on the data points of our Windstar and Accord and other random comments I've read over the years. Neither rarely never move off of center after warmup and Scangauge varies 180 to 195.
Kevin
 
As a point of contention, you should consider that the placement of the sender in relation the the radiator and thermostat might be in play too. The coolant, if measured in the right place could very well be jumping from 160 to 190F.
 
Could be possible, but doesn't jive with what the truck has typically shown on the gauge. Usually once it's up to 190*F+, it just stays there. I can usually see the t-stat open on the Scangauge as it will go up to 197*F, then drop to 184*F-188*F, then stabilize at 190*F-193*F. In addition to the 160*F-190*F jump it did that one day (and hasn't done again), after driving it a while, the temp sometimes (but not always) drops from the 190s to something that seems unlikely for running for 30+ minutes, like 180*F or thereabouts, sometimes even in the 170s. Possible, maybe, but not likely for this particular truck which never cooled to below 188*F before once fully warm. Right now, the sender just seems highly suspect.

I got the new Motorcraft sender...it was packed 6/14/99...yes 1999! It's actually older than the truck is by almost three years. No wonder this was on closeout! Ford superseded the part number at least twice, maybe three times.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
I believe almost all manufacturers do the same thing.


All of my vehicles have accurate temperature gauges.
 
Nissan does the same thing. Anything between about 160 and 220 the needle stays dead center. At 230 the needle moves up to 3/4.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
All of my vehicles have accurate temperature gauges.
Can you list your vehicles? Which scanner do you use to verify that gauge is reporting the accurate temperature?
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Whats REALLY stupid is the Mercury Marauder had a factory gauge pod with "AutoMeter" Oil and Volt gauges.
Fake as any other Ford gauge. Only good thing is they are standard 2 1/16 gauges so easily replaced.
Tell me about it, brother. (see my sig)

Oil pressure gauges in both mine and the xwife's Marauders were replaced a long time ago with actual working gauges. Pressure will read about 100 on a cold start, and about 25 on hot idle.

I guess too many people can't figure out that hot oil is thinner than cold oil and seeing that much variation scares them, so Ford decided to install gauges that just say "Everything is normal" all the time.
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Interestingly, the gauge in my 2001 GMC Safari work van actually functions. Maybe GMC owners are not as brain-dead as Ford owners...
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