VW's not all bad just abused...

[Thermo1223]

Doing some side work for a coworker. Mostly because I just don't like seeing VW's mistreated.

2000 Golf 2.0 AEG 166k miles

I know it applies to all cars really but VW's are more finnicky to begin with and then add some abuse.

Misfires galore, poor idle, bogging. The fact that it has a deafening exhaust is the first clue some kid just beat it to death.

The good part it is a manual, that is one failure out of the equation.

I just redid the whole ignition minus the coil since it was still good. Oil change soon now that it is running right. Cleaned the MAF but still not 100% sure it is ok. Replaced the SAI pump as well. Still need to order a new PCV hose, thermostat, & some gaskets.

Also need a new upstream 02 Sensor.

I see now why people love to hate on VW because not maintained and when using improper parts you get the POS it was.

I didn't take pics of the old plugs but they weren't even the right kind.

These are new correct plugs

This is what I pulled...they were Autolite brand platinums.

I used plugs look the same, being a waste spark system it just couldn't handle the abuse. I honestly don't even know how long there were in either but it sure looked like a long time.

I still need to adapt the throttle body back to normal since it idles a little high.

 

[bigjl]

Well in the UK VWs have a great brand image but are less than faultless.
Just that when VAG products have issues the press seem to almost forget about them.

There are many just as good products out there. Especially when you consider the Japanese and Korean brands.

 

[bullwinkle]

The older ones I had were kind of weak-major rust issues, HG troubles, just not very well built. Maybe they've improved, but I still hear enough horror stories to avoid them.

 

[SF0059]

The problem with VW is that they require proper maintenance like high end German cars but people treat them like Hondas. Thus people think they are unreliable when it is often times a case of owner neglect much like your example.

I've owned a Jetta, an A4 and now the A6 and have never had any unusual reliability issues... because I take care of them.

 

[kschachn]

So what you are saying is that you have to be proactive, and replace a lot of parts before they fail so you are not stranded. And you are saying that a Honda would not need these parts replaced nearly as soon as a VW will.

And you are saying that "taking care" of your car means replacing items before they break, because they will break, and before a similar item would break on a Honda.

Mind you, this scenario is identical if you replace "VW" with "BMW", and "Honda" with "Toyota".


Originally Posted By: SF0059
The problem with VW is that they require proper maintenance like high end German cars but people treat them like Hondas. Thus people think they are unreliable when it is often times a case of owner neglect much like your example.

I've owned a Jetta, an A4 and now the A6 and have never had any unusual reliability issues... because I take care of them.

 

[stephen9666]

A decent number of people make the "maintain your VW and they'll be fine" argument.

However, no amount of transmission flushing or oil changing will prevent certain things, like the electrical problems that plague some VWs.

Having said that, the good driving dynamics and high-quality interior were enough to convince me to buy my 2010 Jetta. It drives so well and the interior is so nice. I'll take some questionable reliability in exchange for those. My Hyundai Sonata that the Jetta replaced wasn't that reliable and had horrible driving dynamics.

 

[Thermo1223]

Honestly there is no electrical problems anymore...really there isn't.

For the MKIV(1999.5-2005) era I'll agree, those had issues. These days they have no more issues than any other make from my experience. In fact Chevy is the worst on my list from a previously owned Envoy.

 

[jeepman3071]

I'll never understand people who defend VW. The argument that "they are very reliable, they just need lots of maintenance" is silly. Servicing a car is maintaining it. A Mercedes-Benz or BMW needs lots of maintenance, but they are still well built. Having to replace a bunch of parts at certain intervals so they don't leave you stranded isn't servicing, that is fixing something that isn't well designed.

I know people with newer Jettas who are having trouble with their MANUAL transmissions. We all know the automatics are not reliable, but how can a manual transmission be unreliable? Ask my co-worker who has had his 2012 Jetta at the dealer 6 times already. My sister's '01 Jetta burned 1 quart of oil a WEEK, and the transmission stopped dead in its tracks at 101k miles. The check engine light was off a total of 3 days she owned the car. Its not like it was abused either, when she bought it there was a folder of dealer service receipts in the glove box documenting its service record. There is a reason most shops around here won't touch VW and Audi cars.

Chevy takes the cake for electrical problems, I'll definitely give you that, but I still don't think VW is as reliable as they claim to be.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Honestly there is no electrical problems anymore...really there isn't.

For the MKIV(1999.5-2005) era I'll agree, those had issues. These days they have no more issues than any other make from my experience.

 

[hattaresguy]

I don't like VW's and that includes Audi's. Well I like Audi's they are just poorly built.

Having worked on all the German cars Porsche and Mercedes are the best, BMW is second, VW/Audi (same thing) is a distant third.


VW has a hard on for silly things like plastic cooling system parts that require the removal of the engine to replace. Lots of poor engineering designs compared to the better German cars. Audi for example still uses timing belts which is silly on a premium car. Mercedes and BMW do not, so hence I don't have to remove the ENTIRE front end on an S550 to change out the T belt. Audi also pulls a reverse Porsche and sticks the engine way up front for some silly FWD biased reason.

The Jetta and Golf I had in HS and early college were both engineering junk compared to my Mercedes or the Camry they replaced. The Camry was three times the car of that the Jetta was. Toyota in the early and mid 90's was at the top of their game and the quality of the wiring, hoses, engineering and servicing layout put that East German junker to shame.

I don't mind putting up with the German idiosyncrasies on a premium car that is rewarding in many ways to own and drive, but not on a cheap daily driver.

 

[antiqueshell]

I've owned many VW's and none have had any electrical issues and both my current VWs are pretty old and have significantly over 120k/ 160k miles

Too many internet rumor mills generators.

My VWs including a 1996 VW Golf GL and 1984 VW Rabbit GTI have been MORE reliable than the Hondas I have owned.


Plus as far as maintenance goes both cars are exceedingly simple and inexpensive to work on. Parts are plentiful, and you can get high quality OEM parts are very low prices on line.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


Too many internet rumor mills generators.



But also too many fanboys in denial.

Our Beetle has had many electrical problems. My Jetta with only 45k miles has a failing door lock module. My friend has a Sportwagon that has had more than one of the door lock modules replaced.

 

[garlicbreadman]

not all bad, but mostly bad whether abused or not. Just look at forums, car complaint websites and car review sites such as consumer reports. I almost bought a GTI and then decided not to take that risk of owning VW.

 

[SF0059]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666


But also too many fanboys in denial.

Our Beetle has had many electrical problems. My Jetta with only 45k miles has a failing door lock module. My friend has a Sportwagon that has had more than one of the door lock modules replaced.


Not a fanboy, just pointing out that VWs are not as terrible as everyone makes them out to be. Yes, in the late 90s to early 00s there were some electrical issues, but those have been largely rectified.

So having a failing door lock module at 45k makes a car unreliable? I had a LDW camera go out on my Honda with 11k. I guess that makes Honda's steaming piles of carp using your logic?

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So what you are saying is that you have to be proactive, and replace a lot of parts before they fail so you are not stranded. And you are saying that a Honda would not need these parts replaced nearly as soon as a VW will.

And you are saying that "taking care" of your car means replacing items before they break, because they will break, and before a similar item would break on a Honda.

Mind you, this scenario is identical if you replace "VW" with "BMW", and "Honda" with "Toyota".


I'm not saying that you need to proactively just replace a bunch of parts to keep it going. I'm saying that without abuse, most VWs will last a long time with NORMAL maintenance. I find it interesting that the majority of people who VAG-bash have not owned any. They always reference a buddy or co-worker's car.

I'm not saying that VAG is without faults. I'm just saying they are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Save your vitriol for GM's ignition switches

.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: stephen9666


But also too many fanboys in denial.

Our Beetle has had many electrical problems. My Jetta with only 45k miles has a failing door lock module. My friend has a Sportwagon that has had more than one of the door lock modules replaced.


Not a fanboy, just pointing out that VWs are not as terrible as everyone makes them out to be. Yes, in the late 90s to early 00s there were some electrical issues, but those have been largely rectified.

So having a failing door lock module at 45k makes a car unreliable? I had a LDW camera go out on my Honda with 11k. I guess that makes Honda's steaming piles of carp using your logic?

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So what you are saying is that you have to be proactive, and replace a lot of parts before they fail so you are not stranded. And you are saying that a Honda would not need these parts replaced nearly as soon as a VW will.

And you are saying that "taking care" of your car means replacing items before they break, because they will break, and before a similar item would break on a Honda.

Mind you, this scenario is identical if you replace "VW" with "BMW", and "Honda" with "Toyota".


I'm not saying that you need to proactively just replace a bunch of parts to keep it going. I'm saying that without abuse, most VWs will last a long time with NORMAL maintenance. I find it interesting that the majority of people who VAG-bash have not owned any. They always reference a buddy or co-worker's car.

I'm not saying that VAG is without faults. I'm just saying they are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Save your vitriol for GM's ignition switches

.


I was going to stay out of this one until I read your goofy comment. I will take anything GM makes over VW anyday. It is a poor decision to make a genearalization based off one car, but my 02 Jetta TDI was by far the worst car I have ever owned. It recieved more than then the required maintenance and love, in fact at the time I owned that I had the 2000 Trans Am WS6, a 1996 LT1 Z28 with 190,000 miles on it and an 89 GMC 1 ton used to tow my trailer. The TDI required more love than all three of them combined. Mind you the Trans Am and Camaro spend lots of time getting hammered on at the Track. 11 and 12 second 1/4 mile cars. I like the driving dynamics of Grand Prix better. I had that Jetta for 80,000 miserable miles, I would have rather had my 86 Omni GLH back. On to the list... 1 automtic transmission, 2 sets of for front wheel bearings, 4 neutral park saftey switches, 1 set of glow plugs, 1 set of injectors, 1 injector wiring harness, 2 instances of carbon buildup in the intake, 3 window switches, the parking lights would come on when it rained and stuff I am forgetting.
So while people will make large sweeping generalizatons about cars with no knowledge, I can tell you this, my time with VW was not well recieved. When people ask me what I think about them, I tell them about mine. I also tell them they have to make their own decision.

 

[SF0059]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

I was going to stay out of this one until I read your goofy comment.


That is what it was meant to be, goofy.

I appreciate your thoughts. You, unlike many people posting here, actually have first hand experience to draw from (whether positive or negative) which adds validity to your argument.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Save your vitriol for GM's ignition switches

Vitriol? Hardly, I was commenting on your post that said:

Originally Posted By: SF0059
The problem with VW is that they require proper maintenance like high end German cars but people treat them like Hondas. Thus people think they are unreliable when it is often times a case of owner neglect much like your example.

I've owned a Jetta, an A4 and now the A6 and have never had any unusual reliability issues... because I take care of them.


It's that thinking, similar to most people who own a BMW, where "you have issues because you didn't proactively replace X, Y and Z". It has not been my experience that in order to keep a functioning Honda or Toyota I have to be "in the know" about what is going to fail and make sure I replace it before it fails just so the vehicle won't strand me on the highway.

I mean, I can't tell you how many websites are dedicated to specific issues with German cars. Every time I have something fail it is billed as a "known" problem with the car or engine.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: ls1mike

I was going to stay out of this one until I read your goofy comment.


That is what it was meant to be, goofy.

Roger that!

Hard to convey that kind of stuff on the net.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: stephen9666


But also too many fanboys in denial.

Our Beetle has had many electrical problems. My Jetta with only 45k miles has a failing door lock module. My friend has a Sportwagon that has had more than one of the door lock modules replaced.


Not a fanboy, just pointing out that VWs are not as terrible as everyone makes them out to be. Yes, in the late 90s to early 00s there were some electrical issues, but those have been largely rectified.

So having a failing door lock module at 45k makes a car unreliable? I had a LDW camera go out on my Honda with 11k. I guess that makes Honda's steaming piles of carp using your logic?


The door lock module failures in MarkV vehicles are an example showing that the claims of electrical issues being "largely rectified" could be pretty dubious.

My vehicles from brands like Nissan and Chevy have had fewer issues.

There are reasons to like VWs, which I've already noted. However, like other brands, there are die-hard dubbers who can't recognize that the vehicles have shortcomings. I won't try to say with a straight face that VW reliability issues are a thing of the past. Talk to me in 10 years and we will see how things have turned out for VW.

 

[Thermo1223]

Most of what I will say has been touched on but every manufacture uses plastic parts whether it's the cooling system or any other engine function. VW's is not alone in that and failing them for that would be like failing the auto industry as a whole.

It is not about proactively replacing parts, just using the right ones. The auto parts business conveys using the cheapest part possible to get the job done. Do that on any higher end car and you will "get what you paid for".

I've had personal experience with no less than 3 VW's and many more friend's cars. Electrical issues were few & far from keeping the car running. Poor maintenance and in some cases shade tree fixes were what caused a lot of issues.

GM & Chrysler are at the top of my list for electrical problems. My Envoy's headlights would radomly flicker for no reason, really noticable dims as well. A friends Trailblazer has had the cluster turn off & on randomly and now the fuel gauge or odometer don't work. My FIL's 2011 Caravan steering wheel buttons do not work unless you mash them with enough force to break them. At $70 per switch($140 total) it is not something he cares about enough right now. His wife's Escape has had weird ignition issues since day one, luckily it seemed to manifest in a bad throttle body so far and was covered under warranty.

So in my eyes VW's are more reliable than anything else I've owned save Subaru.

It is true most people just go by rumor, not actual facts.