Oil for Subaru BRZ for daily driving and track use

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: edhackett
This is from page 416 of your owner's manual:

The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

I wouldn't use any oil with a HTHS < 3.5 on the track.

Ed


I agree. I'd have to give yet another vote to M1 0w40. It's a somewhat lighter 40 grade and is really tough to beat overall.

I'm using it in the 2.5L Subaru and it's great. Quite and smooth, possible more so than the M1 HM that was in before.
 
Originally Posted By: ddeflyer
Originally Posted By: edhackett
This is from page 416 of your owner's manual:

The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

I wouldn't use any oil with a HTHS < 3.5 on the track.

Ed


This is a very good catch with the user manual. According to the data sheet for the oil I am using now, the HTHS is 2.7

I should also add that I have no brand affinity, I am using Amsoil now because it was the best that the shop that did the oil change had.

The HTHSV requirements of an engine are 100% oil temperature related; control your oil temp's and you will precluded the need to run a high HTHSV rated oil.
I run a 2.7cP oil in my track car; an engine that's spec'd for a 3.5+cP oil but I've got a very good control on my max oil temp's (and therefore the mimimum operational viscosity) consequently I can run a light 0W-20 oil.

Regarding the Toyota quotation, I have to disagree it's not a good catch but rather the standard disclaimer of sorts. The statement that a heavier oil "may be better suited" doesn't mean it's technically required.
Sure if you're constantly running at high rev's a heavier will provide less oil consumption so one could conclude that it's "better suited" but Toyota has already dealt with the prospect of high oil temp's by rolling back the power through the ECU safety management systems.
Consequently running a heavier oil will if anything allow higher oil temp's which is what you don't want as was discussed in the following thread with a tracked FRS:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3151252/5

The solution is to stick with the specified TGMO 0W-20 but definitely install an oil cooler if you are going to be tracking the car on a regular basis. The main advantage of the cooler is prevent the ECU from rolling back the power.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Regarding the Toyota quotation, I have to disagree it's not a good catch but rather the standard disclaimer of sorts. The statement that a heavier oil "may be better suited" doesn't mean it's technically required.

...Or even technically allowed under warranty. Many of these manuals are edited in a very piecemeal fashion. My G refers vaguely to "other viscosities," yet SM/GF-4 5w-30 is required under all conditions.
 
We're talking about a Subaru here, not a Toyota. That quote is from the Subaru manual for this car. Subaru doesn't specify TGMO for this car.

The OP has stated that he is currently seeing oil temperatures up to 275F. Do you trust a HTHS 2.6 oil at those temperatures?

Ed
 
since we're happy that cat's is back to fight his noble battle, why not tribute the man with the caterham blend? could you really go wrong with that?
 
In Australia, Subaru specify any SM/GF-4 0w20, 5w30 or even a 5w40. However I dont know how a 5w40 can be SM/GF-4 approved. Toyota on the other hand require an SL/GF-3 0w20 or 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
We're talking about a Subaru here, not a Toyota. That quote is from the Subaru manual for this car. Subaru doesn't specify TGMO for this car.

The OP has stated that he is currently seeing oil temperatures up to 275F. Do you trust a HTHS 2.6 oil at those temperatures?

Ed

The BRZ Toyota clone, the FRZ, of course specifies TGMO 0W-20.
You can use any API 0W-20 in either model.

I agree with you that it is quite amazing that Suburu/Toyota can manage through ECU mapping safety controls such a high oil temp'.
From what I've heard the main power reduction is at the torgue peak and at lower rpm's at wide throttle openings when the engine viscosity demands are at their highest. Also remember this is only a 200 hp unit.
For lots of reasons, if you can avoid it, you don't what those kinds of oil temp's under the hood regardless of the oil grade.
The solution is an oil cooler which I understand is readily available in a kit.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: edhackett
We're talking about a Subaru here, not a Toyota. That quote is from the Subaru manual for this car. Subaru doesn't specify TGMO for this car.

The OP has stated that he is currently seeing oil temperatures up to 275F. Do you trust a HTHS 2.6 oil at those temperatures?

Ed

The BRZ Toyota clone, the FRZ, of course specifies TGMO 0W-20.

A recommendation is not the same as a specification. I doubt very much that the FR-S "specifies" TGMO 0W-20. N. America is pretty much the only location that doesn't list 5W-30.

-Dennis
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: edhackett
We're talking about a Subaru here, not a Toyota. That quote is from the Subaru manual for this car. Subaru doesn't specify TGMO for this car.

The OP has stated that he is currently seeing oil temperatures up to 275F. Do you trust a HTHS 2.6 oil at those temperatures?

Ed

The BRZ Toyota clone, the FRZ, of course specifies TGMO 0W-20.
You can use any API 0W-20 in either model.

I agree with you that it is quite amazing that Suburu/Toyota can manage through ECU mapping safety controls such a high oil temp'.
From what I've heard the main power reduction is at the torgue peak and at lower rpm's at wide throttle openings when the engine viscosity demands are at their highest. Also remember this is only a 200 hp unit.
For lots of reasons, if you can avoid it, you don't what those kinds of oil temp's under the hood regardless of the oil grade.
The solution is an oil cooler which I understand is readily available in a kit.



I wasn't able to come up with a FRS owner's manual online easily, so I don't know if Toyota has the same verbiage concerning higher viscosity for certain conditions. I wanted to clarify that this is a Subaru, as standing at the Subaru service counter saying,"but, but, I followed Toyota's recommendations" isn't going to get you your warrantee work.

Wouldn't it be more amazing if the engineers were freed of having to deal with government regulations and the accounting department. The car would come off the showroom floor with an oil cooler and an oil of a viscosity that would protect the car under any operating conditions, with room to spare. Instead they have to take the cheap route and castrate the engine electronically because the "recommended" oil is not up to the task.

Ed
 
Ed, if they have to castrate the engine when said engine is used entirely within the abilities of the machine, then the engineers have either done something catastrophically wrong, or been influenced out of the engineering process by other factors.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ed, if they have to castrate the engine when said engine is used entirely within the abilities of the machine, then the engineers have either done something catastrophically wrong, or been influenced out of the engineering process by other factors.


The need to meet CAFE numbers and the cost of the oil cooler to accounting/marketing being those other factors. They were't allowed to specify a thicker oil to work as is, or incur the cost of of an oil cooler. All they were allowed to do was add a few lines of code.

Subaru is/was one of the last out there along with Porsche/Audi were you could still see the influence of the engineers. I've owned three new Subarus; with each newer one the influence of engineers who "got it" as far as the driving experience and ease of maintenance has faded.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
This is from page 416 of your owner's manual:

The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

I wouldn't use any oil with a HTHS < 3.5 on the track.

Ed
Huh the owners manual !!! who woulda thunk it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top