SuperTech Full Synthetic Vs. Pennzoil Ultra

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Originally Posted By: domer10
And if its only better because of cost......its not better.


If it meets the spec and standard and the context-specific use does not require higher demands... and then it is cheaper. Yeah, it is "better" by some context.

Paper is cheaper than vellum (animal-skin)... now which is better for a newspaper or magazine? If you are creating a multi-century document, then yeah, vellum might be the choice but if it is a more temporal, everyday use, what is wrong with "paper".

In this oil scenario, this is not an extended drain OCI (actually the person has stated very short OCI), this is not an exotic vehicle nor is it a recent vehicle with different engineering demands (say, DI). ST meets the demands well and does so at a lower price.

What was the old saying... NASA created a zero-gravity pen at great cost and the soviets just used a pencil... I do not need a NASA-grade titanium-allow screwdriver to fix the cabinet handle when any old steel phillips-head will do.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: domer10
And if its only better because of cost......its not better.


If it meets the spec and standard and the context-specific use does not require higher demands... and then it is cheaper. Yeah, it is "better" by some context.

Paper is cheaper than vellum (animal-skin)... now which is better for a newspaper or magazine? If you are creating a multi-century document, then yeah, vellum might be the choice but if it is a more temporal, everyday use, what is wrong with "paper".

In this oil scenario, this is not an extended drain OCI (actually the person has stated very short OCI), this is not an exotic vehicle nor is it a recent vehicle with different engineering demands (say, DI). ST meets the demands well and does so at a lower price.

What was the old saying... NASA created a zero-gravity pen at great cost and the soviets just used a pencil... I do not need a NASA-grade titanium-allow screwdriver to fix the cabinet handle when any old steel phillips-head will do.


PU is still the better fluid, bottom line. Price does not make a oil better. It makes it better for those who are penny pinching, does not change the fact that PU out performs ST....so if it out performs ST, than that means its better.
 
Yeah, yet another dumb old myth. NASA used pencils at first too, but they have their own problems in microgravity.

And the pen company that eventually sold their pens to NASA- they spent their own money on development. Oh, and the Russians use pens too.

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
What was the old saying... NASA created a zero-gravity pen at great cost and the soviets just used a pencil... I do not need a NASA-grade titanium-allow screwdriver to fix the cabinet handle when any old steel phillips-head will do.
 
Originally Posted By: domer10
PU is still the better fluid, bottom line. Price does not make a oil better.

Sure it can. "Better" is meaningless without context. OCI, required specifications, and cost are all part of that context. I guarantee you that PU 5w-20 would be substantially worse than Supertech 15w-40 in a 7.3 Powerstroke.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: domer10
PU is still the better fluid, bottom line. Price does not make a oil better.

Sure it can. "Better" is meaningless without context. OCI, required specifications, and cost are all part of that context. I guarantee you that PU 5w-20 would be substantially worse than Supertech 15w-40 in a 7.3 Powerstroke.


when you have to grasp at straws to find resasons why ST is better.......means PU is clearly better. For every one of these examples, there are 20 more that PU would be better.
 
That's still not "better," and not by a long shot. A lube has to be matched to its application and its intended use. There is nothing "better" about using PU for a short OCI in a vanilla SN/GF-5 application. It may be "better" for Shell's bottom line; it may be "better" if you like a lighter wallet. But it won't add anything to the life of an engine in such an application.
 
I wouldn't say that a prudent ROI was a 'grasping at straws' exercise either. Application application application.

Short oci, Super Tech - excellent
Pennzoil Ultra - waste maybe?

Long oci, 7.5K+:
Super Tech - maybe
Pennzoil Ultra - One of the very best
 
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Other than running both of them in the same engine, for the same interval, and running UOAs on both oils it would be difficult to tell the difference. Ultra is a great cleaning, high performance oil that in some weights is actually used by racing series-my brother used to run ST in his bomber dirt track car & he blew up all the time! Therefore Ultra is better!
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Originally Posted By: domer10
PU is still the better fluid, bottom line. Price does not make a oil better. It makes it better for those who are penny pinching, does not change the fact that PU out performs ST....so if it out performs ST, than that means its better.


Price absolutely can make an item "better". A tasty hamburger at $5 is better than a tasty burger at $20. Some people even think that because it costs more, it is better.

You are mixing up that "higher performance" = better oil. This is incorrect. PU is a higher performance oil and in certain application that can make it better. However, "better" can have a lot more qualifications and then performance becomes one of many criteria.

The same could be said if I put ultra-high performance tires on my Subaru Outback. Is that a "better tire"? I get more grip in the dry summer conditions, so it must be better? No, if a tire shop claimed that I would cuss them three ways to Sunday. A cheaper, general "all purpose all season" tire is better because I am taking multiple metrics into consideration rather than just a narrow performance demand. If I only drive 4K per year in my wagon, a 80,000mi rated 155mph tire at $200 is more that what can be used if I got a $100 40,000mi tire because that 80K rating would take 20 years to use up and I am sure the tire would have rotted away and the "performance" would be wasted.

The OP left the term "better" as being fairly ambiguous. If he said which was "better performing", ok, I would say PU (but for a common, no-special-needs, short OCI, why?). ST has better availability, lower price, and does all the general-use oil demands (and is above par of a lot of oil), so when you take performance along with other metrics, ST can be better.

My NASA "story" is what engineers need to know... do not over-engineer and waste resources to accomplish a task. You don't build homes to withstand hurricanes in Minnesota or earthquakes in Charlotte NC. Design for the conditions and do not create waste.
 
Originally Posted By: domer10

PU is still the better fluid, bottom line. Price does not make a oil better. It makes it better for those who are penny pinching, does not change the fact that PU out performs ST....so if it out performs ST, than that means its better.


THANK YOU. ^^^

I believe some here have the capability to understand the simple truth, but after verbally painting themselves into a corner, they refuse to do so.

Ultra IS A BETTER OIL, period. If they want to discuss "bargains", then perhaps another thread is in order. Otherwise, they are here just to be provocative and start a senseless debate. Want proof? Notice he even started it with the stupid little popcorn icon.
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Lots of ways to look at it. I think we can all agree with that. But weight for weight, the PU will have a heavier additive pack, longer lasting TBN, and more than likely, a higher quality base stock, hence the higher price (along with the simple name of the brand also increasing the price).

On the other hand, in the long run, you may save money on OCI's by running ST and have VERY similar wear results in a UOA.

If we pick an exact guideline for the meaning "better", there's no doubt that we can pick a particular one.
 
If you are under warranty and have to abide by short oci mandate (5K mile max in Hyundai's case), Super Tech will fit the bill nicely if synthetic is a must for you. In this application at least, it is the better choice if not the better oil for some.
 
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Other than running both of them in the same engine, for the same interval, and running UOAs on both oils it would be difficult to tell the difference.

Even then, UOAs have minimal utility in comparing oils, beyond such things as OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
I believe some here have the capability to understand the simple truth, but after verbally painting themselves into a corner, they refuse to do so.

No one's been painted into a corner. "Better" is meaningless without some sort of qualification, and even "better performance" is ridiculously ambiguous. Is my G better than my F-150? Maybe in fuel economy and horsepower numbers. How about towing capacity? Winter driving? Insurance costs?

In the fleet years, expensive oils were avoided specifically, since the ROI wasn't there. Yet, the engines outlasted everything else. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't spend more than twice as much for the synthetics of the day, considering I would not have doubled the OCI.
 
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