GT Radial vs Falken Sincera

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Nick1994

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Well I have about 6 months to a year left on the Bridgestones my Camry came with. Have no idea about mileage on them, they ride ok - nothing out of the ordinary. The car has all new struts/ springs as well. I'm a college student and I'm not wanting to put anything fancy on this car, want to maintain it well but kind of run it into the ground, just drive it til it starts to die. I'm deciding between 2 tires for it from Discount Tire. The GT Radials (a friend has a pair, look like good tires) and the Falken Sinceras. I've had the car for 4.5 months and have put 6,000 miles on the car so about 16,000 miles per year (might increase a little bit). I drive in the city all week, in traffic and have some highway. Occasionally go on a road trip out of town as well. Now for the pricing which I will break down below:

GT Radials set of 4:
$44.00 each, out the door cost is $268.96
With road hazard certificates they're $302.54

Falken Sincera SN-828
$60.00 each, out the door cost is $339.55
With road hazard certificates they're $382.87

I'm leaning toward the GT Radials without certificates, in the unlikely event I get a nail in the sidewall, they're cheap enough to buy a new one I'm thinking.

What do you guys think?
 
At the very least please buy the Falkens if you can't afford tier 2 tires at this time. The GT tires are absolute garbage, I don't think they deserve to even be called tier 3 tires, they are something worse.

Tires are the single most important way you can affect the safety of your vehicle. Using only tier 1 or 2 tires, replacing them before they reach the wear bars, and keeping them properly inflated will do much more for your safety and wallet than replacing shocks and struts could ever do.
 
Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
At the very least please buy the Falkens if you can't afford tier 2 tires at this time. The GT tires are absolute garbage, I don't think they deserve to even be called tier 3 tires, they are something worse.

Tires are the single most important way you can affect the safety of your vehicle. Using only tier 1 or 2 tires, replacing them before they reach the wear bars, and keeping them properly inflated will do much more for your safety and wallet than replacing shocks and struts could ever do.


I understand, the PO replaced all of the struts and springs.

I've seen some people on here talk bad about the cheaper tires, but has anybody actually had anything bad happen? Has anyone's cheap tire blown out or lose the tread? I mean if they are that bad I don't see Discount Tire selling them. The corner tire shops in town sell Westlake tires. Now those I don't think I would put on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994


I understand, the PO replaced all of the struts and springs.

I've seen some people on here talk bad about the cheaper tires, but has anybody actually had anything bad happen? Has anyone's cheap tire blown out or lose the tread? I mean if they are that bad I don't see Discount Tire selling them.


Blow outs and tread peeling are the least of your worries. Any brand of tire has about the same chance of it happening as they are caused by overloading/under inflation 99% of the time.

Braking distance is radically different between different brands and models of tires. Tier 1 brands will almost always have the shortest braking performance. Tier 1 consists of Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Continental, Pirelli, Avon, Metzeler, Vredestein and Nokian.

Tier 2 have longer braking distances, but still acceptable. Tier 2 consists of B.F.Goodrich, Firestone, Dunlop, Toyo, Yokohama, and a few choice others.

Example: [True story] A month or so ago a friend of mine was driving a little too fast for the road he was on, in dry conditions. He had almost new mud specialty tires on his unmodified 2wd Ranger that were made in China by some no name company [very possibly GT]. Someone pulled out in front of him without looking. My friend slammed on the brakes, he said his truck didn't even slow down, it just skidded, the next thing he knew he was seeing the gun smoke from the airbag drifting up in front of his face. His truck was demolished, and his wife seriously injured. If he 1.) had tier 1 or 2 tires, and 2.) had something other than mud specialty tires, his truck would have slowed down much better, and his antilock brake system would have functioned much better. He would have still hit the other truck, but the injuries and damage would have been greatly reduced.
 
I had Falken tires put on the Accord yesterday. Mine are 185/65/15. $44 each, out the door for $250. $30 rebate, I am selling the old tires (3 Uniroyal Tigerpaws and one Continental Contactpro) for around $100 - so for around $120 I will have a matched set of tires on the Accord for my son. Not sure why a smaller size tire (14 inch) is more expensive? So far so good, I drove home from the tire store and back and forth to work today. They are smooth. Seem to have quite a bit of tread. We will see. I have several friends with Falken tires, they love them. Never heard of GT tires, but did see them on the Discount Tire website, but they must not come in my size, since I did not see them on the list for my car.
 
I have a pair of the GT 328's....

Decent tire, nothing special.

My only gripe was that max inflation pressure was 350 KPA, my other tires on that car were 400 KPA max.
(Different size)

But for 97 Camry with nearly 200K, cost is an issue....

Any tire is going to wear and handle differently depending on the amount of air.
Ignore the door sticker, that is for max ride comfort.
I put 4-5 psi (25 KPA) under the max written on the sidewall, I put in 325 in a 350 max tire.
 
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
I have a pair of the GT 328's....

Decent tire, nothing special.

My only gripe was that max inflation pressure was 350 KPA, my other tires on that car were 400 KPA max.
(Different size)

But for 97 Camry with nearly 200K, cost is an issue....

Any tire is going to wear and handle differently depending on the amount of air.
Ignore the door sticker, that is for max ride comfort.
I put 4-5 psi (25 KPA) under the max written on the sidewall, I put in 325 in a 350 max tire.


I agree, the door stickers are a bit low for my taste. I run my current tires at 36-38 psi or so. I'll sacrifice a little bit of smoothness for longer lasting tread.
 
Originally Posted By: DutchBrad
I had Falken tires put on the Accord yesterday. Mine are 185/65/15. $44 each, out the door for $250. $30 rebate, I am selling the old tires (3 Uniroyal Tigerpaws and one Continental Contactpro) for around $100 - so for around $120 I will have a matched set of tires on the Accord for my son. Not sure why a smaller size tire (14 inch) is more expensive? So far so good, I drove home from the tire store and back and forth to work today. They are smooth. Seem to have quite a bit of tread. We will see. I have several friends with Falken tires, they love them. Never heard of GT tires, but did see them on the Discount Tire website, but they must not come in my size, since I did not see them on the list for my car.


Falkens for my car are $49 each in San Diego but $60 each in Phoenix. I figured it was because San Diego is right off the coast with easy access from China. Then I looked at the price in Oklahoma, $49 each!
 
I have sold tires for 14 years. Sold GT radials for over 5 years. GT has good tires and low value tires but on all that I've sold I never had any bad feedback. In fact I've seen multiple sets last longer than brand name tires. No major tire quality issues either. Probably sold thousands of the GT radials......Falken is also a good brand and a bit more technology put into the tires.

For a really good deal for the money look at a TOYO EXTENSA A/S
 
I put the Falkens on daughters Aveo, 17k later they were shot. DT replaced them with Yokahamas, for a small fee, they said, Oh yeah Aveos are hard on tires. Funny, the oem Kumhos lasted over 35k.
 
Originally Posted By: Cardenio327


Braking distance is radically different between different brands and models of tires. Tier 1 brands will almost always have the shortest braking performance. Tier 1 consists of Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Continental, Pirelli, Avon, Metzeler, Vredestein and Nokian.

Tier 2 have longer braking distances, but still acceptable. Tier 2 consists of B.F.Goodrich, Firestone, Dunlop, Toyo, Yokohama, and a few choice others.


Yokohama is Tier 2? I thought they were tier 1!

Goodyear could be both Tier 1 and 2, as they are the best at having multiple price points of many tire types. For example, they have three passenger all-season tires: the Tripletred (premium), the Fuel Max (middle), and the Integrity (lowest).

Tier 3: Cooper, Falken, Hankook, Kumho, Nitto, and some others.

@OP, I'd easily take the Falken over GT Radial. At least it's a name brand!

If you can afford it, get the General Altimax RT43 from DTD and ship it to your local DT location. You will be much happier with them.

$394 OTD without the certificates
$431 with the certificates
 
See what the Falken sincera touring 211's will cost from a dealer. I have those on my oldsmobile and so far i like them, 80k rated.
 
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How about we let the experts at Modern Tire Dealer talk about the tier levels. Nor do they mention anything such as "braking performance".

*****************

The tiers are used in the U.S. tire market to describe differences in terms of price and profit margin. Tiers do not correspond to performance.

"Tires in tier one are the major tire companies’ premium brands. They carry the highest price tags and have the highest profit margins for the manufacturers. They are can be original equipment on premium brand cars, light trucks and large SUVs. Tier one tires are marketed to automobile aficionados as replacement tires. Examples of tier one tires are the Bridgestone, Goodyear and Michelin brands.

"Tires in tier two are the tire companies’ mid-market brands. The marketing effort for these tires is not as extensive as for tier one tires. Therefore, they are not sold for the premium price found on tier one tires. As a result, these tires have a lower profit margin. Examples of tier two tires are the Firestone, Dunlop, BFGoodrich, Continental, Yokohama and Toyo brands.

"Tires in tier three are 'value' brand tires for consumers who look for value for the money. These tires are marketed to consumers who are more concerned with price than a brand name. Tier three tires have the lowest profit margins. In the 1990s, the major tire sellers in the United States, both domestic and foreign, decided to end U.S. production of tier three tires so most of the tires in this tier are imported. In addition to GITI’s GT Radial, Runway and Primewell brands, other examples include tires imported by Goodyear from Venezuela and Poland and sold at Wal-Mart under the Douglas brand and tires imported by Michelin from Indonesia and sold under the Riken brand."
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
How about we let the experts at Modern Tire Dealer talk about the tier levels. Nor do they mention anything such as "braking performance".

*****************

The tiers are used in the U.S. tire market to describe differences in terms of price and profit margin. Tiers do not correspond to performance.

"Tires in tier one are the major tire companies’ premium brands. They carry the highest price tags and have the highest profit margins for the manufacturers. They are can be original equipment on premium brand cars, light trucks and large SUVs. Tier one tires are marketed to automobile aficionados as replacement tires. Examples of tier one tires are the Bridgestone, Goodyear and Michelin brands.

"Tires in tier two are the tire companies’ mid-market brands. The marketing effort for these tires is not as extensive as for tier one tires. Therefore, they are not sold for the premium price found on tier one tires. As a result, these tires have a lower profit margin. Examples of tier two tires are the Firestone, Dunlop, BFGoodrich, Continental, Yokohama and Toyo brands.

"Tires in tier three are 'value' brand tires for consumers who look for value for the money. These tires are marketed to consumers who are more concerned with price than a brand name. Tier three tires have the lowest profit margins. In the 1990s, the major tire sellers in the United States, both domestic and foreign, decided to end U.S. production of tier three tires so most of the tires in this tier are imported. In addition to GITI’s GT Radial, Runway and Primewell brands, other examples include tires imported by Goodyear from Venezuela and Poland and sold at Wal-Mart under the Douglas brand and tires imported by Michelin from Indonesia and sold under the Riken brand."





The materials used to produce tires are made or controlled by five vertically integrated global corporations, whether that may be morally right or wrong is debatable. These five companies use their finest materials and best/newest technologies to build tier 1 tires, resulting in these same tires having greatly better performance. As mentioned in your article, these tier 1 tires are heavily advertised, but much of their higher profit margin is directed back towards R & D. Michelin spends 550 million Euro per year on R & D to improve their products. These same technologies and materials are used to build tier 2 & 3 tires made by these five companies, just in amounts corresponding to the market targeted by the tire. Other companies like Cooper, Toyo and the Chinese must buy most of their material from the five majors, driving up their production costs, often forcing them to buy inferior materials. The smaller companies have smaller R & D budgets as well, and the less scrupulous ones steal or reverse engineer technology. Nokian and Toyo buy most of their material from Bridgestone and are probably technology partners as well.

As to made in USA, plenty of tier 3 tires are still made in the US. Cooper makes mainly tier 3 products, the bulk of their production is in USA, sold under a myriad of brand names. Many Uniroyal & General tires are still made in USA, along with an occasional Fuzion. Tier 1 tires are made in China too, but the only companies I know of that are exporting so far are Pirelli and Nokian.

As remarked above by other posters about Goodyear and General: Many OEM tires may be branded as tier 1, but perform solidly in tier 2. Goodyear seems to be the most guilty of making these tires, Bridgestone probably comes in second, while many General tires perform good enough to be considered tier 2.

I have never read Modern Tire Dealer, but I have read some of the hack journalism that is printed in automotive sales industry magazines, so right or wrong as I may be, I can only imagine that Modern Tire Dealer consists of the same. I can easily imagine that article being commissioned to allow poor frazzled franchise owners to sleep at night after selling Primewell tires to their unsuspecting cheapskate customers.
 
What I have seen about "tiers" is that it is all about clout - how much impact a given brand has on market accessibility. How difficult it is to convinced a dealer to stock or a consumer to buy - and how that impacts the price paid. Actual performance is not the issue here - and this applies to anything that is sold, not just tires.

Tier 1 tire brands all supply OEM's. The opposite is NOT true (That a brand supplying OE is a tier 1). I suspect this has more to do with the OEM's wanting to have a "halo effect" on their vehicles.

These are the big boys and they control the majority of the market.

Tier 2 tire brands are "value brands". Some supply the OEM's, some don't. Some are sub-brands of a Tier 1 tire manufacturers, but most are their own manufacturer's primary brand. Cooper, Yokohama, Toyo are good examples.

Tier 3 tire brands are those that have little marketing presence. Many are private brands - brands either owned by a tire manufacturer or owned by a distributor where very little if any advertising is done. These would be good for a dealer to have and sold to consumers with the idea that the local dealer is the warranty source.

And one I heard recently was Tier 4 - which is a brand that no one has heard of, likely has a regional distribution, and is sold strictly on price. These are frequently Chinese in origin, but India and Thailand is also there.
 
They are inherently "proceed with caution".

Krzys

PS German magazines started testing the tires in a two stage process, apparently their market is flooded with tires too. Tires with strange names more often than not do not qualify for 2nd stage.
 
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Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Are Tier 4 tires inherently bad/substandard in overall performance?

Are Chinese tires like Chinese hub bearings ... bad?
Can the Chinese not build a good tire/bearing ?


I think the "Tier" has nothing to do with quality - except to say that it is hard to become a higher tier player without having done the homework. But there are some notable tire manufacturers who have a very good reputation, one well above the apparent tier level - Nokian is a good example.

And I think that you will find some variation within the camp known as "Chinese" - some pretty good, some not. I have no doubt that eventually the market will sort out the "silk purses".

And one last thought about tiers. - at least in the tire industry: I see Tier 1 brands as being like an "anchor store" - one that every tire shop (mall) has to have one of in stock or they are not really in the tire business (or they aren't really a mall). Many shops will stock a tier 2 and a tier 3 brand to cover things. Many stores, of course, can order just about anything, but it's what they have on the shelves that counts.
 
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Are Tier 4 tires inherently bad/substandard in overall performance?

Are Chinese tires like Chinese hub bearings ... bad?
Can the Chinese not build a good tire/bearing ?


Many Chinese tires are fine. Offhand, I am seeing more and more OTR truckers using Roadmaster and Double Coin steer tires.
 
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