Used Aston Martin

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
They don't cost any more than any other car to change the oil on, why do these myths keep getting repeated?

Because:

1. The cars frequently get service other than an oil change at the same time, and

2. The idea of a $3k oil change is gratifying because it plugs right into stereotypes about exotic cars and wealthy lifestyles.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The OP just did not come off as someone who is interested in/able to go in with both eyes open. Hope I'm wrong about that.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Is its maintenance like a VW?

If so it could get expensive.

It will make the VW look like a Cavalier. Probably worse than that.

I have heard of Bentley/Rolls oil changes being $3K "at the dealer in Atlanta." Meaning people here drive their Rolls 2 hours (or have someone else drive it) to Atlanta for a $3K oil change. They go over a lot of stuff obviously, but it probably needs going over.

Aston probably isn't on this level, but this is the kind of car where you need to budget at least the purchase price just for general care and maintenance. I know an indy shop here that will work on all British cars, but it's still going to cost you for something like this. They usually just mess with Land Rovers and Range Rovers.

If you're just looking for pure fun, you can find it much cheaper than that. If you simply have to have one of these cars, just be prepared for the real expense of keeping it up.


They don't cost any more than any other car to change the oil on, why do these myths keep getting repeated?





Um, sure. Because any other car takes 8-10 quarts of synthetic and a filter you probably won't be able buy off the shelf at any store? Right. On most cars, you can change the oil yourself for less than $30, VWs included. Simply not happening with something truly exotic.

You MIGHT be able to change it on a Bentley/Rolls yourself for about the cost of a DIY oil change on a diesel pickup. It won't be as easy to find the filter though.

Most cars need more than oil changes. What will be the OP's limit with DIY? At what point will he have to hand it off to a shop? At what point will he have to get parts from the manufacturer because nobody else has them at any price?

Some of the indy shops here MIGHT do an oil change on an older Rolls or Bentley for less than $200. I doubt it would be as low on anything newer than 10 years. They will obviously not be as thorough as the dealer would be on a $3K ticket, where the entire car is probably gone over with a fine tooth comb and not treated like just another Jaguar or Range Rover.

Another thing to consider is that most shops will simply turn these cars away. Too much liability. If any damage of any kind happens, it could be far more expensive to fix than a standard car, even cars in the low $100K range. That is how I heard about the supposed "myth" of the $3K oil change at the dealer...I was delivering oil to a shop when some dude rolls up in a Ghost wanting an oil change. Shop said no way, no how, take it to the dealer or British shop. That was just an oil change. Where do you take it when the trans goes out? Aamco? Or when it needs a window regulator, and you can't do it yourself, or are afraid to? Things that are a piece of cake on other cars introduce a whole new level of questions on a real exotic.

Even the shops that ONLY work on Euro cars do not like having really exotic stuff come in. I was at one shop and the owner had a pristine 1960s Ferrari of some kind in there. Looked like a nut & bolt restoration. He told me "I hate cars like this, I can't wait till it's gone. If anything happens to it, it's my [censored]."

So no, they are not like any other car. Not to the people who service them, or deny service on them. The only way to reign the cost into normal car territory is to do EVERYTHING yourself. Most people do not have the means or skill.

On a different level, but to the same point...BMW owners keep coming into where I work asking if we have or can get 10W60 oil. One guy was practically distraught that the dealer wanted $400 to do an oil change on his M5, and that the dealer wanted $15 a quart just to sell the oil to him. My boss thought he was just a [censored] at first and called the dealer out of curiosity...yep, 10W60, $400 for an oil change, $15 a quart just to buy the oil. Yep, just like every other car.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Thanks for all the replies.

To answer a few questions, yes I can afford it but I am a bit miserly hence the questions about reliability, maintenance and residuals.

I don't drive that much and would look to put less than 5000 miles a year on it.

Which is my dilemma because I like nice cars but don't drive much these days. If I drove more than my choice in that price range would be simpler eg Audi, BMW, Jaguar.

Any thoughts on the Bentley Continental Coupe? Is its maintenance like a VW?

If so it could get expensive.

I see your in Nevada I assume you're in the Vegas area? If you do purchase a Euro car I would recommend Franks Euro Service, by far the best shop in Vegas IMHO.

http://www.frankseuropeanservice.com/home

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Man a lot of people here hate anything nice, but post about a junk 20 year old Camry and they love you.


I don't think it's that so much.

As we both know, the fellow buying an old Benz or other big German for "cheap", thinking they can maintain it like an old Camry, usually wind up with an expensive fiasco.

The OP mentioned "miserly" at one point. Miserly and AM really don't mix.

A new AM goes for around $190k. I guess a DB7 might have cost a little less. Even at $60k used, it still requires the upkeep of a $150-190k exotic. In that respect, even with DIY, it's far worse than an older Benz unless one keeps open a very deep wallet. Some of the other posters are right; once you reach this strata of auto, most shops don't want them, many won't take them, and the few that do make you pay huge.

Like I inferred above, the neighbor with the new DB9 is probably petrified to drive the dang thing, and everything has to be done at the dealer.

But if the OP can afford the whole commitment with eyes wide open, and really wants one that badly . . . you only live once. Go for it.

Well, maybe "you only live twice" if you drive one of these.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000

Pretty much what I suspected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

As other posters have said, good luck to you. Hope it works out.

 

[Win]

I guess I'm confused.

What exactly is "exotic" about an Aston Martin?

Unless it's changed radically since Ford sold them, the V8 came from the Jaguar AJ-V8.

The V12 came from Cosworth - two duratecs stuck end to end.

The tranny is likely a ZF, and the diff probably is as well - Ford used these in the premium car lines (except for the Jaguar V12's - they used a 4L80E).

Are they aluminum? At that price I would expect so. Likely bonded together like the mid range and above Jaguars have been for a decade.

Some coachworks, an HVAC, some disc brakes. Probably the same bits the high end Jaguars have used.

I'm not seeing what the big deal is here.

I certainly wouldn't let the peanut gallery dissuade me if I wanted one.

But I would probably just get a new XK or an F Type and not worry about what the PO botched up.

edit: if "residuals" are an issue, then you can't afford it. Get a Camry and be done with it.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Is its maintenance like a VW?

If so it could get expensive.

It will make the VW look like a Cavalier. Probably worse than that.

I have heard of Bentley/Rolls oil changes being $3K "at the dealer in Atlanta." Meaning people here drive their Rolls 2 hours (or have someone else drive it) to Atlanta for a $3K oil change. They go over a lot of stuff obviously, but it probably needs going over.

Aston probably isn't on this level, but this is the kind of car where you need to budget at least the purchase price just for general care and maintenance. I know an indy shop here that will work on all British cars, but it's still going to cost you for something like this. They usually just mess with Land Rovers and Range Rovers.

If you're just looking for pure fun, you can find it much cheaper than that. If you simply have to have one of these cars, just be prepared for the real expense of keeping it up.


They don't cost any more than any other car to change the oil on, why do these myths keep getting repeated?





Um, sure. Because any other car takes 8-10 quarts of synthetic and a filter you probably won't be able buy off the shelf at any store? Right. On most cars, you can change the oil yourself for less than $30, VWs included. Simply not happening with something truly exotic.

You MIGHT be able to change it on a Bentley/Rolls yourself for about the cost of a DIY oil change on a diesel pickup. It won't be as easy to find the filter though.

Most cars need more than oil changes. What will be the OP's limit with DIY? At what point will he have to hand it off to a shop? At what point will he have to get parts from the manufacturer because nobody else has them at any price?

Some of the indy shops here MIGHT do an oil change on an older Rolls or Bentley for less than $200. I doubt it would be as low on anything newer than 10 years. They will obviously not be as thorough as the dealer would be on a $3K ticket, where the entire car is probably gone over with a fine tooth comb and not treated like just another Jaguar or Range Rover.

Another thing to consider is that most shops will simply turn these cars away. Too much liability. If any damage of any kind happens, it could be far more expensive to fix than a standard car, even cars in the low $100K range. That is how I heard about the supposed "myth" of the $3K oil change at the dealer...I was delivering oil to a shop when some dude rolls up in a Ghost wanting an oil change. Shop said no way, no how, take it to the dealer or British shop. That was just an oil change. Where do you take it when the trans goes out? Aamco? Or when it needs a window regulator, and you can't do it yourself, or are afraid to? Things that are a piece of cake on other cars introduce a whole new level of questions on a real exotic.

Even the shops that ONLY work on Euro cars do not like having really exotic stuff come in. I was at one shop and the owner had a pristine 1960s Ferrari of some kind in there. Looked like a nut & bolt restoration. He told me "I hate cars like this, I can't wait till it's gone. If anything happens to it, it's my [censored]."

So no, they are not like any other car. Not to the people who service them, or deny service on them. The only way to reign the cost into normal car territory is to do EVERYTHING yourself. Most people do not have the means or skill.

On a different level, but to the same point...BMW owners keep coming into where I work asking if we have or can get 10W60 oil. One guy was practically distraught that the dealer wanted $400 to do an oil change on his M5, and that the dealer wanted $15 a quart just to sell the oil to him. My boss thought he was just a [censored] at first and called the dealer out of curiosity...yep, 10W60, $400 for an oil change, $15 a quart just to buy the oil. Yep, just like every other car.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1427453,parttype,5340
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=90132&cc=1427453

Oh exotic, throw in probably 10 quarts of oil. No more money than any other high end car.

Have you ever worked on a RR, Bentley, Ferrari, AM?

Yes some parts are very expensive, but a lot of stuff is not.

FYI AM is switching over to Mercedes AMG drive lines, and getting rid of all their old Jag stuff.

 

[01rangerxl]

And that filter fits the Continental he was asking about?

No, I haven't had to work on one thankfully. But I deal with the shops who do, or who avoid working on them, on a daily basis. I know first hand why they do not like seeing these things come in. As I mentioned, these cars are seen as a liability. And like I said, they will need more than an oil change to be kept up. Just because you may have done an oil change on one and it wasn't that expensive doesn't mean these are simple, affordable cars to own...especially for someone who is not prepared to do all repairs on their own. You are ignoring the big picture because one basic service can be done at home for not much more than other high end vehicles (first you said "any other car"). On a British car especially, it WILL need more than just oil changes, everything does. The reality in the repair business is that these aren't just like any other car...just finding someone willing to do the work is an additional challenge.

Have you ever done anything more involved than an oil change on one? Have you had to take one somewhere to get it serviced or repaired?

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Pretty much what I suspected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

As other posters have said, good luck to you. Hope it works out.


So you're not convinced I'm considering this for the right reasons? That's ok, it's hard to understand where someone is coming from on the Internet.

Interesting link by the way. It's something I realized a long time ago. As you know, understanding what makes one happy temporarily vs permanently is at the core of eastern philosophy.

One or two people picked up that I said I was miserly. They may have not picked up that I also was interested in residuals.

If a $60k exotic car can avoid the kind of depreciation compared to a more mainstream $60k car, then the incremental maintenance cost may be worth it.

I would consider buying several Japanese vehicles new including an RX8 if they still made them. Many high end German vehicles I would first consider buying CPO.

 

[UncleS2]

My standard guidelines:
Old car? OK.
Foreign car? OK.
Old foreign car? No! Don't do it, run away!

To the above, I'll add:
Old *English* car? NOOOOO!!! NOOOOOOO!!!! RUN RUN RUN!!! NOOOOO!!!

 

[Sam2000]

So far I've found that early DB9s had an error in terms of oil level and pressure warnings that led to cylinder starvation.

Also parts do seen to be generic although the interior is very high quality.

It seems that with a DB9 you are paying for:

Style - which I love

Labor - hand built

Driveability

Interior - high quality handcrafted eg solid wood

But not so much great engineering / expensive parts. Looks like the hand made aspect of this vehicle means that part price and perhaps quality and perhaps overall engineering quality suffer.

 

[vintagegz]

My friend bought a 2005 DB9 with 20,000 kms on it, had it 2 years and 3,000 kms, during that time it looked absolutely stunning, while the leather on the dash started peeling back and the check engine light came on and seat belt light came on among other items. All the while it continued to look stunning. It was sold this spring and he does not miss it at all.

 

[kschachn]

When I was younger there was a guy down the street that had an early 80's Lagonda, and I can assure you that your car will be more reliable than his was.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
So you're not convinced I'm considering this for the right reasons? That's ok, it's hard to understand where someone is coming from on the Internet.

All we have to go on is what you've posted. Prior to this, what you indicated was a low asking price, interest in the car for superficial reasons (i.e. looks), and a desire to keep maintenance costs low. I'm sure you can see how that might give the wrong idea.

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Interesting link by the way. It's something I realized a long time ago. As you know, understanding what makes one happy temporarily vs permanently is at the core of eastern philosophy.

"Hedonic cycle" is in the file name of the picture you linked.

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
One or two people picked up that I said I was miserly. They may have not picked up that I also was interested in residuals.

If a $60k exotic car can avoid the kind of depreciation compared to a more mainstream $60k car, then the incremental maintenance cost may be worth it.

Don't forget the difference in insurance costs.

 

[Volvohead]

Somehow, after reading this thread, I feel much better tooling around in our trusty, un-exotic (takes under 10 qts), R129.

The only residual we count on with it is the smile it places on our faces on a clear day.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Interesting link by the way. It's something I realized a long time ago. As you know, understanding what makes one happy temporarily vs permanently is at the core of eastern philosophy.

"Hedonic cycle" is in the file name of the picture you linked.


Yes I posted that up too quickly.

What I was looking for was something that described the buying cycle, which goes from initial excitement, information gathering phase, more rational thought, considering alternatives, considering cost, acceptance, purchase, excitement. Or something along those lines.

I guess what I was trying to tell you, unsuccessfully, is that I understood that there is a cycle to purchases. And also that I am at the excitement / information gathering phase.

Whether such things are hedonistic type purchases is an interesting question.

Jay Leno has a huge car collection because he loves cars. If he had a fraction of his wealth, he would still love cars. I don't think he is building a collection for the wrong reasons.

I try to make purchases for the right reasons. Enjoying the aesthetics of a vehicle and the way it drives is different to those who buy a BMW because society defines it as success.

Before thinking of a DB9, my thinking was to buy an Audi A7. The reason I began to think of something less sensible was that I don't drive much so my criteria is not the same as someone else looking to buy that sort of vehicle.

 

[hattaresguy]

Drive an AM, you can't quantify the experience of bringing that V12 to red line.

Smiles per mile, running a nice car on a nice road is worth a few grand a year for upkeep and some gas.

Also remind yourself its always cheaper than a boat!

Its all what you enjoy and can enjoy.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Interesting link by the way. It's something I realized a long time ago. As you know, understanding what makes one happy temporarily vs permanently is at the core of eastern philosophy.

"Hedonic cycle" is in the file name of the picture you linked.


Yes I posted that up too quickly.

What I was looking for was something that described the buying cycle, which goes from initial excitement, information gathering phase, more rational thought, considering alternatives, considering cost, acceptance, purchase, excitement. Or something along those lines.

I guess what I was trying to tell you, unsuccessfully, is that I understood that there is a cycle to purchases. And also that I am at the excitement / information gathering phase.

Whether such things are hedonistic type purchases is an interesting question.

Jay Leno has a huge car collection because he loves cars. If he had a fraction of his wealth, he would still love cars. I don't think he is building a collection for the wrong reasons.

I try to make purchases for the right reasons. Enjoying the aesthetics of a vehicle and the way it drives is different to those who buy a BMW because society defines it as success.

Before thinking of a DB9, my thinking was to buy an Audi A7. The reason I began to think of something less sensible was that I don't drive much so my criteria is not the same as someone else looking to buy that sort of vehicle.


Being in Nevada, I think what you need to do is go to one of those "driving experience" companies that lets you take cars like this out on a track for a few laps. See which brand/type of car speaks to you and that you really feel happy driving.

When you talk about residuals, buying for looks, etc. people here are going to wonder if you are really making the choice for the right reasons. I think with a five figure car budget for something at the higher end of the rare spectrum, you need to be sure you are getting the right one. Lots of cars with varying requirements for care fall into your price range, but some of those could be more of a commitment than you are anticipating, and if they aren't the right car, they could just become a burden. That's all we are saying. Make the choice based on the car that really speaks to you, and go in eyes wide open. Don't just buy because "oohhh, that one looks nice!" Residuals should be low on your priorities, as every car looses value for years (decades) before it ever goes up again. Cars are a [censored] poor investment except for those who get lucky...like people who bought clean original Chrysler muscle cars before baby boomers started snapping them up at auctions for ridiculous prices. Cars that turn into a windfall are almost always by accident.

Maybe after a day at a "driving experience," you will come away loving something more easily serviceable and a little less hassle to own like a 911.

 

[Sam2000]

Thanks for taking the time to post but I think you've misunderstood.

How a car looks, inside and out, is important to me. If it looks great and is great to drive in everyday driving (not track) then right now, given my lack of mileage, those are my main criteria for purchase.

Asking for more information here on maintenance and thoughts on residuals was the beginning of the next step. Essentially, I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. I haven't actually received hard facts on the questions I asked. I have received a few interesting comments and some comments that are to do with people concerned about my motivations without realizing that we are all individuals with different motivations and they are somewhat applying their own preferences in judging my preferences.

I do agree that I need to see the vehicles in person though and research on enthusiast forums which I have begun to do.

Right now I've cooled on the idea as I suspect mechanical part quality is a little compromised.