So Champion has a new "Ecore" design. I assume all of their Super Tech filters are of this new design. Are the STP filters of this same "Ecore" design? Can I find the old design somewhere at a reasonable price?
Champion Lab's Ecore design
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Just what does the name "Ecore" stand for? Is it something along the lines of "Environmental-minded filter core design," or might that be an "economical filter core design"???
I think having the core of the filter that open WOULD help oil flow. Unless things fall apart, I'm not sure if I'd be this quick to knock the construction.
Fram-loathe started with Russ Knize dissing the basic design and many of us automatically piled on because Fram is easy to hate. Not too sure whether metal is actually necessary for good internal construction, however.
I think this looks interesting.
Fram-loathe started with Russ Knize dissing the basic design and many of us automatically piled on because Fram is easy to hate. Not too sure whether metal is actually necessary for good internal construction, however.
I think this looks interesting.
many changes seem to be to
cheaper products not make them better
cheaper products not make them better
I looked for Saturn filters at Autozone yesterday. All the STP 3614's were E-core. I found one old-style house brand Valucraft and one AC Delco. The rest of the AC and VC filters were E-core. SuperTech 3614 are E-core. So far, the AC Delco PF59 for my pickup hasn't changed.
I second T-Keith's motion..
I never realized that my morning valvetrain noise was due to the Fram filters that I was using..Then I found BITOG, then I found that Knize filter study, then I swapped out my filter for another one (different brand this time), then that noise never showed up again. That's when I started looking inside filters for myself..
It's not just the cardboard endcaps, its the lack-o-paper, the cheap (and bad design) button bypass valve, and the adbv that doesn't adb....
and they cost as much as MUCH BETTER filters do..
These ecores deserve a chance to prove themselves. If they cause problems, or start showing repeated internal failures (Which we BITOGrs will assuredly see) then they will be considered cheap and will be ranked right there with Fram. If however they prove to be an inexpensive, decent filter, then hey, they just made friends with a lot of home garage (and professional) mechanics.
Time will tell, we may start seeing other makers heading this way as well. We'll just have to keep our eyes open. No question we all have varied opinions on oil/filters/fluids/procedures and whatnot but it is very clear that we are all interested enough to be here talking about it. We are one big enlightened group if you ask me, good for us!...
Oh gotta go
It's happy hour!
I never realized that my morning valvetrain noise was due to the Fram filters that I was using..Then I found BITOG, then I found that Knize filter study, then I swapped out my filter for another one (different brand this time), then that noise never showed up again. That's when I started looking inside filters for myself..
It's not just the cardboard endcaps, its the lack-o-paper, the cheap (and bad design) button bypass valve, and the adbv that doesn't adb....
and they cost as much as MUCH BETTER filters do..
These ecores deserve a chance to prove themselves. If they cause problems, or start showing repeated internal failures (Which we BITOGrs will assuredly see) then they will be considered cheap and will be ranked right there with Fram. If however they prove to be an inexpensive, decent filter, then hey, they just made friends with a lot of home garage (and professional) mechanics.
Time will tell, we may start seeing other makers heading this way as well. We'll just have to keep our eyes open. No question we all have varied opinions on oil/filters/fluids/procedures and whatnot but it is very clear that we are all interested enough to be here talking about it. We are one big enlightened group if you ask me, good for us!...
Oh gotta go
It's happy hour!
Are you saying AC Delco is doing this also!?!? I'm not liking this.
All I can say for sure is that the AC Delco PF53 has switched. There were two on the shelf--one old style and one E-core.
AC filters are not from a single supplier. Champion Labs is one of the suppliers, so it stands to reason that AC filters made by that supplier will be e-core if those particular filters have been converted by Champion Labs to that technology. I expect eventually Champion Labs will convert all current and future filter designs to their e-core technology. Funny that there's so much irrational resistance to this technology when the newer cartridge design filters, such as used on GM's Ecotec motors, have used nylon molded directly to the filtration medium for a couple of years now with no problems.
Virtually all of Champions private label accounts have phased in the e-core design.
E-core has limited part numbers where you'll find this design.
Champ can't make all automotive part numbers in the e-core design.
Champ builds all AC product that is not for GM engines. But is secondary supplier on those when AC has their own production problems or strikes at their plant.
E-core has limited part numbers where you'll find this design.
Champ can't make all automotive part numbers in the e-core design.
Champ builds all AC product that is not for GM engines. But is secondary supplier on those when AC has their own production problems or strikes at their plant.
From a selfish point of view, I'm glad there's plenty of beta testers for the new Ecore design filters. I've already seen enough failures from Champion Labs attempt to lower manufacturing costs with the clicker bypass valve to totally avoid those, and, will wait for the Ecore design to prove itself in the field. Luckily, I have at least a 2 year stash of the "old" quality Champion Lab filters among other brands for all my vehicles.
See this thread for a similar discussion:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002232
See this thread for a similar discussion:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002232
I bet alot of us have a 2-3yr! supply of those AdvanceAuto 2fer1s on hand at the moment..
I am really looking forward to seeing some more examples/pics in the next few weeks/months..
I have faith in the system as much as possible-
with the exception of Fram, the other guys try to do a decent job of good product for reasonable price...work the kinks out and then things will be fine..
I am really looking forward to seeing some more examples/pics in the next few weeks/months..
I have faith in the system as much as possible-
with the exception of Fram, the other guys try to do a decent job of good product for reasonable price...work the kinks out and then things will be fine..
My only problem so far is the use of a bypass valve in GM filters. I suppose they didn't want to pay for a new design without a bypass. The ST 3980 is probably a ST3600 with metric threads. Why they haven't done the same with the 3387 is beyond me.
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Triple_Se7en
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Do the boxes for these Champion Supertech Ecores contain any number of recommended miles before a filter change??
The only issue I see with the Ecore is the end caps. I am uneasy with the one post showing the felt caps coming loose. On the other hand, I question the objectivity of that post. It smells of being determined to find something to condemn the new design for. The plastic center tube seems to be the same as the cartridge elements which have developed a history of no failures seen dispute every filter being easily inspected for problems.
Since there is little history of quality problems with the steel encaps and center tube, economics must be the driving force behind this design change. Either prices go up, or the design changes. The filters that were widely available for $3 5 years ago, are now more like $4. I bought many AC's at K-Mart for $2. Some cheaper designs are also better. Anybody want to go back to mechanical fuel injection?
I find it hard to believe that Delco, STP, Bosch, and others would allow their supplier to change to a unreliable design. I am sure they asked many hard questions and demanded to see a mountain of data.
Has anybody found their web page? Look under investor relations and se what they are telling their stock holders.
Since there is little history of quality problems with the steel encaps and center tube, economics must be the driving force behind this design change. Either prices go up, or the design changes. The filters that were widely available for $3 5 years ago, are now more like $4. I bought many AC's at K-Mart for $2. Some cheaper designs are also better. Anybody want to go back to mechanical fuel injection?
I find it hard to believe that Delco, STP, Bosch, and others would allow their supplier to change to a unreliable design. I am sure they asked many hard questions and demanded to see a mountain of data.
Has anybody found their web page? Look under investor relations and se what they are telling their stock holders.
Purolater says:
PureOne filters meet the flow requirements of automotive applications. We
test our filters per SAE specification HS806 Chapter 1, and the standard
flow rate requirement that we follow states that the pressure differential
(between inlet and outlet) shall not exceed 3.0 psi at a flow rate of 3.0
gpm. On the PL30001 filters, flow restriction is 0.8 psi (avg) at 3.0 gpm.
__________________
Wonder if the ecore has been tested in this manner
PureOne filters meet the flow requirements of automotive applications. We
test our filters per SAE specification HS806 Chapter 1, and the standard
flow rate requirement that we follow states that the pressure differential
(between inlet and outlet) shall not exceed 3.0 psi at a flow rate of 3.0
gpm. On the PL30001 filters, flow restriction is 0.8 psi (avg) at 3.0 gpm.
__________________
Wonder if the ecore has been tested in this manner
Well as this thread is about the E-core design i'll post this in here although it relates to every other thread about an E-core filter.
Having talked to someone in the know at Champ I can relate the following:
Concerning those claiming it is a "cheap" design.
Champ has invested X0,000,000 dollars in the design and testing , equipment, plant upgrade, etc. That's between 10 and 50 Mil. I'm not spilling the beans exactly how much at this point in time.
Apparently there are patented processes involved.
As for the "felt" end caps.
Nothing could be further from the truth as to what the material is. It is a patented blend of cellulose and synthetic medias. The end caps do in fact add to the total efficiency and capacity for contaminant removal. There have been no failures due to the end caps or it's design.
( Then again their primary design isn't for people to cut filters open and pull them off )
The only "real" problem is that quick lubes, in some cases, are not tightening the filter per the requirement on the filter can itself due to the "lightness" of the filter. DYI'ers are not having the same problem. Probably because they care about their own cars a bit more than the get them in, get them out boys.
(So as per any brand of filter, follow the torquing instructions on the filter. You would think people do..
)
As you know many private label brands of Champ are or will have this design.
Get used to it.
Having talked to someone in the know at Champ I can relate the following:
Concerning those claiming it is a "cheap" design.
Champ has invested X0,000,000 dollars in the design and testing , equipment, plant upgrade, etc. That's between 10 and 50 Mil. I'm not spilling the beans exactly how much at this point in time.
Apparently there are patented processes involved.
As for the "felt" end caps.
Nothing could be further from the truth as to what the material is. It is a patented blend of cellulose and synthetic medias. The end caps do in fact add to the total efficiency and capacity for contaminant removal. There have been no failures due to the end caps or it's design.
( Then again their primary design isn't for people to cut filters open and pull them off )
The only "real" problem is that quick lubes, in some cases, are not tightening the filter per the requirement on the filter can itself due to the "lightness" of the filter. DYI'ers are not having the same problem. Probably because they care about their own cars a bit more than the get them in, get them out boys.
(So as per any brand of filter, follow the torquing instructions on the filter. You would think people do..
As you know many private label brands of Champ are or will have this design.
Get used to it.
One would think that, but from where would this data come? From Champ Labs, so it might be slightly skewed. As someone who has worked with private label autoparts, I can tell you that many times those people who have their name on the product are the last to know. Often, the only recourse is change suppliers. If Bosch suddenly becomes reboxed Wix, that might be a clue that all is no kosher with e-core. Of course, it could also be that Wix offered a lower price...
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