Barrel life

[OVERKILL]

Was reading on a review site about a .22 very similar to the one I think I'm picking up tomorrow and he made it a point to say this:

http://www.preciseshooter.com/blog/SavageMKIIFV.aspx

Quote:
I like rimfire rifles a lot. They are cheap to shoot both in terms of time and money. They are indestructible: a rimfire barrel has a life time of 50000-100000 rounds, whereas a centerfire barrel is gone after a few thousand shots.


Which I know is a gross generalization but I remember somebody mentioning barrel life in my .308 thread and that this cartridge was easy on barrels and this got me thinking about that.

What is the typical barrel life for a rifle? I know a 300 Win Mag for example is harder on a barrel than a .308. How does that compare to my .338 Lapua Mag though? My .270? .223?

And when it is replacement time, how do you know? And would it be wise to upgrade to a Hart barrel or something along those lines or just get a new Savage barrel for the gun in question?

I'm sure these seem like newb questions to some of you but I've never worn out a gun before so....

 

[123Saab]

I'll answer one question.

When the rifling is visually rounded its time to rebarrel.

but....

It might be fixed with a crowning job too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
I'll answer one question.

When the rifling is visually rounded its time to rebarrel.

but....

It might be fixed with a crowning job too.



That's an interesting point. Both the .338LM and the .308WIN have a brake as part of the barrel assembly (not sure if they are removable) so I would think a rebarrel on those would be more involved/expensive than on something like my .223 or .270.

 

[123Saab]

Crowning is easy to do yourself BTW.

Ive done it on some of my 300m competition rifles back in the day.

 

[bubbatime]

Generally speaking, a barrel from a higher pressure round will have a much shorter life than a low pressure round. I'm not too up on .338 LM , .300 WIN, and .308 pressures, but I can tell you that a 5.56 barrel is usually good for about 25K rounds before accuracy stars to fade and the rounds begin to keyhole using brass cased ammo. Using Russian steel case ammo, the barrel life is effectively halved.

 

[tom slick]

I have a .22-250 with a worn out throat and barrel. They are a high pressure round and are known for wearing out the barrel in 2000 rounds.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I can tell you that a 5.56 barrel is usually good for about 25K rounds before accuracy stars to fade and the rounds begin to keyhole using brass cased ammo. Using Russian steel case ammo, the barrel life is effectively halved.


Are you saying the Russian ammo that has a steel case over the bullet, or you talking about the case the powder is in being steel?

 

[Shannow]

Erosion starts at the chamber, through ablation (metal literally vaporised), and erosion from moving gas/powder etc. on the hot metal.

Think of the cartridge like a cylinder, and the smaller the cartridge is in relation to the bore, the more expansion takes place, and the cooler the gasses are for longer.

A .22 bullet only has to move an inch, and the chamber volume is doubled, and the gasses expansion means that they are cooler...visualise a .223, .22-250 etc. and how much case volume there is...big cases hold pressure (and temperature) longer, and create greater velocity of both the projectile and the gasses.

Different powders burn "hotter"...cordite was a shocker, having a lot of nitrogycerine in it, single base like Varget (made in Oz) are nitrated cellulose, and burn a bit cooler. (Interestingly, Cordite had a reasonable amount of petroleum jelly in it to vaporise and reduce the heat in the chamber)

Full bore shooters around here monitor their OAL when reloading to follow the rifling as it erodes, and get 1,500 rounds or so out of them. Some shoot to 3-5,000, some set the barrel back and rechamber, some sell the barrels cheaply to a less well heeled shooter, who sets the barrel back a tab when fitted to their rifle.

.223, and they go for 6,000+ before they get worried.

 

[demarpaint]

Shannow pretty much nailed it. It all depends on the round you're shooting and how good you shoot. A seasoned bench rest shooter will know his barrel is going south a lot sooner than the average plinker will. Typically a bad barrel will yield a flyer, or start shooting a spray pattern. The progression is usually slow, the groups will open up and then you get the flyers.

Some shooters re-chamber and re-crown and get some additional life barrel life, others toss them. Keep in mind when you re-chamber you're cutting your barrel and making it shorter. Some guys who plan on re-chambering will start off with a barrel 30" or longer, and just keep setting it back. A 6.5x284 is one of the kings of barrel burners, some are shot out in 700-800 rounds. The 338 Lapua isn't that easy on a barrel, your .308 is. The good news is a Savage is one of the easiest rifles to re-barrel, or set up as a switch barrel rifle. You can also look into coating your bullets if you re-load. A lot of BR shooters claim coating the bullets with MoS2, WS2 {AKA Danzac, or HBN, extends barrel life and makes cleaning easier. I use MoS2 and WS2, and have found cleaning to be easier. I can't comment about barrel life just yet, and it is a heated topic I'd rather not get into. David Tubb a world class shooter uses HBN I believe and swears by it. He is a believer in coating bullets.

You mentioned Hart barrels, which are very good so are Lilja, and Mike Rock 5 R barrels, which probably last a little longer than a Hart or Lilja because of the way they are made. Hart and Lilja barrels might be a tad more accurate, but that statement could start a war similar to a thick vs. thin oil war. I like the Rock 5R barrels, Kreiger, and Brux, they all use a similar cut barrel process. Read up on 5R barrels, how they're made is different than the button process Hart and Lilja use.

IIRC there is someone selling pre-chambered Savage barrels, its been a while so my memory is a little fuzzy. With a little reading you can re-barrel a Savage a lot easier than lets say a Remington 700. Either way a Savage is less costly to re barrel if and when you do it. I have a Lilja barrel, 2 Rock 5R barrels, and a Brux barrel waiting to be built into something. It is addicting.

 

[Win]

I wish I could shoot enough to wear out a barrel.

Any barrel.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks guys!

demarpaint:

Kreiger looks like they could send me a new (5R) barrel chambered, setup and ready to go on, that doesn't appear to be the case with Mike Rock

They (Krieger) have .338LM as well as 50BMG listed in their waiting list so I'm thinking they are probably the logical choice. They seem to be a big shop with a solid reputation and the ability to give me a complete "ready to bolt on" piece when I end up needing it

Thanks for the recommendation

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Win
I wish I could shoot enough to wear out a barrel.

Any barrel.
Not many do. More, excluding .gov/.mil, barrels are worn out by cleaning than shooting.

 

[Sonataman]

.22 rimfire barrel life is a lot shorter than most people think. In as little as 5k rounds, the 6 oclock area already has a little checking and some erosion. It comes from all the left over powder and primer mixture laying at 6 o'clock in the barrel and every round pounds over it. The primer mixture contains a nasty and very abrasive mix, with glass.

Now, the barrel will still stabilise the bullet for a very long time, but ultimate accuracy is gone before 10k rounds in most cases.

And THAT is the question and the answer, barrel life is only as long as you consider it good enough for your needs...

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Sonataman
.22 rimfire barrel life is a lot shorter than most people think. In as little as 5k rounds, the 6 oclock area already has a little checking and some erosion. It comes from all the left over powder and primer mixture laying at 6 o'clock in the barrel and every round pounds over it. The primer mixture contains a nasty and very abrasive mix, with glass.

Now, the barrel will still stabilise the bullet for a very long time, but ultimate accuracy is gone before 10k rounds in most cases.

And THAT is the question and the answer, barrel life is only as long as you consider it good enough for your needs...


Tell that to Eley regarding the test guns they use to check accuracy of the .22 ammo they manufacture.

They obviously have no idea what they are doing.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Win
I wish I could shoot enough to wear out a barrel.

Any barrel.
Not many do. More, excluding .gov/.mil, barrels are worn out by cleaning than shooting.


Hatt - I gotta' ask:.what are folks using to clean that they are wearing out barrels? I just don't see how cotton soaked with Hoppe's causes any wear at all...maybe if they're using steel brushes, but with a bronze brush and patches?

 

[hatt]

The cleaning rod without a bore guide is the culprit.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: hatt
The cleaning rod without a bore guide is the culprit.


Ah, I see...but that's a steel cleaning rod, then, isn't it? I've got a brass cleaning rod that I use for everything...should I need a bore guide with that rod?

I'll be at my LGS this afternoon, so if I need anything, it's easy to procure...

Cheers,

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Thanks guys!

demarpaint:

Kreiger looks like they could send me a new (5R) barrel chambered, setup and ready to go on, that doesn't appear to be the case with Mike Rock

They (Krieger) have .338LM as well as 50BMG listed in their waiting list so I'm thinking they are probably the logical choice. They seem to be a big shop with a solid reputation and the ability to give me a complete "ready to bolt on" piece when I end up needing it

Thanks for the recommendation

Grab it! They make a great barrel. A Rock barrel would have to be sent to a smith to be chambered, I don't think they sell them pre-chambered.

I bought barrel blanks, in the length caliber and twist for my stash. They will eventually be build into something. I was thinking 6.5x55 Swede next.

 

[Sonataman]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: Sonataman
.22 rimfire barrel life is a lot shorter than most people think. In as little as 5k rounds, the 6 oclock area already has a little checking and some erosion. It comes from all the left over powder and primer mixture laying at 6 o'clock in the barrel and every round pounds over it. The primer mixture contains a nasty and very abrasive mix, with glass.

Now, the barrel will still stabilise the bullet for a very long time, but ultimate accuracy is gone before 10k rounds in most cases.

And THAT is the question and the answer, barrel life is only as long as you consider it good enough for your needs...


Tell that to Eley regarding the test guns they use to check accuracy of the .22 ammo they manufacture.

They obviously have no idea what they are doing.


All you have to do is ask any top level rimfire benchrest shooter. I was never at the top but competed 4 years.
Won a good few club matches and even shot high target (target #8) at the ARA nationals.
My good friend is many time national champ in several disciplines and is also a World Champion.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: hatt
The cleaning rod without a bore guide is the culprit.


Ah, I see...but that's a steel cleaning rod, then, isn't it? I've got a brass cleaning rod that I use for everything...should I need a bore guide with that rod?

I'll be at my LGS this afternoon, so if I need anything, it's easy to procure...

Cheers,

The rod can pick up abrasive material out of the bore.