I don't see the point of M1 5w40

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: AndrewD
Less viscosity improvers on the 5W-40?

Yes, typically about 12% VII for 0W-40 and 9% VII for 5W-40.

0W-40 also has a thinner base oil -- a mix of 4 cSt and 6 cSt -- and 5W-40 has a thicker base oil -- a mix of 6 cSt and 8 cSt. This results in an about 10% NOACK for 0W-40 and 7% NOACK for 5W-40. Of course, the 0W-40 can tolerate much colder engine-start temperatures than the 5W-40.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I don't see the point in 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, or 10W-40.

0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, and 15W-40 for diesels would take care of everything.

Shear stability? Cost of production?

Demand.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Funny that I'm out of the loop on this one, but when I was poking through the oil aisles of Canadian Tire last night I noticed for the first time that M1 now has a new 5w40 that they are selling. I just don't honestly see the point of this oil, they have already had the very good 0w40 on the market for so long, what advantage would anyone have if they ran the new 5w40 instead? Or is just a marketing thing for people with cars that spec out 5w40 and refuse to put anything but that exact viscosity in their engines? I'm going to continue to run the 0w40 in my wife's Jetta, even though it calls for 5w40.


I'm mystified. You've been on this board for 11 years, have 19,000 posts, run M1 in all your vehicles, and you haven't previously heard of M1 5w40 grades?
Or is it truly a new M1 5w40 variant that you have seen?
It wasn't TurboDiesel Truck? That's the only M1 5w40 variant that I see in stores on a regular basis.
It wasn't ESP Formula M? I've never seen this one in stores. But I'm guessing this is the one you saw. It is a low-SAPS oil that only has M-B 229.31 & 229.51 for builder approvals. It's ash content is about half of M1 0w40.
It wasn't Delvac 1? I see this at truck stops occasionally.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Mobil 1 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck is the one I used to see all the time. It was at Walmart,but in 4 quart jugs and not 5 quart ones.

Our TDT is usually in five litre jugs up here, which isn't the "normal" Imperial Oil way to do things - we usually get 4.4 L jugs. Delvac usually comes in 4 L jugs.

Patman: Did you happen to notice the specs on the bottle? I didn't think CT was routinely carrying TDT, so one never knows if it's anything else. On my sell sheets, TDT isn't listed, but that's not sold directly to consumers by Imperial Oil anyhow. The only 5w-40 oils my sell sheet lists are Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 ESP 5w-40 and Mobil 1 ESP Formula M. Of the last two, the former is only available in a 208 L container and the latter in litre bottles.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: AndrewD
Less viscosity improvers on the 5W-40?

Yes, typically about 12% VII for 0W-40 and 9% VII for 5W-40.

0W-40 also has a thinner base oil -- a mix of 4 cSt and 6 cSt -- and 5W-40 has a thicker base oil -- a mix of 6 cSt and 8 cSt. This results in an about 10% NOACK for 0W-40 and 7% NOACK for 5W-40. Of course, the 0W-40 can tolerate much colder engine-start temperatures than the 5W-40.


I would love if you could share the source of the above as when I discussed this with Solarent some time back the base oil blend was heavier than that IIRC.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
5W-40 you saw is probably an API CJ-4 / ACEA E9 -- intended for heavy-duty diesel engines. Don't use it in a gasoline engine even though it'll have the API SM spec as well. It has too much soot dispersants that you don't need in a gasoline engine and the additive pack is formulated primarily for heavy-duty diesel engines.


It's a different oil than Delvac 1 or the 5w40 that they've had up here for many years which was the "turbo diesel truck" oil. It's the ESP Formula M. It's actually not listed on the Canadian Mobil 1 website, just the US site, although I guess nobody has spotted it on the shelves down there yet? Here is the link to it:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I'm mystified. You've been on this board for 11 years, have 19,000 posts, run M1 in all your vehicles, and you haven't previously heard of M1 5w40 grades?
Or is it truly a new M1 5w40 variant that you have seen?


As mentioned, it is a completely new 5w40, not Delvac 1 or the Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, both of which I'm completely familiar with. So given that, I'm puzzled as to the need for this new oil, when 0w40 has already proven itself to be a great oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I'm mystified. You've been on this board for 11 years, have 19,000 posts, run M1 in all your vehicles, and you haven't previously heard of M1 5w40 grades?
Or is it truly a new M1 5w40 variant that you have seen?


As mentioned, it is a completely new 5w40, not Delvac 1 or the Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, both of which I'm completely familiar with. So given that, I'm puzzled as to the need for this new oil, when 0w40 has already proven itself to be a great oil.


Was it the ESP 5w-40?

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL




Was it the ESP 5w-40?


Yes

 

[dailydriver]

As has been mentioned, it is for those specific Merc specs and other low SAPS Euro car specs.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
As has been mentioned, it is for those specific Merc specs and other low SAPS Euro car specs.

This. The ESP oil is very different (low SAPS) from M1 0w-40 (full SAPS) and carries different certifications because of it.

One is not a replacement for the other

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: AndrewD
Less viscosity improvers on the 5W-40?

Yes, typically about 12% VII for 0W-40 and 9% VII for 5W-40.

0W-40 also has a thinner base oil -- a mix of 4 cSt and 6 cSt -- and 5W-40 has a thicker base oil -- a mix of 6 cSt and 8 cSt. This results in an about 10% NOACK for 0W-40 and 7% NOACK for 5W-40. Of course, the 0W-40 can tolerate much colder engine-start temperatures than the 5W-40.


I would love if you could share the source of the above as when I discussed this with Solarent some time back the base oil blend was heavier than that IIRC.


I think he is using an old Mobil Formulations Guide.

Mobil FG

Those were simply Mobil's suggestions for use with their products with the Infineum PI (additive) packages.

There are many other base oil viscosity combinations to arrive at 0W40's and 5W40's using various combinations of low and high viscosity base oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: AndrewD
Less viscosity improvers on the 5W-40?

Yes, typically about 12% VII for 0W-40 and 9% VII for 5W-40.

0W-40 also has a thinner base oil -- a mix of 4 cSt and 6 cSt -- and 5W-40 has a thicker base oil -- a mix of 6 cSt and 8 cSt. This results in an about 10% NOACK for 0W-40 and 7% NOACK for 5W-40. Of course, the 0W-40 can tolerate much colder engine-start temperatures than the 5W-40.


I would love if you could share the source of the above as when I discussed this with Solarent some time back the base oil blend was heavier than that IIRC.


I think he is using an old Mobil Formulations Guide.

Mobil FG

Those were simply Mobil's suggestions for use with their products with the Infineum PI (additive) packages.

There are many other base oil viscosity combinations to arrive at 0W40's and 5W40's using various combinations of low and high viscosity base oils.




Thanks Mola