Major stabbing incident at highschool in PA

[supton]

Originally Posted By: expat
As a side note:
Sorry, I'd rather take my chances against a whacko with a Knife than a Whacko with a Gun any day.
Not in the same league.



Hmm, I dunno, I might prefer the gun. The movies make it look really easy to hit a moving target. Reality seems to run more along the lines of most rounds fired miss their intended target, either because of poor markmanship or the shooter couldn't keep up with a moving target. Neither is a great choice to be up against. But I think the close proximity of a knife-wielding person makes it much harder to react while it *may* be easier to thwart a shooter by simply moving in erratic movements while attempting to gain distance, cover or time.

I've never taken a class on how to defend myself against a knife. I've never needed to be taught on how to run away.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: whip

In almost every school shooting, there were signs. Very loud signs that were ignored. This will get worse before it gets better. I worry every single day about my son. My parents knew I was safe at school.


What are these loud signs from a quiet kid? (This isn't a rhetorical question.) There are 1000s of quiet kids who keep to themselves. With the typical staff/kid ratio a kid who doesn't stir up trouble sure does get ignored. I'd like schools to be a bit more inspirational and attentive, but life in general can be blah for many as well, once you get out. If schools are suddenly great through some magic wand action then we'll have workplace violence when folks haven't yet come to grips with their emotions at their first jobs.


In the case of the Arapahoe High School shooter, (who used a sporting 12 gauge shotgun, legal to own in all 50 states and Canada, by the way, but illegal for him to bring to school), there were clear signs that had been brought to the attention of administrators, who failed to act. I have a close personal friend (we go back to Cub Scouts) who is a teacher at that school. He gave me many, many details in confidence so I won't repeat them, but trust me, every teacher knew that kid was at risk...


I think it's evident this has been the case with all the recent school shooting/violence incidents. The problem is, and my mom has been a public school teacher for over 30 years now, is that teachers and administrators are legally handcuffed into doing anything about the kids everyone knows need help. Back in the day, you could literally grab a kid, drag him/her to the kids parents and say little Johnny needs help, and the parents would do something about it. Not today. Teachers and school officials are terrified of lawsuits from parents about anything, and most parents will not accept that they have to actually be parents and help their kids learn right from wrong. My mom talks about it all the time; the minute you bring up an issue with a student, most parents today get infuriated and automatically think their child is special, perfect, and doesn't need an actual parent and they stick their heads in the sand. Our society and school system scares me more and more everyday with the direction we're headed.

 

[Mystic]

A determined person with a knife can successfully attack a person armed with a gun. This has been demonstrated time and time again in several situations where a person armed with a knife attacked a police officer armed with a gun.

In this school attack obviously the kid armed with the two knives was able to injure several people.

Instead of worrying about what weapon was used we need to find some ways to prevent the attacks. That involves effective mental health. We have to look at the attacker and not what weapon the attacker used.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT


I think it's evident this has been the case with all the recent school shooting/violence incidents. The problem is, and my mom has been a public school teacher for over 30 years now, is that teachers and administrators are legally handcuffed into doing anything about the kids everyone knows need help. Back in the day, you could literally grab a kid, drag him/her to the kids parents and say little Johnny needs help, and the parents would do something about it. Not today. Teachers and school officials are terrified of lawsuits from parents about anything, and most parents will not accept that they have to actually be parents and help their kids learn right from wrong. My mom talks about it all the time; the minute you bring up an issue with a student, most parents today get infuriated and automatically think their child is special, perfect, and doesn't need an actual parent and they stick their heads in the sand. Our society and school system scares me more and more everyday with the direction we're headed.


My mom taught Special Ed. You think the regular kids are bad.... woooo eeee! Spec Ed bumps it up a couple of notches

Your mom is 100% right though, that's exactly what has happened. Now imagine kids with severe learning disabilities, brain problems, behavioural issues or combinations of those things and then having the parents behave in the same way.....

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT


I think it's evident this has been the case with all the recent school shooting/violence incidents. The problem is, and my mom has been a public school teacher for over 30 years now, is that teachers and administrators are legally handcuffed into doing anything about the kids everyone knows need help. Back in the day, you could literally grab a kid, drag him/her to the kids parents and say little Johnny needs help, and the parents would do something about it. Not today. Teachers and school officials are terrified of lawsuits from parents about anything, and most parents will not accept that they have to actually be parents and help their kids learn right from wrong. My mom talks about it all the time; the minute you bring up an issue with a student, most parents today get infuriated and automatically think their child is special, perfect, and doesn't need an actual parent and they stick their heads in the sand. Our society and school system scares me more and more everyday with the direction we're headed.


My mom taught Special Ed. You think the regular kids are bad.... woooo eeee! Spec Ed bumps it up a couple of notches

Your mom is 100% right though, that's exactly what has happened. Now imagine kids with severe learning disabilities, brain problems, behavioural issues or combinations of those things and then having the parents behave in the same way.....

My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT


My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.


Bingo!

In an attempt to make "everybody equal" (which of course they aren't) to appease the liberal hand-wringers and to "not offend", they are literally crippling the efforts made to allow those kids to exist and be productive in society. They NEED special attention. They NEED to be singled out because they are NOT normal and that's OK!!! Sweet [censored], I'm a far cry from normal and I'm bloody well fine with that!

It sure as heck wasn't the kids griping about their special treatment. The teachers trained to deal with behavioural students were a heck of a lot better equipped than your average classroom director and so now that Jimmy can't get his special one-on-one, his marks drop, he can't relate to any of his peers in his mainstream classroom and he's frustrated! These efforts to pretend he "fits in" so that he isn't singled out have ultimately done far more harm than good. He's bombing the regular curriculum so now he's just a failure instead of being singled out. Great job

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Bingo!

In an attempt to make "everybody equal" (which of course they aren't) to appease the liberal hand-wringers and to "not offend", they are literally crippling the efforts made to allow those kids to exist and be productive in society. They NEED special attention. They NEED to be singled out because they are NOT normal and that's OK!!! Sweet [censored], I'm a far cry from normal and I'm bloody well fine with that!

Absolutely spot on! And back in the day, many of those kids that were singled out, attended to appropriately, given the care they needed etc., they went on to become highly successful people! It's like today, they are trying to churn out cookie cutter kids/robots. They have good intentions (I think..........), but the methods they are using to boost test scores and get every kid to go to college.........the current outcomes/consequences speak for themselves. It's a disaster.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.

The corporatization of education at work... Administrators have to justify their jobs and therefore make up metrics and policies until the teacher can't teach anymore and the principal can't do their job either.
Maybe they will make up a metric for student body happiness, and the feeling of community in a school sometime. For some kids, the real job is to teach them how to behave successfully in the real world, not try to make them score well on a standardized test.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.

The corporatization of education at work... Administrators have to justify their jobs and therefore make up metrics and policies until the teacher can't teach anymore and the principal can't do their job either.
Maybe they will make up a metric for student body happiness, and the feeling of community in a school sometime. For some kids, the real job is to teach them how to behave successfully in the real world, not try to make them score well on a standardized test.


Agreed.

Standardized teaching only works with a standard student. Anybody who is on either end of the spectrum outside of the "normal" range generally gets alienated by a system that doesn't seem to understand them, can't relate to them and can't truly accommodate them. An exceptional child is just as difficult for this type of system to deal with as a hindered child. Both need proper support to succeed in this environment and we are actively pulling away from that because we want to pretend, as a society, that they are normal.

 

[expat]

Agree, Agree, Agree.

Teachers CAN some of the most influential people we meet in our lives.

A committee does not make a good teacher.

 

[Mystic]

I have some friends that I travel with and the woman's daughter has an autistic son. They were going to try to put him in a regular school with other children but there was just no way. He is being home schooled using the internet.

The boy does travel with us but sometimes he is a problem. For example, we can't take him anywhere near a place that has bowling because if he sees that he will insist on playing and he simply will not stop. He will go berserk if he is told it is time to go. And he will sometimes sing along with certain songs but he will rarely if ever communicate in a sentence. Usually he will just repeat one word. He is actually pretty smart. He has other strange behavior like walking on his toes. And any sort of loud noise like fireworks or crowd noise is unbearable for him. He would not be able to function in a regular school very easily.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

The corporatization of education at work... Administrators have to justify their jobs and therefore make up metrics and policies until the teacher can't teach anymore and the principal can't do their job either.
Maybe they will make up a metric for student body happiness, and the feeling of community in a school sometime. For some kids, the real job is to teach them how to behave successfully in the real world, not try to make them score well on a standardized test.

Perhaps if students and parents could choose where to go to school....

 

[Fleetmon]

OVERKILL nailed it! Pretending someone is "normal" when they're clearly not actually singles them out more. Adults spend way too much time trying to protect kids than kids actually need....it's been said before - I ran with scissors, played with matches, never had a bike helmet and I grew up in spite of it.

I pity the kid who tears his breakfast Poptart into the shape of a knife....Oh my, the anti-knivers are gonna have a field day with that one.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT


My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.


Maybe in Colorado, but this is as much broad brush as anything. All the "classified" kids get their own aide/EA (not that I necessarily agree with that 100%), assuming that the kids can function in the classroom. If not, then there is a special school for them. The child study team and the parents work together to identify the best process. Yes, sometimes parents threaten/do sue to get what they want, and the "Lawyers' Monopoly" has made these costs so high that the schools must bend over backwards to prevent excessive litigation cost (at a substantial cost to the district for the services).

Its the lawyers and the costs associated with them doing their monopolized thing that drives many of the bad and costly decisions.

 

[spasm3]

We don't remove the problem children and put the burden of behavior on the parents shoulders. Schools are expected to teach social skills and morals instead of math science and english. Instead we keep the bad out of control students in the class room and run the class room to the lowest bar to accommodate them. Then we make up for it by calling the sheriff for plastic knives in lunch boxes and poptarts eaten into the shape of a gun. Keep catering to the lowest denominator and what we have here will increase as parents are not expected to deal with their off spring, the schools or the government will do it for them. Then when huge numbers are in prison its society s problem, not portrayed as society expecting parents to do their job. But as society needing to fork over more money so the schools and govenment can raise the kids.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
My mom used to cry about what has happened and now she just throws here hands up and laughs. They throw the special ed kids/autistic kids in the regular classrooms now so as not to upset the parents are single the special needs kids out! It's pure insanity. Common sense gone mad for the liberalization/standardization of classrooms. There is no more individual attention. It's sad really. The old teachers see the downfall and the new crop of teachers don't' care, are too naive to know what's going on, or are too scared of backlash to do anything about it. They're all bombarded with standardized tests and all kids of nonsense when they should be left to do their jobs and teach kids the best they know how, which includes using their brains and common sense to spot and single out kids that have obvious problems and are threats to themselves and the rest of the school.

The corporatization of education at work... Administrators have to justify their jobs and therefore make up metrics and policies until the teacher can't teach anymore and the principal can't do their job either.
Maybe they will make up a metric for student body happiness, and the feeling of community in a school sometime. For some kids, the real job is to teach them how to behave successfully in the real world, not try to make them score well on a standardized test.


Don't know how it is in Canada, but here in Ohio it is POLITICIANS that feel that they have to justify their jobs and spew policies that are counterproductive until the teacher can't teach any more and the principal can't do their job either.