2013 GTI Follow Up UOA

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Jeffs2006EvoIX

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Hello Everyone, as promised for this vehicle as well, 2013 VW GTI 2.0T Using M1 0w40. On this report it shows 3 reports. Newest on the left. 2 of the 3 are with M1 0w40, The one with the lowest 100c is PU 5w40. The M1 was used back to back.

I dont like how the Iron level is high, not blaming the oil, but with the car just turning 15k miles, could be breaking in still.

I was considering using a LOW SAPS oil next time around. Waiting on EDYVW's UOA on ESP 5w30 before I consider switching since he runs a car with the same motor.

Was considering Castrol 0w30 too. The thing is, its not that I dont like M1, but why use a 40w oil, if it doesn't stay a 40w regardless if it falls within spec or not?

Wouldn't it be better to use an oil that stays "in grade" for the span of the Oil Change? I would think anything that is breaking down in there that causes it to go from a light 40w to a heavy 30w isn't good.

That is just my thoughts from hind sight. Car runs well on the 0w40 and I have no complaints.

Thoughts?

[img:left][/img]
 
The iron isn't high, 12ppm is nothing.

And it definitely sheared a lot less than the PU 5w-40
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TBN was still decent, flashpoint nice and high....etc. I think it is an excellent report
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I agree with you. No worries from me, just like to see what you guys think. The car runs great on the stuff and I can buy it at Wallyworld on the cheap. Not that I am cheap, but why spend more if you dont have to?

Copper levels have dropped too Im happy to see that, and this time around the M1 did hold its Vis@100 better than last time. Also TBN was better even though I went farther on the oil.

Of note, I did switch brands of gas this last oil cycle. From 76 to Chevron. Could that be a reason why the TBN held better? Just a thought.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I dont like how the Iron level is high,

You've got to be kidding. 12ppm of iron over 5K miles is not high by any standard.

Quote:

Wouldn't it be better to use an oil that stays "in grade" for the span of the Oil Change? I would think anything that is breaking down in there that causes it to go from a light 40w to a heavy 30w isn't good.

But a heavy 30-grade oil like GC will thin out in a DI/Turbo engine, too. It'll stay in grade, because there is plenty of room between heavy 30-grade and thin 30-grade, but percentage wise, the viscosity drop will be similar to M1 0w-40. I don't know how many times I can repeat myself on this subject.

I'm still somewhat surprised how high TAN is, alas, it seems to have stayed at around the same level despite a longer OCI, so at least that's somewhat good.


Bottom line: any of these oils that you mentioned and/or used will serve you just fine over a 5K OCI. The rest is just splitting hair, which is our specialty here on BITOG.
smile.gif
 
Blackstone keeps telling me the TAN is fine. I always check TAN every sample with this car.

I know what you mean about oil shearing, but seems the car shows Less Iron wear with a 3k oil change vs a 5k. Economically would be a waste to dump the oil at 3k, but its just something I have noticed.

The car runs fine on M1 and I can get it fairly cheap and dont have to hunt for it. I like that.

I am hearing good reviews in the VW world that the Castrol 0w40 is showing good results as well.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am hearing good reviews in the VW world that the Castrol 0w40 is showing good results as well.

Got a link to any of their UOAs by any chance?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I dont like how the Iron level is high,

You've got to be kidding. 12ppm of iron over 5K miles is not high by any standard.

Quote:

Wouldn't it be better to use an oil that stays "in grade" for the span of the Oil Change? I would think anything that is breaking down in there that causes it to go from a light 40w to a heavy 30w isn't good.

But a heavy 30-grade oil like GC will thin out in a DI/Turbo engine, too. It'll stay in grade, because there is plenty of room between heavy 30-grade and thin 30-grade, but percentage wise, the viscosity drop will be similar to M1 0w-40. I don't know how many times I can repeat myself on this subject.

I'm still somewhat surprised how high TAN is, alas, it seems to have stayed at around the same level despite a longer OCI, so at least that's somewhat good.


Bottom line: any of these oils that you mentioned and/or used will serve you just fine over a 5K OCI. The rest is just splitting hair, which is our specialty here on BITOG.
smile.gif




I am not used to DI motors and not used to oil shearing. I am learning. In my past cars running 26-28psi on E85 didn't have oil shear like this.

I am learning.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I know what you mean about oil shearing, but seems the car shows Less Iron wear with a 3k oil change vs a 5k. Economically would be a waste to dump the oil at 3k, but its just something I have noticed.

Most recent UOA is 2.3ppm Fe per 1000 miles.
The one before that was 2.7ppm Fe per 1000 miles.
The one before that was 4.5ppm Fe per 1000 miles.

I'd say you're doing better with 5K OCI's. 12ppm Fe is fine.

And I agree with Pete. Shearing down a grade means nothing, because SAE grades are arbitrary. All that matters is shear ratio in cSt.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am hearing good reviews in the VW world that the Castrol 0w40 is showing good results as well.

Got a link to any of their UOAs by any chance?


When I see them will post them for you.

Jeff
 
Thanks for taking the time to look guys. Appreciate it. Most of you know oil WWAAYY better than I do.

In my past tracked cars, I just changed the oil often, used RL 5w30 and never had issues haha. The DI fuel delivery I feel is to blame for some issues like the shearing, or has that always been the case with 0w40 products?

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The DI fuel delivery I feel is to blame for some issues like the shearing, or has that always been the case with 0w40 products?

I think fuel dilution is at least partly to blame. Even though fuel did not show up in the sample, it's likely the fuel was there at some point before and cased the oil to shear.

I ran M1 0w-40 for 11K miles in the wife's C300 (non-DI) and it was still the 40-grade range.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I know what you mean about oil shearing, but seems the car shows Less Iron wear with a 3k oil change vs a 5k. Economically would be a waste to dump the oil at 3k, but its just something I have noticed.

Most recent UOA is 2.3ppm Fe per 1000 miles.
The one before that was 2.7ppm Fe per 1000 miles.
The one before that was 4.5ppm Fe per 1000 miles.

I'd say you're doing better with 5K OCI's. 12ppm Fe is fine.

And I agree with Pete. Shearing down a grade means nothing, because SAE grades are arbitrary. All that matters is shear ratio in cSt.


Thank God for doing the math to show the ratio, I was about to go crazy after reading OP's logic to change the oil early based on the fact that 5000 produced more wear then 3000?

So you want a wear free engine? Drain the lube and park it then, which still may not be the best in the long run...
 
I am sending M1 5W30 ESP to Blackstone on Monday. Need to change oil this weekend, I am over 3K. We will see whether it will be possible to do 5K OCI.
Considering this report. It shows that TBN retention is better then in my OCI, although in my OCI M1 stayed well in 40 grade (13.3). However, TBN was 2.6. I think that is due to CA fuel=less sulphur. Maybe it sheared due to more city driving. I am doing probably 80% of HWY driving, so that is I think the reason why it did not shear more and flashpoint was at 425.
 
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Run the oil longer unless you're constrained by the manufacturer recommended OCI.

This is Low-SAPS. 2.0T are hard on oil, even some High-SAPS cannot retain TBN properly. My 5K OCi on M1, TBN was at 2.6.
 
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