Major stabbing incident at highschool in PA

[Clevy]

If it wasn't a knife a broken bottle works just as effectively. Or a hammer or just about anything else.

My point is a person with the intentions of hurting someone is going to hurt someone.
I've seen gruesome bottle attacks,in fact I was stabbed in the throat with a bottle at a party I threw. Hit my carotid artery.

So whether or not a population is armed or not isn't going to make a luck of difference. If a person with malice in their heart wants to hurt people they will find a way.
I saw a guy get brained with a rock the size of a persons fist. We gonna outlaw rocks too?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I think we need a lot of work in the mental health area in this country and I also think there needs to be solutions to problems like bullying in schools. Now, I am not saying there is any evidence of bullying here in this incident but the problem of bullying in schools does need to be addressed.

And I don't think anybody will argue that we need improvement in mental health treatment in this country.


I could not agree more.

BUT, the above will NEVER happen until the 'Friday Night Lights' pseudo-macho type attitudes still VERY prevalent in this country (stronger and more REQUIRED in some parts of this land than others) are gone forever.
You know, the "you're not a 'real man' unless you do this or that" type ****, as well as the apologetic attitudes ("they are just boys being boys" BEE ESS) for bullying/picking on those 'weaker' than oneself.

Here's MY "am not"

; I am NOT talking about banning sports or competition, or the lefty libby attitude that seemingly EVERYONE on here HATES of giving a trophy/medal to EVERYONE.

Just call out the supposedly macho/tough bullies and lowlives, and point out to them (and others) THEIR inadequacies/WEAKNESSES as the reason for THEM behaving this way.

Lastly, there are two MAJOR attitudes/worldviews holding back, and blocking the way for your (AND my) call for more of a focus on mental health in this country;
1) The same whole pseudo-macho attitude like "NOTHING is wrong with you, 'man up'/etc." bee ess when there is no apparent PHYSICAL problem that many in this land STILL have.

2) The whole extreme austerity attitude prevalent on this site, and in many (if not almost ALL) areas of this country, and the unwillingness to spend a 'red cent' on mental health, NO MATTER WHAT the payoff will be.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
I'm just thankful he didn't have a gun since surely there would have been deaths if he did.


A knife is considered a lethal weapon by Police, if the person is within 21' of the officer and showing intent. Police will shoot anyone showing intent with a knife within that distance.

Some of the stabbing victims still might die. Not everyone that is shot will automatically die either.

A lethal weapon is a lethal weapon.


My thoughts are with the injured and their families.

 

[Cutehumor]

what's the matter with kids now a days!?!

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver

2) The whole extreme austerity attitude prevalent on this site, and in many (if not almost ALL) areas of this country, and the unwillingness to spend a 'red cent' on mental health, NO MATTER WHAT the payoff will be.

These are all good points and I'll add my own, that some feel we just need the right "sifter" to sort the "goodies" from the "baddies" and there will never be a shade of gray and there will never be someone who turns into, or out of, the dark side. If the sifter isn't working it's because some civil servant schmuck didn't do their job with the crowd's 20/20 hindsight and we can blame elected so-and-so.

I also believe in the "we're crowded and over-stressed" worldview.

 

[Mystic]

Actually it was reported that there were a surprising number of injuries to the right sides of victims. Even though the attacker is apparently left handed. And kids were getting stabbed big time. There were so many stab wounds to the right sides of victims that some people were wondering about that-it was as if the attacker had deliberately done that.

A girl said that this guy was quiet, stayed to himself and did not seem to have many friends. There apparently was no indication that he was about ready to go off. But maybe other things will be found out in the investigation. If somebody is really acting strange and making threats somebody needs to let teachers know.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
A knife is considered a lethal weapon by Police, if the person is within 21' of the officer and showing intent. Police will shoot anyone showing intent with a knife within that distance.


Is that the "21 foot rule" that one of the Crowe brothers was speaking of a few episodes back on "Justified" just before he accidentally offed himself with his own blade??

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: 02SE
A knife is considered a lethal weapon by Police, if the person is within 21' of the officer and showing intent. Police will shoot anyone showing intent with a knife within that distance.


Is that the "21 foot rule" that one of the Crowe brothers was speaking of a few episodes back on "Justified" just before he accidentally offed himself with his own blade??

I assume you're talking about a TV show? I have no idea who the "Crowe" brothers are, or what "Justified" is.

My comment is based on what they teach Officers during training in the local PD.

 

[jrustles]

Get used to eating steak with a spoon, guys

 

[Mystic]

There is such a hangup with guns at least with this knife attack we can talk about what is important. It is not the weapon. It is the attacker. Why do this attacks take place and what needs to be done in areas like mental health, bullying, etc., to stop these events from happening.

Some people could not get past the gun issue. They were saying ban guns. That is what is needed. Well, obviously the attacker does not have to use a gun. The attacker could use a knife, a baseball bat, an automobile, a bomb, start a fire, whatever. We need to focus on the attacker. Sure, a gun might make it easier for the attacker. But this 16 year old high school student injured twenty people with two knives. And in a couple of examples I can think of a lot of people were injured by guys driving automobiles into crowds.

 

[Sam2000]

You may not agree with people who have concerns about guns, but it's a little belittling to say they have a hang up about them.

Indeed according to Gallup, 49% of people believe the laws concerning the sale of firearms should be more strict compared to 13% who think they should be less strict.

 

[eljefino]

You're going to have a rough time snooping into the quiet kids who keep to themselves. Look at the NSA watching our phones. If someone doesn't have a police record etc they look "just like us" before they snap.

This is one of those things you won't snuff out with just one layer of (whatever): mental health screening, weapons control, anti-bullying curriciulum, security, (voluntary) news embargoes. The goal should be "sticky pots" where every motion is mired up to the point of the assault, and of course hopefully diverted. Then the post-assault climax should be anti-dramatic and the perpetrator should "just disappear" into the system without notoriety.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
what's the matter with kids now a days!?!

Look at the adults in this world. Is it really a surprise that kids are messed up?

Originally Posted By: Mystic
There is such a hangup with guns at least with this knife attack we can talk about what is important. It is not the weapon. It is the attacker. Why do this attacks take place and what needs to be done in areas like mental health, bullying, etc., to stop these events from happening.

Yet every time there's a shooting, it's a gun problem. I've said all along it's a mental health problem. The sad truth is, getting help for the mentally ill, won't get you re-elected.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
You're going to have a rough time snooping into the quiet kids who keep to themselves. Look at the NSA watching our phones. If someone doesn't have a police record etc they look "just like us" before they snap.

In almost every school shooting, there were signs. Very loud signs that were ignored. This will get worse before it gets better. I worry every single day about my son. My parents knew I was safe at school.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: morepwr
That's just sad. If somebody wants to hurt a bunch of people, they will no matter what.

Now we will have to register our pocket knives.


The media doesn't seem to be interested in knives. Only guns. Which is why this isn't all over the news


It will be there when it's needed to be there...it's all over ours.

With surgeons recommending that kitchen knives be banned in Oz, Britain etc.

http://www.bmj.com/content/330/7502/1221

Chef's getting arrested for stopping at a pub after work, while "carrying" their tools of trade (didn't go immediately home from work), and an edict that a leatherman is a lethal weapon...comments from Police ministers "if there's a knife in your pocket, there better be a fishing rod over your shoulder".

it's all part of the plan

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: whip

In almost every school shooting, there were signs. Very loud signs that were ignored. This will get worse before it gets better. I worry every single day about my son. My parents knew I was safe at school.


What are these loud signs from a quiet kid? (This isn't a rhetorical question.) There are 1000s of quiet kids who keep to themselves. With the typical staff/kid ratio a kid who doesn't stir up trouble sure does get ignored. I'd like schools to be a bit more inspirational and attentive, but life in general can be blah for many as well, once you get out. If schools are suddenly great through some magic wand action then we'll have workplace violence when folks haven't yet come to grips with their emotions at their first jobs.

 

[Mystic]

When I went to high school we all had counselors. My counselor put some pressure on me to take harder classes (thank you counselor!). A counselor that is doing his/her job might notice that a kid is having problems, not fitting it, acting extremely strange, etc. If the other high school kids notice that there is something unusual about a kid the counselor should notice, if the counselor is any good.

Apparently there is now some evidence coming out that the kid involved in this knife attack may have been bullied somewhat. He was apparently very quiet, had few if any friends, and acted 'strange' according to some of the other students.

 

[expat]

Just posing a problem:

When I was 13-14 my mother was sick and them died of Cancer.
I won't go into details, but it was all pretty horrible.
I had a lot of emotional stuff to deal with at the time and I was Withdrawn, Angry, Volatile, You name it!

I got over it. But how might I have looked in the eyes of some counselor/social worker?

Could I have been considered a risk and Tagged?

What DO you do?

Every group has it's outsiders, Would you want YOUR kid tagged as a Risk?

As a side note:
Sorry, I'd rather take my chances against a whacko with a Knife than a Whacko with a Gun any day.
Not in the same league.

 

[Drew99GT]

Hopefully the Cutlery Institute of America will line the pockets of Congress so I can keep my steak knifes unregistered.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: whip

In almost every school shooting, there were signs. Very loud signs that were ignored. This will get worse before it gets better. I worry every single day about my son. My parents knew I was safe at school.


What are these loud signs from a quiet kid? (This isn't a rhetorical question.) There are 1000s of quiet kids who keep to themselves. With the typical staff/kid ratio a kid who doesn't stir up trouble sure does get ignored. I'd like schools to be a bit more inspirational and attentive, but life in general can be blah for many as well, once you get out. If schools are suddenly great through some magic wand action then we'll have workplace violence when folks haven't yet come to grips with their emotions at their first jobs.


In the case of the Arapahoe High School shooter, (who used a sporting 12 gauge shotgun, legal to own in all 50 states and Canada, by the way, but illegal for him to bring to school), there were clear signs that had been brought to the attention of administrators, who failed to act. I have a close personal friend (we go back to Cub Scouts) who is a teacher at that school. He gave me many, many details in confidence so I won't repeat them, but trust me, every teacher knew that kid was at risk...

 

[Mystic]

I think if they outlaw guns, knives, baseball bats, hammers, automobiles, etc., people will get fed up eventually. For sure, a lot of men and women cooks are going to have a issue with the knives being gone.

We need improved mental health in this country and a solution to bullying.

Obviously if somebody is just quiet and not friendly with anybody else that is their freedom. But if anybody makes threats or appears to represent a threat to other people that begins to restrict the freedom (and security) of other people. I don't know if this kid made any threats to anybody, but if he did then the school has the right to intervene.