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#3333224 - 04/04/14 11:53 AM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
ARCOgraphite Online   content


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10108
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
The engine in our '91 civic was garbage. As was the new ignition coil in cap defective by poor design. ( I still have that garbage cap on my owrkbench!) The wifes 85 mitsu colt 1.5 was a MUCH better engine comparing $7500 new car price point back in the day.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#4 19671mi-Castrol EDGE EP 5W30+Nissan 15208-9E01A Filter
2015 Forester 6MT 5Door, OC#6 41243mi-M1EP 0W20+Subaru Filter

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#3333372 - 04/04/14 02:54 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
propuckstopper Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 57
Loc: MB, Canada
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
_________________________
1965 Pontiac GTO Tri-Power 4-Speed Hardtop (Montero Red)
1968 Pontiac GTO Covertible 400 H.O./Auto (Solar Red)
2000 Lexus ES300
2003 Honda Element AWD

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#3333707 - 04/04/14 10:21 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: propuckstopper]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 4465
Loc: FL, USA
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L
Taffeta White - Ivory
40,xxx miles

PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

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#3333733 - 04/04/14 10:47 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
propuckstopper Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 57
Loc: MB, Canada
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.


Here is exactly how this goes. Stone cold engine gets fired up and there is no noise whatsoever. When it idles down, it begins to tick.

Once it starts ticking, it is there for good. Five minutes or five hours of driving, the ticking remains.
_________________________
1965 Pontiac GTO Tri-Power 4-Speed Hardtop (Montero Red)
1968 Pontiac GTO Covertible 400 H.O./Auto (Solar Red)
2000 Lexus ES300
2003 Honda Element AWD

Top
#3333756 - 04/04/14 11:14 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: propuckstopper]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 4465
Loc: FL, USA
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.


Here is exactly how this goes. Stone cold engine gets fired up and there is no noise whatsoever. When it idles down, it begins to tick.

Once it starts ticking, it is there for good. Five minutes or five hours of driving, the ticking remains.


Got it, so its certainly not piston slap.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L
Taffeta White - Ivory
40,xxx miles

PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

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#3333829 - 04/05/14 04:28 AM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: Miller88]
bruno Offline


Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 468
Loc: new Jersey
Ever hear of BMW M Series ?

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#3334789 - 04/06/14 08:49 AM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
ARCOgraphite Online   content


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10108
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Again, maybe the VCT is not assembled properly. Then you have wrist pin sizing and rod clearances, oil restrictor orifice not replaced after rebuild, transmission flex plate and bolts, etc,


Edited by ARCOgraphite (04/06/14 08:49 AM)
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#4 19671mi-Castrol EDGE EP 5W30+Nissan 15208-9E01A Filter
2015 Forester 6MT 5Door, OC#6 41243mi-M1EP 0W20+Subaru Filter

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#3334962 - 04/06/14 01:06 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
Highkm Offline


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I have a 2003 accord 4cyl. I notices cam lobe galling and pitting around 300K. Dealership foreman indicated the cams need replacement. I sent the oil sample to a lab that indicated nothing of concern regarding metallic composition of the oil sample. So I continued driving. Just around 590K timing chain stretched about 0.5 CM and threw an engine light. While changing the chain I inspected the cam shafts with focus on the lobes. They looked similar to when they were 300K. So no concerns. I am 606K now. The valves are due for adjustment to reduce the noise. If you experience the valve noise it does not indicate pending engine problems. It is good to hear it a bit because it means they close properly. Otherwise they will burn out. Engine consumes 1L of 0W20 every 3800 to 4200 KM combined driving. I use Amsoil 0W20 in the winter and 5W30 from April to November (South Ontario). I do a complete drain with filter replacement every 25K. The info I posted is so that you all can compare and lay your concerns to rest. Use good synthetic oil and oil filter and don't worry for 500K. If your car sits for months without running the engine periodically the cam shafts as well as other engine components become dry. If that's your case, put molyslip E oil additive. It coats the metal and stays there for at least until your next oil drain and fill. It saves the cam lobes as well as cylinder walls during dry starts. This piece of information is also confirmed by Amsoil support line. Happy driving!

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#3335002 - 04/06/14 01:53 PM Re: Honda K series cam galling issue.... [Re: gregk24]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 2307
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: gregk24
That seems like a lot of consumption, even for that mileage. How did you treat the car? And what weight of oil did you use through its life? Syn, dino?

It's not a lot. The life of valve-stem oil seals depends on their age (years) as well as mileage. For a 15-year-old car, more than a quart per one thousand miles is typical. There is a spring at the circumference of the seal to apply pressure but the synthetic rubber (Viton) in all valve-stem oil seals will harden with age and fail to seal against the valve stem, despite the spring pressure.

If cam wear is an issue, use a quality-brand oil. Thicker oil, more ZDDP, more moly, and other smart additives and smart base stocks may help a little. Going too thick may starve the hard to reach parts of oil though.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 264,000 M
Mobil 1 (M1) 0W-40 SN synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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