2 different types of FIAT filters - what to use?

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Hello
is it possible to analyze which oil filter is better by not opening it?

I have a 1996 Fiat Punto.
During all it's 17 years, I used a genuine filter number 5984044 which was made in Italy.

In the last 3 years, FIAT updated their catalog and don't make that filter anymore.
They changed the product to a different number "71753738" which is now made only in China.

The filters supposed to be the same, but by looking at them I can see differences:

The old model Italian filter has this kind of valve at the bottom:

filters001_zpse3bd5b46.jpg


and the newer chinese model has a coil spring at the bottom:

AD2CAE05-37DE-486F-BBEB-5CF8404497F5.jpg


Could you tell by not opening the filters, which type of valve looks better built?

Is it ok to use "Old Stock" filters which kept in the box for like 10 years or even more?

I might go with the old Italian one, I don't really trust those chinese filter although it's genuine.
 
Quite frankly, they are both dome end metal coil spring designs, the first one uses a semi-housing to hold the spring, the second spring is just viewable down the center tube. Country of origin aside, I don't it makes a bit of difference as long they function as designed.

The Driveworks filter sold here also made in China uses one that looks similar to the second picture, and I've seen no complaints about the bypass function or collapsed media in them posted here. And, if it's good enough for the oem and they stand behind it, I'd say you could use it with confidence.

welcome2.gif
 
I can always get some off ebay but I like to go with the genuine stuff.

I know FIAT don't make filters, I was aware of 3 different types of the older model filter:

2uysxea.jpg


The last one in the picture is the newer chinese.
All of the filters fit the same model of my car. I have no idea why there are some versions to the same filter.

some of those are probably Bosch or other big maker but I don't know how to check it.

The reason why I don't trust the Chinese filter is the oil pressure light which used to turn off faster:

Youtube

I don't know for sure if it's the valve which doesn't function correctly or the sump/oil pump which needs to be cleaned. although I change the oil and filter every 7-8K and the car has only 160,000KM
 
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Originally Posted By: idanr

In the last 3 years, FIAT updated their catalog and don't make that filter anymore.
They changed the product to a different number "71753738" which is now made only in China.


If it's still a genuine Fiat branded filter, then I would think Fiat is still making sure the filters are designed and made to their engineering specifications, regardless of what county is making the filter.

Originally Posted By: idanr

The reason why I don't trust the Chinese filter is the oil pressure light which used to turn off faster.


If you are watching the oil pressure light after an oil change and the filter was installed dry, then you can't accurately judge what you are seeing when you do a dry start after changing oil & filter.

Compare to how fast the oil pressure light goes off after the filter has been on the car and ran a few times. If it seems the oil pressure light takes longer to go off, then it's possible the ADBV is leaking.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

If you are watching the oil pressure light after an oil change and the filter was installed dry, then you can't accurately judge what you are seeing when you do a dry start after changing oil & filter.

Compare to how fast the oil pressure light goes off after the filter has been on the car and ran a few times. If it seems the oil pressure light takes longer to go off, then it's possible the ADBV is leaking.


I always fill half of the filter with oil before I put it on.
the video was taken after the car ran for few weeks with the filter at cold starts (well 15-20c outside, not so cold).
 
I have found a genuine FIAT/OEM Italian one but from old stock.
can I still use it if it's been in it's box for 10 years+-?
 
Mate i own an Alfa Romeo and i Clean IT filters, i think the website is Clean.it but just google it. They make filters for Italian Cars and they are made in italy. My filters weigh about 800grams and are made from a very thick metal. The Original Alfa ricambi filters are made in China now and they are only 300grams and feel cheap. Also you may want to try Fram europe site and look for your filter part there. FRAM europe make very high Quality filters see my thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3317907/1
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If it's still a genuine Fiat branded filter, then I would think Fiat is still making sure the filters are designed and made to their engineering specifications, regardless of what county is making the filter.
^^^ This.
 
2 filters arrived from ebay today.
1 for my 1996 punto and 1 for my 2002 16v.

Both are Italian made.

2iaanmq.jpg


ribv69.jpg


Pictures of the older design punto cars filter:

r9kcwz.jpg


24cf688.jpg


Comparing to the new Chinese filter, it doesn't look to be built better.
what do you think?

2eo8dqq.jpg


I can't seem to know who's the OEM behind this filter. filter date is 2006.

The Other filter for my 2002 16V car is still being made in Italy by Clean Filters.

2wrku1k.jpg


Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Mate i own an Alfa Romeo and i Clean IT filters, i think the website is Clean.it but just google it. They make filters for Italian Cars and they are made in italy. My filters weigh about 800grams and are made from a very thick metal. The Original Alfa ricambi filters are made in China now and they are only 300grams and feel cheap.


You were right, Clean filters is the OEM for this one:

2wobuva.jpg


This one looks so much better than the Chinese one. Also as kalloggs40 said, it feels heavier.

What do you think?

vmruhd.jpg


34qryom.jpg


2cmzw0.jpg
 
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Update:

Well the reason I opened this thread is that my oil pressure light came off 3 seconds on a cold engine along with ticking noise:

Video with the genuine chinese filter

Today I removed the sump since I thought it has something to do with the oil pump.
Oil pump was very clean, I sprayed a bit of carb spray on it and re-fitted the sump.

Changed the oil again but with the Italian old 5984044 filter
Now the oil pressure light comes off immediately without a knocking noise:

Video with the genuine italian filter

What do you think?
 
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I think you have a "one-off" situation. If you had multiple Chinese filters cause start-up noise and multiple Italian ones that did not, I'd say you were on to something.

I have also heard here that start-up noise, while annoying and seemingly harmful, isn't actually a problem and is not indicative of any reduction in engine life, so it really doesn't matter.

Having said all that, I'd use the Italian filter when possible.
 
If there's anyway to get ahold of the Italian made filters, do so.

Don't use the Chinese filters unless you run out of options.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
If there's anyway to get ahold of the Italian made filters, do so.

Don't use the Chinese filters unless you run out of options.


As RF Overlord said, it could be that one Chinese filter was bad. From the video showing the difference in the oil pressure light going out, it looks like a leaky ADBV. Only way to know for sure would be to try another new Chinese filter.

I'm assuming the two videos posted where done after the filter was ran once so all the oil was in the system, and that they both sat the some amount of time before restarting, and the oil temp was the same in each test. If you don't have all the factors constant, then it's hard to know what the real cause is and the tests are useless.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
As RF Overlord said, it could be that one Chinese filter was bad. From the video showing the difference in the oil pressure light going out, it looks like a leaky ADBV. Only way to know for sure would be to try another new Chinese filter.

I'm assuming the two videos posted where done after the filter was ran once so all the oil was in the system, and that they both sat the some amount of time before restarting, and the oil temp was the same in each test. If you don't have all the factors constant, then it's hard to know what the real cause is and the tests are useless.


I didn't even look at the videos. The OP said the filters were available as being Chinese made or Italian made. My immediate thought was to get the Italian made filter if it was available. The Chinese have no problem making a product to any spec you want, even if it kills people. They're just product contractors for American businesses - they never produce and market a product themselves.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
As RF Overlord said, it could be that one Chinese filter was bad. From the video showing the difference in the oil pressure light going out, it looks like a leaky ADBV. Only way to know for sure would be to try another new Chinese filter.

I'm assuming the two videos posted where done after the filter was ran once so all the oil was in the system, and that they both sat the some amount of time before restarting, and the oil temp was the same in each test. If you don't have all the factors constant, then it's hard to know what the real cause is and the tests are useless.


I didn't even look at the videos. The OP said the filters were available as being Chinese made or Italian made. My immediate thought was to get the Italian made filter if it was available. The Chinese have no problem making a product to any spec you want, even if it kills people.


Well, in this case it was to Fiat's spec because the Chinese filters were "Genuine Fiat" filters. I doubt Fiat is gonna let any place make their filters without verifying they actually meet Fiat's specs.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Well, in this case it was to Fiat's spec because the Chinese filters were "Genuine Fiat" filters. I doubt Fiat is gonna let any place make their filters without verifying they actually meet Fiat's specs.


Genuine Fiat filters made in China ? With the reputation the Chinese have of making counterfeit products, if I saw 'China' on the filter I wouldn't buy it.
 
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