Honda K series cam galling issue....

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I was just doing some research on this hoping to find an answer but didnt find one anywhere. Was this problem ever rectified? I know the early K24's had this problem, and even some J35's in the Pilots. Some said a thicker oil was needed, some said it was a problem from the factory. Has anybody experienced this issue? And did Honda FIX the issue or is it still going on as the miles add up.
 
The cam galling was supposed to be an issue on the K20 of the '02-'05 civic si as well. I sold mine at 232K miles and although it was consuming about a quart per 1000 miles the cams were as good as one could expect at that mileage. I suspect some were getting the cam galling due to oil starvation by letting their oil run low...only my opinion, though.
 
Originally Posted By: Brule
The cam galling was supposed to be an issue on the K20 of the '02-'05 civic si as well. I sold mine at 232K miles and although it was consuming about a quart per 1000 miles the cams were as good as one could expect at that mileage. I suspect some were getting the cam galling due to oil starvation by letting their oil run low...only my opinion, though.


That seems like a lot of consumption, even for that mileage. How did you treat the car? And what weight of oil did you use through its life? Syn, dino?
 
I'm not sure I've ever actually seen or heard of this on a K24, but with UOA's every 3K I'd think you'd catch it... Otherwise, it will certainly be visible during a valve adjustment (which you should probably have done if you haven't already).
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
I'm not sure I've ever actually seen or heard of this on a K24, but with UOA's every 3K I'd think you'd catch it... Otherwise, it will certainly be visible during a valve adjustment (which you should probably have done if you haven't already).


Well, one was performed around 100K at the dealer. So I never saw anything. Im not necessarily concerned about my vehicle, although if its something that still exists I would take precautionary measures.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24

That seems like a lot of consumption, even for that mileage. How did you treat the car? And what weight of oil did you use through its life? Syn, dino?


I drove it not exactly gently for the last 112k miles. It was consuming from the start...1.5 qt/1000mi. to 1 qt/1000 by the end. Up to around 185k miles all I ever used was M1 or O'Reilly syn 5w20. After that I experimented with TropArtic, Castrol HM, and even Amsoil with the same results. I was generally running 5w30 at the end...but even that couldn't help with the consumption.
 
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: gregk24

That seems like a lot of consumption, even for that mileage. How did you treat the car? And what weight of oil did you use through its life? Syn, dino?


I drove it not exactly gently for the last 112k miles. It was consuming from the start...1.5 qt/1000mi. to 1 qt/1000 by the end. Up to around 185k miles all I ever used was M1 or O'Reilly syn 5w20. After that I experimented with TropArtic, Castrol HM, and even Amsoil with the same results. I was generally running 5w30 at the end...but even that couldn't help with the consumption.


"It was by design per honda" I read that consistently on all rsx forums, there was maybe 1 or 2 people who reported low consumption to none, everyone else was 1 qt every 1000 miles, I read about 30 pages on about 3 different forums when I was doing research before buying a car.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I know the early K24's had this problem, and even some J35's in the Pilots.

How do you know that?

All I find in my extensive Honda documentation (which stops partway through 2010, unfortunately) is TSB 08-032. This TSB discusses a problem that affects only two dozen Canadian-built '08 Civic SI's with K20 engines. In that case, incorrect assembly led to insufficient lubrication, excessive heat buildup, and scoring of the camshaft.
 
You can find a lot of anecdotal information on the internet about this in the K24s. It seems to affect the earlier ones...meaning prior to about 2004. I don't know if Honda made a design or materials change to the camshafts or not. I don't know if it was ever a real problem or not. I do know that mine look peachy. So there's some more anecdotal evidence.
 
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Here is a link to my story. To this day, the engine still ticks like a bugger but it hasn't died. It now has around 175,000 miles on the clock.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1533554/1


So you never changed out the camshaft? What oil have you used since the issue started? And how long has it been galled? Also, I just listened to your recording of the sound, and it sounds a lot like piston slap. Does the noise go away when warm?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Why would someone design an engine to burn oil?


I think that was a probably a mischaracterization of an acceptable oil consumption specification. Most manufacturers' specification is less than 1 quart per 1,000 miles. I think someone misspoke if they claimed that Honda engines are designed to burn 1 quart per 1,000 miles.

If they are, then our two are way out of tolerance. Neither one uses a measurable amount of oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Why would someone design an engine to burn oil?


I think that was a probably a mischaracterization of an acceptable oil consumption specification. Most manufacturers' specification is less than 1 quart per 1,000 miles. I think someone misspoke if they claimed that Honda engines are designed to burn 1 quart per 1,000 miles.

If they are, then our two are way out of tolerance. Neither one uses a measurable amount of oil.


In a post a few months back, I mentioned a friend of mine that went 11000 miles on valvoline nextgen oil in a 2005 J30. He never checked it and when I checked it for him, it was still at the full line.

Honda makes good engines. That's why I got a bit confused when it was said they designed it to burn oil.
 
The engine in our '91 civic was garbage. As was the new ignition coil in cap defective by poor design. ( I still have that garbage cap on my owrkbench!) The wifes 85 mitsu colt 1.5 was a MUCH better engine comparing $7500 new car price point back in the day.
 
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
 
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.


Here is exactly how this goes. Stone cold engine gets fired up and there is no noise whatsoever. When it idles down, it begins to tick.

Once it starts ticking, it is there for good. Five minutes or five hours of driving, the ticking remains.
 
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
If you read the entire thread, you will see that I indeed changed out the camshaft and all the roller rockers. The noise continued, and still does to this day.

Here is the weirdest thing: when started ice cold, this engine is WHISPER quiet. There are no noises whatsoever. After about a minute of idling, it starts ticking. There is no way this is a case of the oil viscosity changing, as the engine has not run long enough to heat the oil significantly.

Believe me, I have had some very top-notch engine builders listen to this Element engine, and they are all equally stumped. One guy suggested that maybe the noise is in the VTEC system somewhere, although I have changed the filters in there and nothing looked abnormal.

Here is a post I did on the Honda Element forum, for those that are interested.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922



I will ask again, when your engine is at operating temp does the noise go away? Because my engine is also whisper quiet for a minute UNTIL IT IDLES DOWN then the piston slap begins. It sounds similar to your video, BUT it goes away once warmed up. And I dont mean when the coolant warms up, I mean after a good 10 minutes of driving or more.


Here is exactly how this goes. Stone cold engine gets fired up and there is no noise whatsoever. When it idles down, it begins to tick.

Once it starts ticking, it is there for good. Five minutes or five hours of driving, the ticking remains.


Got it, so its certainly not piston slap.
 
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