PP 0W-20, 7464 Mile OC, '13 Subaru Outback FB25

[BHopkins]

Well, this is my first ever UOA. From what I understand so far, I've gotta say I'm pretty happy. The Blackstone comments were pretty positive. They noted that while a few of my metals were 1 ppm higher than the Universal Averages, the Universal Averages were based upon 5500 mile oil use, while my sample was at a 7,500 mile oil change. That leads to my first question. Is it reasonable to assume that since my sample went 50% further than the average used, that my metals could have been 50% higher, and still be close to average? Or are metal wears not linear through a oil change?

Next, I was wondering about the moly. The average shown in 165, vs my 53. Does Penzoil not use much moly in PP? And, my last question is, even though the silicon almost matched the average, I was curious where the silicon comes from. What is the source in an engine?

I am pretty pumped about the super low insolubles. That really sold me on the NAPA Gold filter. This is my first experience with the NAPA Gold, and for now it will be my Go To filter.

Html:


Oil PP 0W-20

Miles on Oil 7.5k

Miles on Car 22.5k

Filter NAPA Gold FIL5057

Sample Date 3/5/14

Make Up Oil 0.3 Qt.



Aluminum 4

Chromium 1

Iron 10

Copper 5

Lead 0

Tin 0

Molybdenum 53

Nickel 0

Manganese 1

Silver 0

Titanium 0

Potassium 0

Boron 6

Silicon 30

Sodium 9

Calcium 2305

Magnesium 47

Phosphorus 670

Zinc 787

Barium 0





SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 54.0

cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.49

Flashpoint in °F 425

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0

Water % 0.0

Insolubles % TR

 

[Hollow]

Looks fine to me.

Silicone could be from a leak in the air intake or worn out air filter. At your mileage it could also be residue from assembly materials washing out of the engine.

And yes, PP is lower in moly than some other oils, but this appears to be a fine UOA.

 

[Clevy]

Moly level could mean they are using the tri nuclear type. And yes wear metals track with miles driven however they taper off as the miles rack up.
Typically wear metals spike at the front end when the oil is first changed then as miles get put on the additive package does its magic and slows the wear

 

[TTK]

Question regarding your oil filter. I was told by my NAPA dealer that the Gold 7055 was the only filter listed for the Subaru 2.5i. Yet, you used the 5057. What is the difference?

 

[Bandito440]

Iron tracks with miles, so if you're seeing increased wear over averages, it's fine. This is a generally good report. I have the same fill in the same motor that I'll also be dumping and analyzing at 22,500, so stay tuned. I'm using a Wix filter; same as NAPA.

Moly is different in every formula, so nothing to worry about. Silicone is usually dirt getting past the air filter, but could be some sealer used in assembly.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: TTK
Question regarding your oil filter. I was told by my NAPA dealer that the Gold 7055 was the only filter listed for the Subaru 2.5i. Yet, you used the 5057. What is the difference?


My bad! I did use the 7055. This is where I wish this website would not have a time limit on editing one's posts. Thanks for the good catch.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Iron tracks with miles, so if you're seeing increased wear over averages, it's fine. This is a generally good report. I have the same fill in the same motor that I'll also be dumping and analyzing at 22,500, so stay tuned. I'm using a Wix filter; same as NAPA.

Moly is different in every formula, so nothing to worry about. Silicone is usually dirt getting past the air filter, but could be some sealer used in assembly.


I was wondering if the silicon could be from sealants and such. I haven't disturbed the air cleaner yet, and would expect the factory air filter to be doing a pretty good job. But, since my silicon is close to nominal, I guess I should be happy with it.

It will be very interesting to see how your UOA compares, where you have almost the same conditions.

 

[FL_Rob]

Silicon = sand or thereabouts

Silicone = sealants "

 

[Shannow]

silicon is an element, number 14 in the periodic table.

It's presence means that silicon, number 14 in the periodic table is present in the oil.

It can get there by oxides of silicon (silica) in the air intake, silicon(e) based sealants, oil additives, casting processes, or other means.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
silicon is an element, number 14 in the periodic table.

It's presence means that silicon, number 14 in the periodic table is present in the oil.

It can get there by oxides of silicon (silica) in the air intake, silicon(e) based sealants, oil additives, casting processes, or other means.


Yes, that is my understanding also. I have read that in UOA, Silicon is quite often misunderstood. Either here on BITOG or on the Blackstone website, I read that elevated levels of silicon is not unusual in new engines. But I cannot recall how long it takes before that is not a factor in UOA.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Originally Posted By: Shannow
silicon is an element, number 14 in the periodic table.

It's presence means that silicon, number 14 in the periodic table is present in the oil.

It can get there by oxides of silicon (silica) in the air intake, silicon(e) based sealants, oil additives, casting processes, or other means.


Yes, that is my understanding also. I have read that in UOA, Silicon is quite often misunderstood. Either here on BITOG or on the Blackstone website, I read that elevated levels of silicon is not unusual in new engines. But I cannot recall how long it takes before that is not a factor in UOA.


It depends, some motors break in slower than others of course. At 22k miles I would say it wouldn't hurt to change the air filter out but some of that is from break in still for sure. All those numbers look fine.

 

[Cooper]

I am running the exact same oil and filter in my FB25. I am glad to see this at 7.5k. I was thinking about going with a 5k OCI because Subaru stepped the OCI for the 15's to 6k for the FB25. I think they did it for the consumption issues. I have not had any consumption issues with mine. Yours looks like it isn't using much oil either over 7.5k miles. Thanks for posting! It helps me to be confident with 7.5k mile OCI. Looks good!

Also, what was the weather like for this OCI?

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Well, this is my first ever UOA. From what I understand so far, I've gotta say I'm pretty happy. The Blackstone comments were pretty positive. They noted that while a few of my metals were 1 ppm higher than the Universal Averages, the Universal Averages were based upon 5500 mile oil use, while my sample was at a 7,500 mile oil change. That leads to my first question. Is it reasonable to assume that since my sample went 50% further than the average used, that my metals could have been 50% higher, and still be close to average? Or are metal wears not linear through a oil change?


The tracking is not linear, generally the longer the OCI, the lower the PPM per mile of metals. Your numbers do look good though.

Quote:
Next, I was wondering about the moly. The average shown in 165, vs my 53. Does Penzoil not use much moly in PP? And, my last question is, even though the silicon almost matched the average, I was curious where the silicon comes from. What is the source in an engine?


Don't worry about the Moly, there's more than one way to skin an anti-wear cat. I suspect the averages are skewed by Subaru's break-in oil which has 600+ ppm and the old Idemitsu 0w20 Subaru oil which also had 500+ ppm. Nothing to worry about.

As others have said, Silicon is from small particles getting through the air cleaner. 30ppm is a bit high, though not out of control if you live in a dusty area. It shouldn't be a concern as long as Aluminum wear is low, too much Silicon can accelerate wear of the Aluminum pistons. For reference, my WRX shows about 20 ppm of Si after 7,000 mi.

Quote:
I am pretty pumped about the super low insolubles. That really sold me on the NAPA Gold filter. This is my first experience with the NAPA Gold, and for now it will be my Go To filter.


The Napa Gold I believe is a WIX filter. WIX is one of the only aftermarket filter manufacturers who meet Subaru's bypass valve specs. I will caution you, however, that WIX's specs for maximum flow rate in the EJ filter are below the maximum flow rate of the Subaru oil pump. Maybe a problem, maybe not. I'm not sure about the FB oil pump, though I suspect it's similar. Subaru actually specs different filters for the EJ and FB 4-cyls. The Subaru oil filters (made by Fram) actually show very good insoluables too.

Good report. My mom's got a 2013 Legacy, and this report looks very similar aside from the slightly elevated Silicon. Also looks like PP held up very well.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
I am running the exact same oil and filter in my FB25. I am glad to see this at 7.5k. I was thinking about going with a 5k OCI because Subaru stepped the OCI for the 15's to 6k for the FB25. I think they did it for the consumption issues. I have not had any consumption issues with mine. Yours looks like it isn't using much oil either over 7.5k miles. Thanks for posting! It helps me to be confident with 7.5k mile OCI. Looks good!

Also, what was the weather like for this OCI?


Glad that the UOA helped.

The weather was Northern Utah mid fall through most of winter. The previous oil change was 10/21/13, and the sample was taken at the next oc on 3/5/14.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Well, this is my first ever UOA. From what I understand so far, I've gotta say I'm pretty happy. The Blackstone comments were pretty positive. They noted that while a few of my metals were 1 ppm higher than the Universal Averages, the Universal Averages were based upon 5500 mile oil use, while my sample was at a 7,500 mile oil change. That leads to my first question. Is it reasonable to assume that since my sample went 50% further than the average used, that my metals could have been 50% higher, and still be close to average? Or are metal wears not linear through a oil change?


The tracking is not linear, generally the longer the OCI, the lower the PPM per mile of metals. Your numbers do look good though.

Quote:
Next, I was wondering about the moly. The average shown in 165, vs my 53. Does Penzoil not use much moly in PP? And, my last question is, even though the silicon almost matched the average, I was curious where the silicon comes from. What is the source in an engine?


Don't worry about the Moly, there's more than one way to skin an anti-wear cat. I suspect the averages are skewed by Subaru's break-in oil which has 600+ ppm and the old Idemitsu 0w20 Subaru oil which also had 500+ ppm. Nothing to worry about.

As others have said, Silicon is from small particles getting through the air cleaner. 30ppm is a bit high, though not out of control if you live in a dusty area. It shouldn't be a concern as long as Aluminum wear is low, too much Silicon can accelerate wear of the Aluminum pistons. For reference, my WRX shows about 20 ppm of Si after 7,000 mi.

Quote:
I am pretty pumped about the super low insolubles. That really sold me on the NAPA Gold filter. This is my first experience with the NAPA Gold, and for now it will be my Go To filter.


The Napa Gold I believe is a WIX filter. WIX is one of the only aftermarket filter manufacturers who meet Subaru's bypass valve specs. I will caution you, however, that WIX's specs for maximum flow rate in the EJ filter are below the maximum flow rate of the Subaru oil pump. Maybe a problem, maybe not. I'm not sure about the FB oil pump, though I suspect it's similar. Subaru actually specs different filters for the EJ and FB 4-cyls. The Subaru oil filters (made by Fram) actually show very good insoluables too.

Good report. My mom's got a 2013 Legacy, and this report looks very similar aside from the slightly elevated Silicon. Also looks like PP held up very well.


Thanks for the reply. good information. I've often wondered why Subaru specs a different filter for the EJ vs the FB. It makes perfect sense that it may be related to a different flow rate. Considering how well the insolubles turned out, it seems reasonable that the Wix filter is well suited for the FB25. If the oil flow rate was too great for the filter, wouldn't excessive bypass result in high insolubles?

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Thanks for the reply. good information. I've often wondered why Subaru specs a different filter for the EJ vs the FB. It makes perfect sense that it may be related to a different flow rate. Considering how well the insolubles turned out, it seems reasonable that the Wix filter is well suited for the FB25. If the oil flow rate was too great for the filter, wouldn't excessive bypass result in high insolubles?


The crew over at NASIOC has been through the specs for both Subaru filters, as far as we can tell, they're identical except the part number. Same gasket diameter, same bypass valve specs, both are anti-drainback. We've got no idea why there are two part numbers.

A lower-flow filter wouldn't necessarily show higher insolubles. It might if there was a long bypass event just before the sample, but likely not if the sample was taken after a moderately long drive the way you're supposed to. I'm not sure it's a "real" problem. Most filters only go into bypass in extraordinary circumstances any way. It's not like you're running your outback above 5,000 RPM for long periods. I'm simply saying that UOA shows the Subaru filters work just as well as anything, and have the bonus of meeting all Subaru's specs, possibly important for those under warranty.

 

[Bandito440]

Here is my UOA for comparison.