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#332055 - 01/13/05 04:37 AM has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
asiancivicmaniac Offline


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 4030
Loc: FL
Hello, I'm new to the forum. I want to start out by saying this is a very interesting and informing forum. Now my question pertains to the issue of manufacturers denying warranty claims on their engine work because the owner used something other than an OEM filter and did their own oil changes. I don't know if this has ever happened before. But I have a 2004 Honda Civic that i want to do my own oil changes on, and I don't want to use OEM Honda oil filters since they are made by Honeywell the parent company of Fram. Even though Honda has the filters made to their specs. they still have Fram characteristics like cardboard endaps. For that reason I would like to use either Napa, Purolator, Mobil 1, or some other more reputable company instead. So has any dealer ever denied your claim because of this reason? (p.s. sorry for the long post.)

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#332056 - 01/13/05 04:41 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
pitzel Offline


Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 1353
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Google for the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act or something similar. The suggestion that using a non-OEM oil filter voiding an engine's warranty is pretty much absurd.

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#332057 - 01/13/05 04:43 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
dakotasport94 Offline


Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 22
Loc: Elkton, Maryland
what he said!!! they cannot deny coverage be cause you didnt use OEM filters....period!!!!

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#332058 - 01/13/05 04:51 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
asiancivicmaniac Offline


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 4030
Loc: FL
Then can they make it more difficult? This is my first car. I don't know anything about warrant, so that's why I'm asking this stupid question. Thank you.

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#332059 - 01/13/05 05:36 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
ZR2RANDO Offline


Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 885
Loc: North Carolina
Not a stupid question....it is good that you are thinking ahead.

No problem changing your own oil, if you care enough to be here at BITOG asking about it you will do a better job at changing your own oil than letting other places do it anyway....you'll actually use good oil and filters and pay attention to details...(and save $$$$)
(I normally keep a steno pad in my trucks and track every tank of gas and every maintenance and every repair. It helps keep me on schedule for everything...and it shows that you are changing oil/doing maintenance at recommended intervals as well)
welcome to the club!

[ January 13, 2005, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: ZR2RANDO ]

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#332060 - 01/13/05 05:44 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
427Z06 Offline


Registered: 12/06/03
Posts: 7409
Loc: Austin, TX
[Welcome!] ,asiancivicmaniac

You ask a good question for a newbie. Googling for the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act is educational too.

I'd keep good records and keep all your receipts. Suggest also doing a UOA at about 10K-15K to verify all is well. And maybe another one or two before the warranty runs out.

Keep reading, there's tons of good info here.

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#332061 - 01/13/05 07:17 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
Yeah, welcome aboard. Under the MM Wty Act, the mfr must prove that something you (or some other third party) did was the cause of the problem you're presenting to them for wty repair. Note that they have the burden of proof, not the owner. In addition, there's essentially no such thing as "voiding your warranty" a common boogeyman fear that you hear batted around, even here amongst some pretty car-savvy people. So let's say you use a Brand-X instead of a Honda, and your engine does melt down, heaven forbid. If Honda wants to avoid paying by blaming the filter, they'd have to find a qualified engineer who would examine your car and filter and agree with Honda. It's not enough just to say, "look, it has a gray filter not a blue one".

Now let's say you actually did find and use a bad filter, you had a failure, and Honda did prove that it was your (or the filter maker's) fault. Your wty is STILL GOOD! You just lost that one claim under it. If your door handle falls off, they still have to fix that because your bad filter did not damage the door handle (assuming you didn't tear it off in a blind rage after you found out about the engine. . .).

Pick the filter you want and don't worry about it. Again, [Welcome!]

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#332062 - 01/13/05 07:26 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2290
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Thanks for asking the question. Like stated above, it shows you care about your car, and you look ahead. Good for you. Take care of your Honda, and you should be asking about a ARX flush for a 2004 Civic with 300,000 miles on it.

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#332063 - 01/13/05 07:26 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
goldwing Offline


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 43
Loc: Eastern KY
quote:
Originally posted by asiancivicmaniac:
Hello, I'm new to the forum. I want to start out by saying this is a very interesting and informing forum. Now my question pertains to the issue of manufacturers denying warranty claims on their engine work because the owner used something other than an OEM filter and did their own oil changes. I don't know if this has ever happened before. But I have a 2004 Honda Civic that i want to do my own oil changes on, and I don't want to use OEM Honda oil filters since they are made by Honeywell the parent company of Fram. Even though Honda has the filters made to their specs. they still have Fram characteristics like cardboard endaps. For that reason I would like to use either Napa, Purolator, Mobil 1, or some other more reputable company instead. So has any dealer ever denied your claim because of this reason? (p.s. sorry for the long post.)

Check with your Dealer and see if the Honda-PCX-004 filter will fit your car. This is the new filter for the Honda 2000 and is a Toyo Roki made in Japan. Suppose to be one great filter. Larger filter with more capacity and great construction.

web page

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#332064 - 01/13/05 07:38 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
asiancivicmaniac Offline


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 4030
Loc: FL
if i went with a toyo roki filter, isn't the larger size going to affect oil pressure? also is there an advantage in using that over a store bought filter? also can someone make a suggestion on which brand filter i should get or stay away from?

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#332065 - 01/13/05 08:45 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
A larger filter won't effect your oil pressure. Oil is virtually incomprssible, so the filter fills up with oil and the pressure is passed right through the filter.

Despite talk about the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, be carefull about part substitutions while under warranty. If a reputable company says their part is OK for your vehicle, you're pretty safe. If you use a part that wasn't specified for your vehicle by the part manufacturer or your vehicle manufaturer, or don't follow maintenance recomendations, you are hanging out there.

None of the people that tell you you can do anything you want will be there to help you if you have a problem. Do a search for "Cathy" with the search function and read about what she went though because she didn't follow oil change recommendations.

Technically the burden of proof may be on the manufacturer, but you may go broke before you get some court to recognize that.

The $2000 filter shouldn't be problem if it fits. Get the dealer to install one at your first oil change and keep the paper work showing they installed it. After that, the dealer has blessed using that size filter so you can use an $2000 filter without reservations.

Toyo Roki are good filters, it might be a good idea to stick with them until you get a better feel for what you are doing.

It's nearly universally agreed here that Fram is the bottom of the food chain and should be avoided.

Most other filters are at least OK. You won't do much better than Toyo Roki from your dealer no matter what. OTOH, you can do quite bit worse. It's a good safe place to be while you learn more.

[ January 14, 2005, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

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#332066 - 01/13/05 08:48 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
goldwing Offline


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 43
Loc: Eastern KY
quote:
Originally posted by asiancivicmaniac:
if i went with a toyo roki filter, isn't the larger size going to affect oil pressure? also is there an advantage in using that over a store bought filter? also can someone make a suggestion on which brand filter i should get or stay away from?

I think a larger filter would provide increased partical collection efficiency and better oil cooling benefits.

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#332067 - 01/13/05 08:53 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
goldwing Offline


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 43
Loc: Eastern KY

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#332068 - 01/13/05 08:56 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
goldwing Offline


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 43
Loc: Eastern KY
quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
A larger filter won't effect your oil pressure. Oil is virtually incomprssible, so the filter fills up with oil and the pressure is passed right through the filter.

Despite talk about the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, be carefull about part substitutions while under warranty. If a reputable company says their part is OK for your vehicle, you're pretty safe. If you use a part that wasn't specified for your vehicle by the part manufacturer or your vehicle manufaturer, or don't follow maintenance recomendations, you are hanging out there.

None of the people that tell you you can do anything you want will be there to help you if you have a problem. Do a search for "Cathy" with the search function and read about what she went though because she didn't follow oil change recommendations.

Technically the burden of proof may be on the manufacturer, but you may go broke before you get some court to recognize that.

The $2000 filter shouldn't be problem if it fits. Get the dealer to install one at your first oil change and keep the paper work showing they installed it. After that, the dealer has blessed using that size filter so you can use an $2000 filter without reservations.

Toyo Roki are good filters, it might be a good idea to stick with them until you get a better feel for what you are doing.

It's nearly universally agreed here that Fram is the bottom of the food chain and should be avoided.

Most other filters are at least OK. You won't do much better than Toyo Roki from your dealer no matter what. OTOH, you can do quite bit worse. It's a good safe place to be while you learn more.

The OEM S2000 filter can be ordered at a great price from this dealer. See the link.
web page

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#332069 - 01/13/05 09:59 AM Re: has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?
Big Jim Offline


Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 1571
Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
If you take care of the car there will be little reason to question your maintenance habits. Most dealers do not ask for oil change records unless it is evident that oil changes have been missed.

That said it is best, as someone else pointed out, to keep good record. Keep receipts and keep a maintenance log. Do be careful about what parts you do use. Make sure that they are the correct part for the car. In the capacity of a service manager I have had to inform a few customers that the repairs to their car would not be covered by warranty. I have seen a few cases where the wrong oil filter was installed and was the cause of the failure. One was a Mercury Villager that had a filter that stuck down below the pan and was hit and split open where it was exposed. Service station paid for that repair. Another was a ZX2 that had an oil filter specified for the SOHC regular escort engine, not the filter ment for the DOHC Zetec. It didn't flow enough. Service station paid for that engine. Another was a Volvo that had a Fram ment for a Ford on it that was too long and got hit. Jiffy Lube paid for that engine.

You are more likely to need good records if you have an aftermarket extended warranty. They seem to be able to get away with more stringent rules. Again, you are still not likely to have a question if the car looks like it has had proper maintenance. Even so the extended warranty companies sometimes seem to be looking for an excuse not to pay. They wtill respect good records, even if it is a collection of receipts for parts and a handwritten maintenance log.

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