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#3316972 - 03/19/14 12:52 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: strat81]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: strat81
I'm not sure how much you're concerned about killing the cat.

Does anyone make such a beast (low-SAPS 40wt conventional)? Maybe a HDEO?

Answering my own questions:

VWB 10W-40 shows sulphated ash at 0.8:
https://valvoline.com/pdf/premium_conventional.pdf

While searching, I found it remarkable how many manufacturers don't list sulphated ash on their data sheets.


Last night around 10pm I emailed Valvoline, Pennzoil and WPP (Supertech) for zinc and NOACK values for their oils, as each was either deficient in the data in the PDS, or there was no PDS. Before 830 eastern time, all three had responded. Pretty impressive.

Even the 20w-50 from these vendors have low ZDDP levels, and the 20w-50 oils have noack of <6%!

Since my 318i is specified for 20w-50 as a recommended oil, I may try it to see how consumption looks... Assuming the GTX 5w-30 I have in there is consumed fast.

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#3317064 - 03/19/14 02:17 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 5793
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Finding a 20w50 with elevated ZDDP might be tough. Can you use a 15w40 instead?
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 127k Pennzoil YB SAE 30 w/MMO
Motorcraft FL-1A
KIA Sedona 49k, Chevy Lumina 177k, Chrysler Sebring 181k, Chrysler Concorde 106k

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#3317167 - 03/19/14 04:06 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
I DO NOT want elevated ZDDP, that was my reason for asking. API ratings allow for higher ZDDP in heavier grades, which I DIDNT want.

So I was glad to see these oils didnt.

Certainly high ZDDP has its place, but not for a car consuming oil.

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#3317175 - 03/19/14 04:14 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 5268
Loc: out there
Can you tell by the spark plugs if the consumption is related to one of the cylinders?
_________________________
13 elantra 37k 5w30 ultra
03 chevy avalanche64k m1 0-30
02 saturnsc1 60k 0w40 castrol
01 saturnsc1 170k nextgenhm
93 ciera 70k 5w30mc5k
gz250 hdeo15w40

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#3317184 - 03/19/14 04:23 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
strat81 Offline


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 809
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Last night around 10pm I emailed Valvoline, Pennzoil and WPP (Supertech) for zinc and NOACK values for their oils, as each was either deficient in the data in the PDS, or there was no PDS. Before 830 eastern time, all three had responded. Pretty impressive.

Even the 20w-50 from these vendors have low ZDDP levels, and the 20w-50 oils have noack of <6%!

Since my 318i is specified for 20w-50 as a recommended oil, I may try it to see how consumption looks... Assuming the GTX 5w-30 I have in there is consumed fast.


Don't be shy... share what they told you.
_________________________
Molon Labe

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#3317495 - 03/19/14 09:16 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: strat81]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Last night around 10pm I emailed Valvoline, Pennzoil and WPP (Supertech) for zinc and NOACK values for their oils, as each was either deficient in the data in the PDS, or there was no PDS. Before 830 eastern time, all three had responded. Pretty impressive.

Even the 20w-50 from these vendors have low ZDDP levels, and the 20w-50 oils have noack of <6%!

Since my 318i is specified for 20w-50 as a recommended oil, I may try it to see how consumption looks... Assuming the GTX 5w-30 I have in there is consumed fast.


Don't be shy... share what they told you.


Well valvoline was mostly useless. They post generic and vague numbers for noack, and that's all they could say.

Pennzoil confirmed that their zinc levels in their 10w-40 and 20w-50 were 800ppm.

WPP sent me full data sheets, and their zinc is 850ppm, but noack is 5.1for the 20w-50! Same zinc for the 10w-40, but noack is 13.5 for the hm and the regular. The 10w-40 hm is more viscous at 100c.

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#3319331 - 03/21/14 07:56 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
steve20 Offline


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3182
Loc: Morris County NJ
J:
I do not know which engine you have---to tell you the truth, I've never even driven a BMW, but I can tell you, there is a PCV system. It may be primitive, or it may be a fixed port type, but you do have one.If you do not think you have one, and have never serviced it, maybe that is where the problem is?
Steve
_________________________
427 Chevy Powered

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#3319463 - 03/21/14 10:42 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: steve20]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: steve20
I do not know which engine you have---to tell you the truth, I've never even driven a BMW, but I can tell you, there is a PCV system. It may be primitive, or it may be a fixed port type, but you do have one.If you do not think you have one, and have never serviced it, maybe that is where the problem is?

Steve is right on this. The 318i (E30 series vehicle) was made from 1988-1992. All vehicles in that period had a PCV valve and oil vapor collection system. If the PCV valve becomes clogged, it can result in positive crankcase pressure, which can cause oil to leak around gaskets, like the valve cover gasket, or pass through shaft seals.

If you can locate the PCV valve, remove it and test it by shaking. If it rattles, it's okay. Otherwise, replace. For whatever reasons, it's not considered good style to clean a PCV valve.

In an earlier message, I suggested you concentrate on locating the cause of oil usage - leaking gaskets, bad shaft seals, bad valve stem seals, leaking past the rings, a bad head gasket. But, try to determine the cause first - then worry about fixes. There are fairly simple tests for each of these maladies. But some cures (e.g. a solvent added to the oil) may aggravate other problems (e.g. oil leaking past a gasket or past the rings). A shotgun approach will probably be counterproductive.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3319589 - 03/22/14 08:19 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
It does NOT have PCV with a valve. There are a set of breather hoses which are all clear and in fine shape. There are no external oil leaks, and the plugs stay good looking. I did have soom seepage from a spark plug hole seal but fixed that long ago with no change.

While newer iterations of the M42 used a disc shaped PCV valve, this one has just an open breather and no EGR either.

The lifter tick seems to have been due to some dirt that didn't come clean by other solvents and oils. It is gone. I was ok with replacement, but it was impossible to identify which one specifically was the ticker. Remember that once warmed up, it was silent. So my cost would have been $16x16, not a ton of money but I'm glad if it's gone.

As far as consumption, I'm not counting on any of this to fix it. Chasing it down may or may not occur. Given that my OM specs 20w-50, I may try that. Most of my driving is high speed interstate with rpms at 3500 or more. Every decent OM out there indicates that high speed driving can cause consumption and that a heavier oil may be needed. Easy test, especially since 20w-50 oils have NOACK of 5 vs 10-15 even for 40wt oils. Easy experiment. I can assure everyone that the breather system is clear and open. Considering that we will be buying a minivan before too long, the car runs beautifully, good MPGs, and there are no obvious leaks (park on white concrete without any issues or spots) the extent that I spend time on this versus our 16 month old is dubious.

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#3319615 - 03/22/14 09:28 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
One quick thought: there are more than a few forums devoted to BMW automobiles. On such a forum, you might determine what is normal oil usage for your vehicle. Some vehicles simply use more oil than others. Your usage might be 'normal'.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3319732 - 03/22/14 11:43 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
It does NOT have PCV with a valve. <snip> While newer iterations of the M42 used a disc shaped PCV valve, this one has just an open breather and no EGR either.

The breather hoses probably go to the valve cover, right?

Are you sure someone hasn't removed the PCV valve? It's been years since I've been under the hood of this vehicle, but it should be located next to the outlet elbow and look vaguely like this (well, not totally trashed ;-):

_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3320645 - 03/23/14 08:42 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
Bummer those pictures don't load. Nope, no valve, wasn't put in until one of the later years of the m42/44 in the e36.

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#3320673 - 03/23/14 09:15 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3258
Loc: Ohio
J:

Lets see what the outside of the car looks like. Since we don't get to see these everyday and the guys like pictures.

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#3320978 - 03/23/14 03:02 PM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: satinsilver]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
J:

Lets see what the outside of the car looks like. Since we don't get to see these everyday and the guys like pictures.


When it's cleaned up and not salty.




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#3321696 - 03/24/14 07:54 AM Re: B-12 Chemtool and Restore CSL [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 36221
Loc: New Jersey
A little over 300 miles in, but zero, absolutely no consumption... And this is on very old GTX 5W30... It had been consuming Supertech in the same grade very readily at the same rate as was historically seen...

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