Recent Topics
Baldwin B2-HPG Filter
by 340_Magnum
Today at 12:54 AM
Decent battery charger?
by BTLew81
Today at 12:20 AM
$9.99 oil change special +mod+plan
by Pokermatters
Yesterday at 11:26 PM
Royal Purple Duralec
by Rendezvous
Yesterday at 11:26 PM
Have CQ50-110US restore discs laying around?
by daves66nova
Yesterday at 10:49 PM
$20k dollar crew cab 4X4
by donnyj08
Yesterday at 10:47 PM
If all oil is too thick when cold...
by SnowDrifter
Yesterday at 10:46 PM
The Greatness of Simplicity
by Lolvoguy
Yesterday at 10:43 PM
How deep of a puncture can a tire take?
by sxg6
Yesterday at 10:22 PM
excessive yawning while reading book out loud..
by daves66nova
Yesterday at 10:21 PM
Neverwet Paint Rust-OleumŽ NeverWet Liquid Repelli
by handyman
Yesterday at 10:13 PM
Recommend a good 3.5 to 2.5 inch HDD bay adapter
by ClutchDisc
Yesterday at 10:03 PM
Newest Members
Dumy, SethTanner, mrfitz, 69P, newbull87
51678 Registered Users
Who's Online
25 registered (01_celica_gt, 901Memphis, 3800Series, Clevy, chrisri, 2 invisible), 555 Guests and 220 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51678 Members
64 Forums
221133 Topics
3495897 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#3320598 - 03/23/14 07:53 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 7055]
Pop_Rivit Offline


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 3592
Loc: Midwest
Buy that which you can afford to pay cash for, either new or used. Financing (or worse yet, leasing) is for those who live outside their means and don't have the self discipline to live without perpetual monthly payments.

And that "zero percent financing"? It's used to bring buyers into dealerships, and they often buy more vehicle than they originally planned, or the price isn't as low with zero percent financing. The reality is that there's no such thing as "free" financing; you'll pay for it in different ways, but make no mistake-you will pay for it.

To top it off, if you can't afford a vehicle without making payments on it, ask yourself if you really want to be a slave to years of payments just to have that new shiny bauble.

Top
#3320599 - 03/23/14 07:54 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: johnachak]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9409
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Wait until November-December of 2014 and purchase a leftover 2014 when the 2015's are out.
Use used book for a 2014 as your pricing target.
Get a new year old car with no miles and full warranty for the same price (or less) than a year old used one.
Best of both worlds.


+1, sounds like a good idea.


Tdbo and I both did this in November 2012 and we both ended up with screaming deals on new '12 Accords.
Honda even offered .9% financing, which was just too good to pass up. Why should I give up cash when I can finance for almost nothing?
That the '12 was the last year of that generation Accord certainly helped.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 64K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 149K Defy 10W-40

Top
#3320600 - 03/23/14 07:56 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 7055]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8514
Loc: Upstate NY
It depends on what you do with it, and your financial situation. We bought ours both new since they got better MPG than anything else in their classes at the time, used cars were astronomically priced in our area, we got great financing terms, and we could afford the monthly cashflow. Now we're planning on keeping them for 10+ years, maybe longer.
_________________________
2009 Honda Fit Sport
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

Top
#3320687 - 03/23/14 09:35 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: Pop_Rivit]
99Saturn Offline


Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1015
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Financing (or worse yet, leasing) is for those who live outside their means and don't have the self discipline to live without perpetual monthly payments.

crackmeup

Top
#3320702 - 03/23/14 10:02 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 7055]
SevenBizzos Offline


Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 446
Loc: The IL
"Economical"? It's pretty rare that any type of vehicle purchase could be considered "economical".

That being said, I seem to do just fine on finding ~ 2 year old cars with < 20k on them at $10k - $12 off original pricing. I will never reach a point where I even put half that into additional maintenance on the cars.

My last used car loan was 2.74%, so it was only a few hundred dollars of interest.

But again, it's a bad financial decision almost every time.

Top
#3320725 - 03/23/14 10:25 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 99Saturn]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3469
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Financing (or worse yet, leasing) is for those who live outside their means and don't have the self discipline to live without perpetual monthly payments.

crackmeup


+2 crackmeup
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer...

Top
#3320765 - 03/23/14 11:02 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: Pop_Rivit]
Tdbo Offline


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1723
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Buy that which you can afford to pay cash for, either new or used. Financing (or worse yet, leasing) is for those who live outside their means and don't have the self discipline to live without perpetual monthly payments.

And that "zero percent financing"? It's used to bring buyers into dealerships, and they often buy more vehicle than they originally planned, or the price isn't as low with zero percent financing. The reality is that there's no such thing as "free" financing; you'll pay for it in different ways, but make no mistake-you will pay for it.

To top it off, if you can't afford a vehicle without making payments on it, ask yourself if you really want to be a slave to years of payments just to have that new shiny bauble.


Have we had our anti-pompous pills today or not? I'm guessing not.
You say "buy what you can afford," I'll agree with that.
However, you can buy a car that you can afford, and not pay cash. As FDCG outlined in the response after your diatribe both he and myself both bought new 2012 Honda Accord LX-P's within in a month of each other. I know what he paid because I got a quote from the same Cincinnati dealership where he bought his. My price is posted on these very forums. I bought mine from a Honda dealership in Northeastern Ohio and I got the color that I wanted, and a Spoiler, Mudflaps, and side moldings for $150. more because the dealer had them already on the car. Both were stellar deals, FDCG's deal was minimum profit, on mine the dealership took a loss because of the add ons on the car.
There was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that either of us were going to walk away with a better deal on our respective vehicles (I crunched numbers on both deals.)

Honda, as a factory to dealer incentive offered $1750. on any leftover '12 Accord. WE BOTH GOT ALL THAT $$ TO GET THE CAR FOR PRICES THAT WE PAID. To sweeten the deal, Honda offered .9 financing on any new '12 Accord. There was NO MORE MONEY thrown on the hood of these cars had we declined the incentive. Therefore, IMO that is basically free money. FDCG can explain his rationale for financing if he wants to; however, I will explain mine. I keep six months income liquid, and have the rest invested. To avoid depleting my contingency fund and to save capital (that made 16.8% in the past year), I put enough downstroke on the car that I could very comfortably cash flow the purchase out of salary. The cost for four years for borrowing this money is $275.00. For that sum, I have saved 13.4K in investment capital that is yielding 15.9% (16.8%-.9%= 15.9%)

I'll toss you a bone however. Leasing CAN be a bad deal if used improperly. It is a tool that can be useful in certain circumstances (business, etc.) However it can be a poor deal if utilized as a means to purchase a car that one cannot afford otherwise.

Financially irresponsible people make poor decisions and amass debt that is beyond their means. Using credit in a responsible manner to achieve solid financial objectives is prudent. Go gnaw on that for awhile.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord LX-P 56K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 12K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 70K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 82K

Top
#3320805 - 03/23/14 11:51 AM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 7055]
Mykl Offline


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1312
Loc: Texas
I generally agree with the sentiment that if you can not afford to pay cash for a car you simply can't afford it. This doesn't mean that it isn't smart to finance anyway, assuming you can get fair terms. But if you save such a small amount of your paycheck that you couldn't cover the purchase of a vehicle if financing was not an option, maybe you shouldn't be purchasing that new vehicle.
_________________________
'10 Volkswagen GTI
'07 Toyota Camry XLE V-6

Top
#3320874 - 03/23/14 01:31 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: SevenBizzos]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3469
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos
"Economical"? It's pretty rare that any type of vehicle purchase could be considered "economical".

That being said, I seem to do just fine on finding ~ 2 year old cars with < 20k on them at $10k - $12 off original pricing. I will never reach a point where I even put half that into additional maintenance on the cars.

My last used car loan was 2.74%, so it was only a few hundred dollars of interest.

But again, it's a bad financial decision almost every time.


+1 But understand that most of the people who think that any vehicle is an "investment" do not understand the difference between depreciating assets and real property. Lots of people on here have not had that level of education or life experience to understand the difference. They also don't understand that financing is a tool and not just a burden or any indication of how much someone can "afford".


Edited by Doog (03/23/14 01:33 PM)
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer...

Top
#3320875 - 03/23/14 01:34 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: Mykl]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3469
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I generally agree with the sentiment that if you can not afford to pay cash for a car you simply can't afford it.


You really need to change your thinking.
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer...

Top
#3320883 - 03/23/14 01:41 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: Doog]
Mykl Offline


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1312
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I generally agree with the sentiment that if you can not afford to pay cash for a car you simply can't afford it.


You really need to change your thinking.


If you're going to quote me, use the entire post. Giving others the impression that my argument ends exactly there is unfair.

My "thinking" has me in line to retire at 45 years old. I'm not interested in changing it unless you can show me how doing so will allow me to retire at 40 years old instead.
_________________________
'10 Volkswagen GTI
'07 Toyota Camry XLE V-6

Top
#3320934 - 03/23/14 02:22 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: 7055]
wallyuwl Offline


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 1467
Loc: Lexington, KY
What is being lost in this discussion is income. If you don't have a high enough income to save up enough money quickly to pay cash, but have enough to afford monthly payments (especially at low or 0% interest), then you have to finance. If you can afford the car on a monthly basis, you can afford it.

I laugh when I hear people whose family income is $100k or more talk down about those that can't pay cash for their assets. I'd like to know how many of these people paid cash for their house. If they didn't, they are hypocrites. If they rent yet talk badly of people that choose to lease, they are also hypocrites because it is the exact same thing. BTW: my family income is over $100k.

And another thing being lost is inflation and just price increases. We bought our 2010 Equinox for $23,500 (sticker $26,000). That was without incentives, it was just the price. Today that same vehicle (just 2014 model) is about $5000 more. If we would have saved for five years to pay cash we'd be out $5000 plus not had a vehicle that had the utility of the Equinox which was necessary. Plus a dollar today is wroth more (i.e.: more buying power) than it will be 5 years from now. If you can finance at 0%, it is a tool to use to beat inflation.

Top
#3320943 - 03/23/14 02:27 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: wallyuwl]
Mykl Offline


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1312
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
What is being lost in this discussion is income. If you don't have a high enough income to save up enough money quickly to pay cash, but have enough to afford monthly payments (especially at low or 0% interest), then you have to finance. If you can afford the car on a monthly basis, you can afford it.

I laugh when I hear people whose family income is $100k or more talk down about those that can't pay cash for their assets. I'd like to know how many of these people paid cash for their house. If they didn't, they are hypocrites. If they rent yet talk badly of people that choose to lease, they are also hypocrites because it is the exact same thing. BTW: my family income is over $100k.

And another thing being lost is inflation and just price increases. We bought our 2010 Equinox for $23,500 (sticker $26,000). That was without incentives, it was just the price. Today that same vehicle (just 2014 model) is about $5000 more. If we would have saved for five years to pay cash we'd be out $5000 plus not had a vehicle that had the utility of the Equinox which was necessary. Plus a dollar today is wroth more (i.e.: more buying power) than it will be 5 years from now. If you can finance at 0%, it is a tool to use to beat inflation.


So you're a hypocrite if you think it's a bad idea to buy a depreciating asset that you can't pay cash for, but feel that it's a good idea to buy a historically appreciating asset that you can't afford to pay cash for?

If taking out a loan to buy a $5000 vehicle to get yourself to work so you can continue to put food on the table is what you have to do, then it's what you have to do. But saying you can afford a $50k truck or BMW just because you can cover the payments is financially insane.
_________________________
'10 Volkswagen GTI
'07 Toyota Camry XLE V-6

Top
#3320954 - 03/23/14 02:36 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: Mykl]
wallyuwl Offline


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 1467
Loc: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted By: Mykl
So you're a hypocrite if you think it's a bad idea to buy a depreciating asset that you can't pay cash for, but feel that it's a good idea to buy a historically appreciating asset that you can't afford to pay cash for?



So you took out a loan for your house are likely going to pay tens of thousands of dollars in interest, but talk down to those that do the same thing, only with a car and a few thousand interest (or even NO interest). But you are trying to make yourself feel better about your hypocritical decision. Got it. I especially liked the term "historically appreciating." Cute. Of course don't include inflation in that. Also see: Bubble, Housing, 2008.

Bottom line: everyone has their own decisions to make. Everyone can also have their own opinion. But get off your high horse and stop acting like your perspective is the "correct" one and everyone else who doesn't: 1) agree with that, or 2) can't do what you do/did, or 3) chooses to not do what you do/did, is an idiot.

Top
#3321048 - 03/23/14 04:16 PM Re: Is it economical to buy new? [Re: wallyuwl]
Mykl Offline


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1312
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
So you took out a loan for your house are likely going to pay tens of thousands of dollars in interest, but talk down to those that do the same thing, only with a car and a few thousand interest (or even NO interest). But you are trying to make yourself feel better about your hypocritical decision. Got it. I especially liked the term "historically appreciating." Cute. Of course don't include inflation in that. Also see: Bubble, Housing, 2008.

Bottom line: everyone has their own decisions to make. Everyone can also have their own opinion. But get off your high horse and stop acting like your perspective is the "correct" one and everyone else who doesn't: 1) agree with that, or 2) can't do what you do/did, or 3) chooses to not do what you do/did, is an idiot.


I'm not talking down to anybody. You seem awfully sensitive here. Is it because you're not making the best financial decisions in your life and you don't like being made to feel like it?

Believing that financing a historically appreciating asset that provides utility (somewhere to live) and/or that could provide profit (through renting) is in no way the same as financing a depreciating asset.

If you choose to not recognize this distinction and continue to consider those who can recognize it as hypocrites, then you're an idiot.

What you do with your money is your business. But I will not be insulted when giving what is generally considered to be solid financial advice. I'll be happy to hit the reset button on our dialogue and move forward, but if you want to continue calling me names I'll be happy to continue throwing them back.
_________________________
'10 Volkswagen GTI
'07 Toyota Camry XLE V-6

Top
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >