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#3324453 - 03/26/14 04:36 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4458
Loc: Mahzurrah!
I am still intrigued, found an interesting thread from '09 on straight weights.

SAE 30 BITOG thread
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3324543 - 03/26/14 06:08 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: KCJeep]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 475
Loc: Alabama, United States
I figure part of being a part of this forum is a willing to experiment. smile

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#3324764 - 03/26/14 09:08 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Zaedock]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Since my car sits idle for long periods, that'd be a reason to use it.


Not really. I doubt you run an air cooled, opposed, dry sump engine that burns leaded av gas.



True, though I'm not sure how those factors affect the analogy, if at all.

The difference in the oils is perhaps more relevant.

As I understand it (I havn't researched this and could easily be wrong) straight aviation lubricants for piston engines are typically of higher viscosity (eg Aeroshell range goes from 65 to 120) and non-(metallic)-detergent. These properties might reduce drain-down and increase corrosion protection relative to the automotive equivalents.


Edited by Ducked (03/26/14 09:11 PM)

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#3324822 - 03/26/14 09:57 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Red91]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4458
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Red91
I figure part of being a part of this forum is a willing to experiment. smile


This place is terrible for that I can't get in all the fiddling I want to do, it's the BITOG curse. Leaning hard towards a run of PYB HD30 for curiosity's sake though.
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3324829 - 03/26/14 10:03 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3756
Loc: Massachusetts
Fiddling is cool. Having done the SAE30 thing, I'll be fartn' around with 5W20 in my Jeep 2.5L powered buggy this summer. I may do a build thread if there is interest.
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#3324835 - 03/26/14 10:15 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Ducked]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3756
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Since my car sits idle for long periods, that'd be a reason to use it.


Not really. I doubt you run an air cooled, opposed, dry sump engine that burns leaded av gas.



True, though I'm not sure how those factors affect the analogy, if at all.

The difference in the oils is perhaps more relevant.

As I understand it (I havn't researched this and could easily be wrong) straight aviation lubricants for piston engines are typically of higher viscosity (eg Aeroshell range goes from 65 to 120) and non-(metallic)-detergent. These properties might reduce drain-down and increase corrosion protection relative to the automotive equivalents.


*sigh* - the analogy is that your application is completely different and not comparable to your vehicle use or the type of fuel it burns (oil is contaminated by combustion byproducts).

I have been working on engines for over 20 years. I have completed engine replacement with both rebuilt and used units. In the extreme cases, I have pulled apart engines that sat on a shelf for a decade and the inside was coated with oil. You are looking for a "protection" that is not needed. Run the recommended viscosity and enjoy your vehicle.
_________________________
2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1992 YJ "The Heep"/1994 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.1/auto
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

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#3324850 - 03/26/14 10:29 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Zaedock]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 475
Loc: Alabama, United States
That will be a nice read. Always exciting to see what we come up with through experimentation.

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#3324856 - 03/26/14 10:33 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Ducked]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1503
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Ducked
hed this and could easily be wrong) straight aviation lubricants for piston engines are typically of higher viscosity (eg Aeroshell range goes from 65 to 120) and non-(metallic)-detergent. These properties might reduce drain-down and increase corrosion protection relative to the automotive equivalents.


Aviation single grade oil viscosity is on a different scale than SAE automotive oils. Divide by 2 to get the equivalent SAE viscosity. 100 = SAE 50. The multi-grades are on the SAE scale.

Ed
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#3324933 - 03/27/14 01:06 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 8906
Loc: Clovis, CA
Straight grade oil is the real deal. Heavy duty stuff. No artificial thickeners added.

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#3325189 - 03/27/14 10:15 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Red91]
il_signore97 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 505
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Red91
Would anyone here actually try a fill of monograde in an application where it's tolerated? Just for kicks.


I've tried SAE30 in several vehicles just for kicks. Mind you, I should qualify that. I used Amsoil's fully synthetic ACD SAE30, which by nature of it's synthetic base stocks, can qualify for 10W30's cold temp pumpability. So essentially, it can be considered a VII-free, synthetic 10W30 oil that is properly categorized as an SAE30.

My impressions vs. the typical syn 0W30 or syn 5W30 that I've normally used prior to that in the particular vehicles in question... I noticed no difference whatsoever in driveability. Summer cold starts were identical as expected, and winter cold starts had a very very slightly slower cranking speed compared to the usual 0W30 (again, to be expected). No funny noises. Quiet and smooth engine running. Was looking to identify any wear metal changes in UOA, but I don't think it made any difference in that regard.

So in short, after many runs in different vehicles, I haven't felt the need to run it again. I'm not sure if there would have been long term benefits or detriments of using it. Even in my lawn and garden equipment I usually use 5W30 syn and call it a day (especially for the genset and snow blower that will be started in very cold weather - I'm not concerned about the lawnmower so much).
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#3325287 - 03/27/14 11:44 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Zaedock]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4458
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Fiddling is cool. Having done the SAE30 thing, I'll be fartn' around with 5W20 in my Jeep 2.5L powered buggy this summer. I may do a build thread if there is interest.


Of course there is interest!

My guess would be your iron will be relatively normal and your aluminum will skyrocket if you run a 5w20. The two Jeep UOA's with a 20 grade that I've seen exhibited that trend.
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3329920 - 04/01/14 05:34 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: edhackett]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: Ducked
hed this and could easily be wrong) straight aviation lubricants for piston engines are typically of higher viscosity (eg Aeroshell range goes from 65 to 120) and non-(metallic)-detergent. These properties might reduce drain-down and increase corrosion protection relative to the automotive equivalents.


Aviation single grade oil viscosity is on a different scale than SAE automotive oils. Divide by 2 to get the equivalent SAE viscosity. 100 = SAE 50. The multi-grades are on the SAE scale.

Ed


Like gear oil viscosities aren't comparable with engine oil? (Never understood why they do that, but I suppose there's no one to stop them.)

Thanks. That means the analogy is closer than I thought.

(But of course not the same, because its an analogy.)

(Sigh)

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#3329924 - 04/01/14 05:41 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26108
Loc: a prison island
The aeros are started, and then usually run for a while, not a 2 minute jaunt down to the street.

The "advantages" of high VI don't play out in that sort of application...

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#3335609 - 04/07/14 08:44 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Shannow]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The aeros are started, and then usually run for a while, not a 2 minute jaunt down to the street.

The "advantages" of high VI don't play out in that sort of application...


I don't do 2 minute jaunts down the street. I have a bicycle.

(It takes straight weight oil too.)

But sure, in general, aero engines have a much less demanding role than car engines, but my original point was the alleged enhanced corrosion resistance of higher viscosity straight weight oils for (aero} engines that sit idle for long periods.

Whatever the design and operational differences, I'd have thought that sitting idle is going to be rather similar in a car and an aircraft engine.

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#3335617 - 04/07/14 08:53 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Ducked]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Taiwan
Wandering around B+Q a while ago and noticed the following:-

OE/HDO-30 Lubricating oil, Internal Combustion Engine. Combat/Tactical Service MIL-PRF-2104E

Presumably thats a straight 30 weight oil. This was in the section that displays welding sundries and such, and I'd guess generators might spec a straight 30 oil.

I quite favor straight oils here, especially in a motorcycle, but have only used 40W (which might be rather high) because thats all I've found readily available. It wasn't expensive at 400NT a gallon, though it was only a little toy American gallon, so not as cheap as I at first thought.

Its not unusual in the UK for an oil to give its milspec on the label, but thats ALL this stuff had. Otherwise plain white plastic jerrycan, no brands/logos/pretty colours. Not B+Q's normal style at all.

Apparently made (or at least sold/packaged) by Chemical Specialist and Developments, Inc, Conroe TX 77305. I wondered if it might be fake, though you'd think B+Q would buy in enough bulk that they'd check supplier bonafides. There were a few typos on the label, but not beyond the usual run of industrial illiteracy. Health and safety stuff was a bit over the top, but that's not implausible for a US company.

Company website says they are mostly a defence contractor, (which fits) and not much else apart from "mission statements" and similar [censored].

Having checked it out a bit I went back a week or so later to get some for the "not summer", but it'd gone, and (of course) no one knew what I was talking about.

On the same shelf there were tins of Nyco Grease GN10. Looked it up. Its a general purpose AVIATION grease, made by a French company, and specified for extreme low temperature use (presumably at altitude).

I have no clue as to what it was doing on the shelf in B+Q in Taiwan.

Not important, but these little mysteries intrigue me. Stuff like this is why women find me such a fascinating conversationalist.


Edited by Ducked (04/07/14 08:57 AM)

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