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#3319543 - 03/22/14 06:42 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Paul3637]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Taiwan
Still quite popular in Taiwan, though now a bit harder to find on supermarket shelves. My 2nd hand Ford 2L DOHC Sierra came with 5 litres of Delvac straight 40, courtesy of the previous (Taiwanese) owner. Hydraulic tappets [US: "lifters" I think] too.

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#3319666 - 03/22/14 10:39 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4456
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Interesting thread. The UOA link posted was interesting as well. Kind of makes you wonder about all the "flow at start up" and "wear at start up" theories doesn't it?

I'll have to pay more attention but I "think" some HD30's tend to be non detergent whereas most SAE30's mirror there multi-weight counterparts in add pack but are straight weights. Not sure on that I'll have to look harder next time I am in the oil aisle.

I do know I ran SAE30 without issue in our 87 Chevy years ago without apparent issue. I didn't know a thing about oil then but it had consumption with 5w30/10w30's. I tried the straight 30 in it and zero consumption. I didn't know anything about oil back then but now you've got me wondering what a summer run of straight 30 would look like UOA wise in my Jeep! Blasted BITOG anyway ha ha.
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3319690 - 03/22/14 10:58 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: KCJeep]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1716
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Interesting thread. The UOA link posted was interesting as well. Kind of makes you wonder about all the "flow at start up" and "wear at start up" theories doesn't it?


This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth nothing more.
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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all" J. M. Keynes

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#3319742 - 03/22/14 11:57 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: turtlevette]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3756
Loc: Massachusetts

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Interesting thread. The UOA link posted was interesting as well. Kind of makes you wonder about all the "flow at start up" and "wear at start up" theories doesn't it?

I'll have to pay more attention but I "think" some HD30's tend to be non detergent whereas most SAE30's mirror there multi-weight counterparts in add pack but are straight weights. Not sure on that I'll have to look harder next time I am in the oil aisle.

I do know I ran SAE30 without issue in our 87 Chevy years ago without apparent issue. I didn't know a thing about oil then but it had consumption with 5w30/10w30's. I tried the straight 30 in it and zero consumption. I didn't know anything about oil back then but now you've got me wondering what a summer run of straight 30 would look like UOA wise in my Jeep! Blasted BITOG anyway ha ha.



I have a 5 or 6 year old UOA from my trail Jeep that was very good running the Delo SAE30. If memory serves, I ran about 1500 street miles (back when it was still street legal) and many gallons of fuel burned off road. My Fe number was 9 PPM. Actually, I believe sodium was elevated in that UOA as well, but potassium was 0 and we determined it was the salt treated dirt roads we were using. The 2nd and 3rd UOA's confirmed.

There are many factors that contribute to start up wear. Acid build up, condensation, cold internal components, etc. If the oil is pump-able, then typically adequate lubrication is provided. Obviously this is only to a point if it's flippn' cold out.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Unless the oil is in its viscosity sweet spot its in its "plastic" state and does not lubricate as well.

Also, do you think oil in a syrup like state is going to sling properly to lubricate the piston and rings?

Hello?


Turtlevette's concerns do have validity. I have seen an old white paper where they tested multi-weights against straight cold start wear(5&10W30 vs SAE30) and the straight weight actually showed slightly less wear, but I can't remember the temperature of the test. I'm sure a modern test of a 5W30 vs a SAE30 consistently tested below freezing would show less wear with the multigrade. Whether or not the wear accounts to a decrease in the useful life of the engine is another matter.

In my personal use, I have used SAE30 below freezing and watched instant flow from the rockers (BuickGN did a similar "test" watching his Grand National with 20W50). I don't remember any weird noises and the UOA looked good (not that UOA's are a wear indicator, but we still use them as such). The issue I have noticed is the parasitic loss of having to pump SAE30 or even 10W40 vs the Grp III 5W30 oil I have settled on using in this vehicle. My last UOA was very good Fe wise, so why would I not take advantage of the better flow characteristics?
_________________________
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1992 YJ "The Heep"/1994 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.1/auto
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

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#3319770 - 03/22/14 12:39 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Shannow]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4456
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Out of interest, an SAE30 "newtonian" oil of around 10-11cst, KV100 typically will be around the 3.5-4cst at 150C...


Did I understand that right? Are you saying for example PYB SAE30 with a kv100 of 10.5 (like it's 5w/10w30 grade siblings) actually has an HTHS of about 3.5 instead of 3.0 or 3.1 for the others? That is very interesting information I had no idea.
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3319800 - 03/22/14 01:32 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: KCJeep]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 474
Loc: Alabama, United States
Since you can still find SAE30, I don't see any reason not to use it if your application tolerates it. It's always nice to have alternatives.

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#3319824 - 03/22/14 02:02 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Zaedock]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1716
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
This is a cool video. I made a similar pump to transfer used motor oil. It can fill a 55 gal drum in a couple of minutes.

Keep in mind WVO is quite viscous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o52BYTEau4


That is a awesome video, those gear style pumps are no joke thumbsup
_________________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all" J. M. Keynes

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#3320069 - 03/22/14 06:20 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: KCJeep]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26066
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Did I understand that right? Are you saying for example PYB SAE30 with a kv100 of 10.5 (like it's 5w/10w30 grade siblings) actually has an HTHS of about 3.5 instead of 3.0 or 3.1 for the others? That is very interesting information I had no idea.


Yep, got only a couple minutes at the moment, but if you read the paper in the technical section on cylinder wall hydrocarbon emissions, there's a bit in the middle on temporary shear.

http://www.savantlab.com/images/TBS_Paper_-_SAE_2008-01-1621_The_Expanding_Dimensions....pdf

is a good read.

But in short, look up PDS' for straight weights, even lowly mineral oils like

http://products.lelubricants.com/Asset/8420-8450.pdf

And you can see that all this bunk about "20s that are really 30s", and "30s that are really 40s" is just waffle.

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#3320255 - 03/22/14 09:03 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1961
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
I got in on the Delo buy at AZ too. I'm down to my last 5 gallons. I've run it in a 95 Chevy half ton 350, a 99 F250 5.4 Triton, a 2k Focus, my 03 6.0 Powerstroke, and Honda powered pressure washer, Briggs powered push mower, and my Kohler powered L&G tractor. There is a member here that has run a blend of 30 and 40 weight straight weight in his motorcycle with very good UOA results. There is nothing wrong with straight weights until the weather turns bitter cold. Multigrades are better then.
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#3320265 - 03/22/14 09:11 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: beanoil]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 474
Loc: Alabama, United States
So the straight 30 did alright in your 5.4?

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#3320284 - 03/22/14 09:22 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Shannow]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1716
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I gotta set some time aside, just sit down and open up that technical paper forum. So much to go over in that forum, thanks to yourself and the other upstanding members.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Did I understand that right? Are you saying for example PYB SAE30 with a kv100 of 10.5 (like it's 5w/10w30 grade siblings) actually has an HTHS of about 3.5 instead of 3.0 or 3.1 for the others? That is very interesting information I had no idea.


Yep, got only a couple minutes at the moment, but if you read the paper in the technical section on cylinder wall hydrocarbon emissions, there's a bit in the middle on temporary shear.

http://www.savantlab.com/images/TBS_Paper_-_SAE_2008-01-1621_The_Expanding_Dimensions....pdf

is a good read.

But in short, look up PDS' for straight weights, even lowly mineral oils like

http://products.lelubricants.com/Asset/8420-8450.pdf

And you can see that all this bunk about "20s that are really 30s", and "30s that are really 40s" is just waffle.
_________________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all" J. M. Keynes

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#3320296 - 03/22/14 09:31 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4456
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Thanks Shannow!
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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#3320498 - 03/23/14 03:18 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26066
Loc: a prison island
I'm learning heaps being around here, and loving it.

My formal teaching was back in the late '80s, from some really clued up guys, one memorable bloke in IC engines pointed out that engines really needed three oils, one for bearings, one for pistons, and one for cams...unfortunately such an idea would never wash.

It's all about compromise in design and intent, and the more you can find out, the better decision you can make (however, a follow the manual is pretty close to the mark)

With the 'net available, there's no reason not to learn something new every day...I lay in the bath yesterday (hope it's not TMI) with a cup of coffee, and read that 2008-01-1621 paper over and over...saved it a week to get the time to absorb it (and the mineral bath salts). Those docs can give you a good bite sized understanding of another nuance in the game.

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#3320505 - 03/23/14 03:57 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: CourierDriver]
Merkava_4 Online   content


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 8867
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I may try the straight 30 wgt this summer on my 3800. Have not run straight oil since the late 60s.


In my Buick owners manual, it says 30 weight is OK if 10W-30 is not available, but to switch back to 10W-30 as soon as possible. I'm thinking it would only be critical in cold weather below 40* F.

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#3320980 - 03/23/14 03:04 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4456
Loc: Mahzurrah!
I am visualizing July weather and straight 30 PYB in my sump. Hmmm.....
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 37k, Chevy Lumina 169k, Chrysler Sebring 170k, Ford Ranger 174k!

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