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#3318838 - 03/21/14 09:23 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3866
Loc: Massachusetts
This is a cool video. I made a similar pump to transfer used motor oil. It can fill a 55 gal drum in a couple of minutes.

Keep in mind WVO is quite viscous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o52BYTEau4
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#3318845 - 03/21/14 09:28 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Paul3637 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 42
Loc: FL 2010 KS before that
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


Edited by Paul3637 (03/21/14 09:30 AM)

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#3318850 - 03/21/14 09:31 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3866
Loc: Massachusetts
It's a discussion forum.

Why waste space with useless posts?
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#3318913 - 03/21/14 11:04 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Shannow]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 2035
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Even the straight grades aren't really straight.
The basestock will have its own VI, so even a straight grade will be thinner at cold start than it's SAE viscosity grade might lead you to think.
In your climate, you could probably run a 20W-20 winters and a 30 in summers with no ill effects in most engines.


To be a "straight" weight, the lubricant has to be "Newtonian", and typically/always devoid of polymeric thickeners.

So, regardless of VI, a "straight" weight will have an identical viscosity regardless of shear rate for a given temperature...if your crankshaft is spinning 1,000 RPM, 3,000 RPM, or 20,000 RPM, at 100C, your 11cst 30 will be 11cst at every rpm increment.

Until multigrades were developed, the concept of "HTHS" was irrelevant (more so "not yet needed"), the normal viscosity classifications applied, and worked everywhere.

Multigrades with polymeric VII are non newtonian, and have different viscosities at the same temperature depending on the shear rate of the oil...the viscosity in your bearing at 1,000, 3,000, or 20,000 will be different.

That's why they introduced the HTHS concept, and requirement into J300...in the words of SAE
Quote:
To insure that polymer-containing oils do not create a situation in which the viscosity of the oil decreases to less than a specified limit, minimum values of HTHS viscosity are assigned to each of the non-W viscosity grades in Table 1. A
special situation exists regarding the SAE 40 grade. Historically, SAE 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 oils have been used
primarily in light-duty engines. These multigrade SAE 40 oils must meet a minimum HTHS viscosity limit of 3.5 mPa·s.
In contrast, SAE 15W-40, 20W-40, 25W-40, and 40 oils have typically been used in heavy-duty engines. The manufacturers of such engines have required HTHS viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service applications. Thus, SAE 15W-40, 20W-40, 25W-40, and single-grade 40 oils must meet a minimum HTHS viscosity limit of 3.7 mPa·s.


http://paservice.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/J300_201304.pdf

Out of interest, an SAE30 "newtonian" oil of around 10-11cst, KV100 typically will be around the 3.5-4cst at 150C...the original 2.9 for the 0, 5, and 10W-40s show how badly VII wasn't so good when developed...the current requirement for 3.5 for those same grades shows just how much modern VII have improved in recent years, in being able to meet those specs in (allegedly) every oil that you see holding the SAE ratings.

A High VI "straight weight", like Amsoil 30 can claim 10W, as it's cold temperature performance can meet those requirements...but it's still newtonian and can claim "straight"


Very well stated. Thank you thumbsup
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#3318969 - 03/21/14 11:53 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Merkava_4]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 6035
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I gotta question for you guys: Why is SAE30 often labelled HD30 ?



HD30: High Detergency SAE 30 weight
In contrast with ND30, which is non-detergent.
There used to be a debate 40-50 years ago about detergent versus non-detergent oils. Some would say high detergent oils would not provide good wear protection, so ran non-detergent oils in their engines, and changed oil on short intervals to keep them from sludging.
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#3318984 - 03/21/14 12:06 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Paul3637]
AP9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 256
Loc: Chicago suburbs
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


I understand your point, but just because not many people use straight weight in motor vehicles anymore doesn't mean it's a useless discussion, not by any means. Some of us are here to learn, not just to accept things for what they are, and that's the spirit of this forum. For example, Shannow has provided some excellent information on this thread, specifically regarding the use of VIIs and viscosities changing under different shear on the oil.

Just my 2 cents.
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#3318993 - 03/21/14 12:15 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Paul3637]
edhackett Offline


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1772
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


You obviously haven't read a Subaru owner's manual up until the introduction of the FB engine a couple of years ago. My 2008 specifically allows SAE 30 and SAE 40 for desert areas or heavy duty use.

Ed
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#3319158 - 03/21/14 03:41 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 4027
Loc: Tn.
I may try the straight 30 wgt this summer on my 3800. Have not run straight oil since the late 60s.
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#3319203 - 03/21/14 04:46 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9782
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.
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#3319208 - 03/21/14 04:54 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: A_Harman]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 14636
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
HD30: High Detergency SAE 30 weight
In contrast with ND30, which is non-detergent.
There used to be a debate 40-50 years ago about detergent versus non-detergent oils. Some would say high detergent oils would not provide good wear protection, so ran non-detergent oils in their engines, and changed oil on short intervals to keep them from sludging.


Thanks for answering my question. I thought HD meant Heavy Duty.

Does the HD30 have more detergents than 10W-30 ?

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#3319275 - 03/21/14 07:03 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 1071
Loc: Alabama, United States
This is actually a very interesting topic. My local Napa carries Delo SAE30 in quart bottles.....might try some in the GMC next oil change.
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#3319406 - 03/21/14 09:38 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Clevy]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 33504
Loc: Oz
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.


Subject for another thread, but I don't think it's actually a straight weight.

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#3319443 - 03/21/14 10:25 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Merkava_4]
chainblu Offline


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 463
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

I thought HD meant Heavy Duty.

I do too. I'm actually looking at a bottle of ST HD-30 that I bought yesterday for my lawn mower. It says "Heavy Duty" at the top of the label and then "Heavy Duty Formulation" lower down. Nowhere on the bottle does it say "High Detergent", but I'm sure compared to a ND-30, it IS a high detergent oil.

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#3319489 - 03/21/14 11:46 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: A_Harman]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5090
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
A_Harman - It is my understanding that HD means Heavy Duty. This was most certainly the case in Europe and Oceania in the 1950s-1960 and under the nomenclature used then by the API

There were variations of this Under the Mil and CAT requirements of the time. In those years Mobil, Castrol, Shell and Caltex-Chevron made lubricants for petrol engines that had similar "detergency" levels to some Heavy Duty lubricants

That said, I used Heavy Duty lubricants in many petrol engines (both mono and multigrade) and in fact Heavy Duty lubricants were specified by VW, Porsche and Mercedes Benz in that era. And I can confirm that many of their Engineers of the era also understood that HD meant Heavy Duty

I still use HDEOs in some petrol engines too
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#3319521 - 03/22/14 03:48 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Clevy]
Now Offline


Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.


I bought about 8 quarts of SAE60 back in 1981. Bought a used 1976 FLH 1200 with 2800 miles and sold it 6 months later. Bike was not dependable to say it nicely.

I use full synthetic in all of my gas burners. I try to go way past the recommended factory interval. I've got 3 diesels that get delo 15w40. Somewhere years ago I read that straight weight oil is less likely to shear under adverse conditions. My Hondas (yes I like Hondas) are always driven between 10 and 30 miles due to our rural location.

Lots of good answers here. I know a lot about engines and oil, but for now I'm going to play dumb. I've got to allow my urine to build up for a week. I can't compete with some of these members. In case you didn't notice, there's a contest going on in this forum. LOL grin
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