Recent Topics
Samsung 840 Pro SSD in...
by 97tbird
45 minutes 12 seconds ago
2014 Ford Falcon revealed
by 19jacobob93
Today at 06:58 PM
MAG 1 4T
by Wordfreak
Today at 06:35 PM
This Will Make For An Interesting Gun Rights Case
by ryansride2017
Today at 05:56 PM
I need some info Penzoil 25w-50 racing
by Ducman
Today at 05:52 PM
Texas Heat
by GumbyJarvis
Today at 05:50 PM
Mechanic Crushed To Death By Car
by Nickdfresh
Today at 05:04 PM
2009 Nissan Rogue Pennzoil Platinum w/ PP 5w-30
by DarylZero
Today at 04:45 PM
Dumbest oil change.
by Darwin1138
Today at 04:37 PM
Anyone using a network extender?
by JTK
Today at 03:51 PM
Engine oil for my 08 legacy GT Limited
by Jonlee89
Today at 03:02 PM
Changed oil in splash lubricated B&S at 25 hours
by knerml
Today at 02:51 PM
Newest Members
ka6uup, jmrico, drdburch, shadizzle2, dckotwicki
50763 Registered Users
Who's Online
116 registered (1SSW, 01rangerxl, 901Memphis, 05LGTLtd, 97tbird, 12 invisible), 1838 Guests and 246 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
50763 Members
64 Forums
216788 Topics
3412449 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#3318838 - 03/21/14 09:23 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3756
Loc: Massachusetts
This is a cool video. I made a similar pump to transfer used motor oil. It can fill a 55 gal drum in a couple of minutes.

Keep in mind WVO is quite viscous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o52BYTEau4
_________________________
2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1992 YJ "The Heep"/1994 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.1/auto
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

Top
#3318845 - 03/21/14 09:28 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Paul3637 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 40
Loc: FL 2010 KS before that
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


Edited by Paul3637 (03/21/14 09:30 AM)

Top
#3318850 - 03/21/14 09:31 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3756
Loc: Massachusetts
It's a discussion forum.

Why waste space with useless posts?
_________________________
2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1992 YJ "The Heep"/1994 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.1/auto
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

Top
#3318913 - 03/21/14 11:04 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Shannow]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1714
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Even the straight grades aren't really straight.
The basestock will have its own VI, so even a straight grade will be thinner at cold start than it's SAE viscosity grade might lead you to think.
In your climate, you could probably run a 20W-20 winters and a 30 in summers with no ill effects in most engines.


To be a "straight" weight, the lubricant has to be "Newtonian", and typically/always devoid of polymeric thickeners.

So, regardless of VI, a "straight" weight will have an identical viscosity regardless of shear rate for a given temperature...if your crankshaft is spinning 1,000 RPM, 3,000 RPM, or 20,000 RPM, at 100C, your 11cst 30 will be 11cst at every rpm increment.

Until multigrades were developed, the concept of "HTHS" was irrelevant (more so "not yet needed"), the normal viscosity classifications applied, and worked everywhere.

Multigrades with polymeric VII are non newtonian, and have different viscosities at the same temperature depending on the shear rate of the oil...the viscosity in your bearing at 1,000, 3,000, or 20,000 will be different.

That's why they introduced the HTHS concept, and requirement into J300...in the words of SAE
Quote:
To insure that polymer-containing oils do not create a situation in which the viscosity of the oil decreases to less than a specified limit, minimum values of HTHS viscosity are assigned to each of the non-W viscosity grades in Table 1. A
special situation exists regarding the SAE 40 grade. Historically, SAE 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 oils have been used
primarily in light-duty engines. These multigrade SAE 40 oils must meet a minimum HTHS viscosity limit of 3.5 mPa·s.
In contrast, SAE 15W-40, 20W-40, 25W-40, and 40 oils have typically been used in heavy-duty engines. The manufacturers of such engines have required HTHS viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service applications. Thus, SAE 15W-40, 20W-40, 25W-40, and single-grade 40 oils must meet a minimum HTHS viscosity limit of 3.7 mPa·s.


http://paservice.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/J300_201304.pdf

Out of interest, an SAE30 "newtonian" oil of around 10-11cst, KV100 typically will be around the 3.5-4cst at 150C...the original 2.9 for the 0, 5, and 10W-40s show how badly VII wasn't so good when developed...the current requirement for 3.5 for those same grades shows just how much modern VII have improved in recent years, in being able to meet those specs in (allegedly) every oil that you see holding the SAE ratings.

A High VI "straight weight", like Amsoil 30 can claim 10W, as it's cold temperature performance can meet those requirements...but it's still newtonian and can claim "straight"


Very well stated. Thank you thumbsup
_________________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all" J. M. Keynes

Top
#3318969 - 03/21/14 11:53 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Merkava_4]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 3979
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I gotta question for you guys: Why is SAE30 often labelled HD30 ?



HD30: High Detergency SAE 30 weight
In contrast with ND30, which is non-detergent.
There used to be a debate 40-50 years ago about detergent versus non-detergent oils. Some would say high detergent oils would not provide good wear protection, so ran non-detergent oils in their engines, and changed oil on short intervals to keep them from sludging.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

Top
#3318984 - 03/21/14 12:06 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Paul3637]
AP9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 210
Loc: Chicago suburbs
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


I understand your point, but just because not many people use straight weight in motor vehicles anymore doesn't mean it's a useless discussion, not by any means. Some of us are here to learn, not just to accept things for what they are, and that's the spirit of this forum. For example, Shannow has provided some excellent information on this thread, specifically regarding the use of VIIs and viscosities changing under different shear on the oil.

Just my 2 cents.

Top
#3318993 - 03/21/14 12:15 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Paul3637]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1496
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
Why waste this space.

The owners manual to my el cheapo YardMarchine non-self propelled mower says to use 5W30 synthetic for all temperature ranges. Why would anyone in this century bring up single weight oil. It is not for use in any passenger car made in the last 30 years.


You obviously haven't read a Subaru owner's manual up until the introduction of the FB engine a couple of years ago. My 2008 specifically allows SAE 30 and SAE 40 for desert areas or heavy duty use.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

Top
#3319158 - 03/21/14 03:41 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 2960
Loc: Tennessee
I may try the straight 30 wgt this summer on my 3800. Have not run straight oil since the late 60s.
_________________________


A stampede is an act of mass impulse among herd animals or a crowd of people in which the herd collectively begins running with no clear direction

Top
#3319203 - 03/21/14 04:46 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3319208 - 03/21/14 04:54 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: A_Harman]
Merkava_4 Online   content


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 8851
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
HD30: High Detergency SAE 30 weight
In contrast with ND30, which is non-detergent.
There used to be a debate 40-50 years ago about detergent versus non-detergent oils. Some would say high detergent oils would not provide good wear protection, so ran non-detergent oils in their engines, and changed oil on short intervals to keep them from sludging.


Thanks for answering my question. I thought HD meant Heavy Duty.

Does the HD30 have more detergents than 10W-30 ?

Top
#3319275 - 03/21/14 07:03 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Now]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 473
Loc: Alabama, United States
This is actually a very interesting topic. My local Napa carries Delo SAE30 in quart bottles.....might try some in the GMC next oil change.

Top
#3319406 - 03/21/14 09:38 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Clevy]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26047
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.


Subject for another thread, but I don't think it's actually a straight weight.

Top
#3319443 - 03/21/14 10:25 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Merkava_4]
chainblu Offline


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 278
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

I thought HD meant Heavy Duty.

I do too. I'm actually looking at a bottle of ST HD-30 that I bought yesterday for my lawn mower. It says "Heavy Duty" at the top of the label and then "Heavy Duty Formulation" lower down. Nowhere on the bottle does it say "High Detergent", but I'm sure compared to a ND-30, it IS a high detergent oil.

Top
#3319489 - 03/21/14 11:46 PM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: A_Harman]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4816
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
A_Harman - It is my understanding that HD means Heavy Duty. This was most certainly the case in Europe and Oceania in the 1950s-1960 and under the nomenclature used then by the API

There were variations of this Under the Mil and CAT requirements of the time. In those years Mobil, Castrol, Shell and Caltex-Chevron made lubricants for petrol engines that had similar "detergency" levels to some Heavy Duty lubricants

That said, I used Heavy Duty lubricants in many petrol engines (both mono and multigrade) and in fact Heavy Duty lubricants were specified by VW, Porsche and Mercedes Benz in that era. And I can confirm that many of their Engineers of the era also understood that HD meant Heavy Duty

I still use HDEOs in some petrol engines too
_________________________
Regards
Doug

Top
#3319521 - 03/22/14 03:48 AM Re: Advantages of straight weight oil [Re: Clevy]
Now Offline


Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've used amsoils straight 60 v-twin oil in my Harley and I liked it,other than cost. I'm going to use up what I've got left once summer hits.


I bought about 8 quarts of SAE60 back in 1981. Bought a used 1976 FLH 1200 with 2800 miles and sold it 6 months later. Bike was not dependable to say it nicely.

I use full synthetic in all of my gas burners. I try to go way past the recommended factory interval. I've got 3 diesels that get delo 15w40. Somewhere years ago I read that straight weight oil is less likely to shear under adverse conditions. My Hondas (yes I like Hondas) are always driven between 10 and 30 miles due to our rural location.

Lots of good answers here. I know a lot about engines and oil, but for now I'm going to play dumb. I've got to allow my urine to build up for a week. I can't compete with some of these members. In case you didn't notice, there's a contest going on in this forum. LOL grin
_________________________
Two ears, one mouth. Jack of all trades. Trust me.

Top
Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >