I'm interested badtic. Can you point me to the SkyActiv UOAs that have fuel dilution issues that cause high wear.
2014 Mazda 6 - 0W-20 with Fuel Dilution
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Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I'm interested badtic. Can you point me to the SkyActiv UOAs that have fuel dilution issues that cause high wear.
Who said it causes high wear?
Exactly.
Despite all the hoo hah around here about fuel dilution there is little to show that many engines are damaged by it.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I'm interested badtic. Can you point me to the SkyActiv UOAs that have fuel dilution issues that cause high wear.
Who said it causes high wear?
Exactly.
Despite all the hoo hah around here about fuel dilution there is little to show that many engines are damaged by it.
It may not have been 1qt over full, I know if I get even a 1/2 qt to much in my Scion (4.5qt capacity), it sends it way up past the full mark on my dipstick. I would run it a couple oci's yet, give it a chance to break in and then maybe do another uoa and see how everything looks. Wear looks pretty good on it so far though.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Shouldn't the Mazda 0w20 have a lot more Moly in it than this? I thought this oil should have like 600-800ppm Moly.
We have seen voa that have shown moly levels that high before. Simply put this could be lab error or batch to batch variation.
Shouldn't the Mazda 0w20 have a lot more Moly in it than this? I thought this oil should have like 600-800ppm Moly.
We have seen voa that have shown moly levels that high before. Simply put this could be lab error or batch to batch variation.
OP dumped the factory fill at 1,500 miles. He didn't specify whether the dealer used Mazda GF-5 w/Moly or their bulk oil. The report mentions "Mazda 0W-20", but the calcium in this UOA is too low for it to be genuine Idemitsu blended Mazda oil, so I'm guessing this is bulk.
Mazda High Moly VOA:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=359124&postcount=26
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2781625/Virgin_Mazda_0w-20_w/moly_Idem
Mazda High Moly VOA:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=359124&postcount=26
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2781625/Virgin_Mazda_0w-20_w/moly_Idem
UOA'd oil was from dealer oil change at about 1500 miles. No clue what they used, but would guess bulk.
The quarts I bought at the parts counter to replace that oil were Peak 0W-20.
Talked to Mazda and there's not much they can do, and I don't want them taking my engine apart at this point anyway. The service writer spent some time looking for service bulletins and came up blank. The dealer offered to call the tech line next time the car is in for service.
The quarts I bought at the parts counter to replace that oil were Peak 0W-20.
Talked to Mazda and there's not much they can do, and I don't want them taking my engine apart at this point anyway. The service writer spent some time looking for service bulletins and came up blank. The dealer offered to call the tech line next time the car is in for service.
I will post my UOA in a few months when I change it out at 5000 miles. I did my first oil change on my new 6 at 1800 miles. Maybe I will find something different with mine. Hopefully you notice better results in the summer.
As for the UOA it looks like Mobil 1 by the amount of moly. I suggest purchasing the filter and oil and do it yourself to be sure.
As for the UOA it looks like Mobil 1 by the amount of moly. I suggest purchasing the filter and oil and do it yourself to be sure.
Originally Posted By: jwagner
UOA'd oil was from dealer oil change at about 1500 miles. No clue what they used, but would guess bulk.
The quarts I bought at the parts counter to replace that oil were Peak 0W-20.
Talked to Mazda and there's not much they can do, and I don't want them taking my engine apart at this point anyway. The service writer spent some time looking for service bulletins and came up blank. The dealer offered to call the tech line next time the car is in for service.
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
UOA'd oil was from dealer oil change at about 1500 miles. No clue what they used, but would guess bulk.
The quarts I bought at the parts counter to replace that oil were Peak 0W-20.
Talked to Mazda and there's not much they can do, and I don't want them taking my engine apart at this point anyway. The service writer spent some time looking for service bulletins and came up blank. The dealer offered to call the tech line next time the car is in for service.
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
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Originally Posted By: jwagner
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
Is there increased wear as a result of the fuel dilution? I don't think you can truly conclude that despite the fuel dilution, the condition of the oil is leading to increased wear rates since you ran this oil on such a short interval.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
Is there increased wear as a result of the fuel dilution? I don't think you can truly conclude that despite the fuel dilution, the condition of the oil is leading to increased wear rates since you ran this oil on such a short interval.
Originally Posted By: jwagner
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
I went through a winter full of below zero starts and short trips. No fuel dilution issues with my skyactiv 2.0.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is nothing wrong but if you really want to address/reduce the fuel dilution, I suggest running premium unleaded. It works for me and I do mostly city driving.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "nothing wrong". Everything I have read says that 5% fuel dilution is too high and will result in reduced lubrication and increased engine wear. I suspect there's nothing malfunctioning in the engine and agree with you if that's what you mean, and that the dilution problems are a result of cold operating conditions and a driving mix that includes a higher than normal proportion of short trips. If that's the case, I think it is a design flaw that will show up over time in the longevity of the Skyactiv motors, especially in cold climates.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
I went through a winter full of below zero starts and short trips. No fuel dilution issues with my skyactiv 2.0.
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Originally Posted By: jwagner
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
How long did it take you to get to 800 miles? The reason high fuel dilution is considered bad is because of its negative affect on the oil's viscosity. While your engine certainly will not grenade due to the oil being slightly thinner than the specified grade, it's probably a good idea to change it when it no longer meets the manufacture's recommendations.
Since you are driving so little and having issues with fuel contamination, it may be better to stick to a time based oil change interval, rather than mileage. The severe service schedule recommends an oil change every four months for short trip driving. Also, try to avoid excessive idling immediately after a cold start-up.
I do think that 4.8% oil dilution in 800 mile old oil constitutes "something wrong".
How long did it take you to get to 800 miles? The reason high fuel dilution is considered bad is because of its negative affect on the oil's viscosity. While your engine certainly will not grenade due to the oil being slightly thinner than the specified grade, it's probably a good idea to change it when it no longer meets the manufacture's recommendations.
Since you are driving so little and having issues with fuel contamination, it may be better to stick to a time based oil change interval, rather than mileage. The severe service schedule recommends an oil change every four months for short trip driving. Also, try to avoid excessive idling immediately after a cold start-up.
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Updating my old thread with new results. The temps were much warmer, there were far fewer short trips, and several long trips. We did a six hour round trip - three hours each way over the labor day weekend. Oil dilution still seems a little high at 1.3%. I think it's just the direct injection. On the positive side, we got about 39 mpg on the labor day tip which is pretty good for a full size car with three people and a full trunk.
Hope this is readable - the preview crunches everything together even though I have it spaced into columns using the space bar. Edit - it's not very readable and I can't figure out how to format on this forum. The first number is the current result at 7200 miles, the second number is the 2500 mile test, and the third number is the universal average.
MI/HR on Oil 4400 828
MI/HR on Unit 7200 2517
Sample Date 09/12/14 03/10/14
Make Up Oil Ad0 qts 0 qts
Universal Avg
ALUMINUM 5 5 4
CHROMIUM 0 0 0
IRON 10 8 11
COPPER 11 10 7
LEAD 0 0 0
TIN 1 1 1
MOLYBDENUM 89 164 223
NICKEL 0 0 0
MANGANESE 0 1 0
SILVER 0 1 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 1 1 3
BORON 124 89 77
SILICON 13 16 16
SODIUM 3 2 3
CALCIUM 1776 896 1512
MAGNESIUM 208 1175 431
PHOSPHORUS 682 696 635
ZINC 785 812 729
BARIUM 1 3 1
SUS Viscosity 47.4 45.6
cSt Viscosity 6.47 5.92
Flashpoint in 340 290
Fuel % 1.3 4.8
Antifreeze % 0 0
Water % 0 0
Insolubles % 0.3 0.1
Hope this is readable - the preview crunches everything together even though I have it spaced into columns using the space bar. Edit - it's not very readable and I can't figure out how to format on this forum. The first number is the current result at 7200 miles, the second number is the 2500 mile test, and the third number is the universal average.
MI/HR on Oil 4400 828
MI/HR on Unit 7200 2517
Sample Date 09/12/14 03/10/14
Make Up Oil Ad0 qts 0 qts
Universal Avg
ALUMINUM 5 5 4
CHROMIUM 0 0 0
IRON 10 8 11
COPPER 11 10 7
LEAD 0 0 0
TIN 1 1 1
MOLYBDENUM 89 164 223
NICKEL 0 0 0
MANGANESE 0 1 0
SILVER 0 1 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 1 1 3
BORON 124 89 77
SILICON 13 16 16
SODIUM 3 2 3
CALCIUM 1776 896 1512
MAGNESIUM 208 1175 431
PHOSPHORUS 682 696 635
ZINC 785 812 729
BARIUM 1 3 1
SUS Viscosity 47.4 45.6
cSt Viscosity 6.47 5.92
Flashpoint in 340 290
Fuel % 1.3 4.8
Antifreeze % 0 0
Water % 0 0
Insolubles % 0.3 0.1
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Originally Posted By: jwagner
Hope this is readable - the preview crunches everything together even though I have it spaced into columns using the space bar.
Choose a courier font and it will be readable. Thanks for trying to make it work.
Hope this is readable - the preview crunches everything together even though I have it spaced into columns using the space bar.
Choose a courier font and it will be readable. Thanks for trying to make it work.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Choose a courier font and it will be readable. Thanks for trying to make it work.
Tried the courier font on my new thread - same problem. Spaces are ignored. Edit - never mind, figured out how to do a code block. thanks.
Choose a courier font and it will be readable. Thanks for trying to make it work.
Tried the courier font on my new thread - same problem. Spaces are ignored. Edit - never mind, figured out how to do a code block. thanks.
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