Are Stihl's M-TRONIC electric ECU chainsaws good?

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I am in the market for a big stihl saw in the 440 to 660 range ($$$) that will handle a 30"+ bar with ease.

In my research I have discovered stihl is offering an optional engine management system that automatically adjust AF ratio for all conditions, temperatures and fuel quality. from stihls site:

"The STIHL M-Tronic™ engine management system electronically controls the ignition timing and fuel metering in any operating condition, factoring in altitude and fuel quality. This system provides professionals with optimum performance, whether you are just starting to work or resuming after a break.

Just Pull and Start
Thanks to the simplified warm start procedure, there is only one starting position on the combination lever.

No Manual Carburetor Settings
The STIHL M-Tronic system electronically adjusts the fuel/air mixture in the carburetor for all operating conditions: start, idle, partial and full load. With the STIHL M-Tronic system always taking external conditions into account, you save time and money.

Continuous Engine Performance
The STIHL M-Tronic continuously monitors the operating conditions of your chain saw or brushcutter, calculating engine speed to continuously meter fuel. You save on fuel costs while experiencing optimum engine performance.

Excellent Acceleration
Thanks to the electronic ignition timing and fuel metering, you can quickly accelerate – even after a cold start.

Memory Function
From the second you start it, the built-in intelligence of the STIHL M-Tronic engine management system begins saving you time – and money! STIHL M-Tronic remembers your last setting under the same external conditions and resets to it every time once the engine reaches full power. "

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/technology/stihl-m-tronic/

THis sounds incredibly high tech, but the simplest in me wouldn't mind just a regular carb, however, this sounds like the bees knees for efficiency and longevity if the system is bullet proof and wont require a $200 ECU replacement a few years down the road.

Thoughts?
 
I guess no one knows how reliable the system is yet, and EFI isn't new tech, the only issue could be if they made compromises to make the system light enough for a saw.
If you are a pro user and EFI will help you make money, and the saw will be junked in less than 10 years, why not go for it.
If this is going to be the last big saw you ever buy, and used for a few dozen hours a year, probably the carb'd one will still be going for decades.
I used a 40+ year old stihl at my buddies cottage last year and it was still pretty strong, not quite as fast or light as my 372, but the saw was still far better than a new $200-300 plastic saw. No chain brake though!
 
I think that any Stihl you buy will last you forever, but the most important aspect is the fuel itself. I make a special trip to the Marina to get ethanol free fuel for my saw's and other small I.C.E.'s.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I guess no one knows how reliable the system is yet, and EFI isn't new tech, the only issue could be if they made compromises to make the system light enough for a saw.
If you are a pro user and EFI will help you make money, and the saw will be junked in less than 10 years, why not go for it.
If this is going to be the last big saw you ever buy, and used for a few dozen hours a year, probably the carb'd one will still be going for decades.
I used a 40+ year old stihl at my buddies cottage last year and it was still pretty strong, not quite as fast or light as my 372, but the saw was still far better than a new $200-300 plastic saw. No chain brake though!


Thats what I was thinking, EFI has been in cars since what, circa 1990? this probably isnt exactly the same, for example, do you think it actually has a tiny O2 sensor?

I would want to keep this saw around forever to heat my home, and be powerful enough for big oaks that will eventually need taken down. Not sure if the 440/441 would leave me wanting compared to the 660, but at this price point, its only a 200-250 dollar difference.

with the M-Tronic, it sounds like the saw runs odd and hunts a bit until the ECU "learns" the running conditions much like a car when you reset the ecu.
 
Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
I think that any Stihl you buy will last you forever, but the most important aspect is the fuel itself. I make a special trip to the Marina to get ethanol free fuel for my saw's and other small I.C.E.'s.


Yes, I plan on either using marina 93 octane and Stihl ultra oil, or even their moto mix I already have for use in my stihl trimmer. NO ethanol if I have anything to say about it.
 
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
I would want to keep this saw around forever to heat my home, and be powerful enough for big oaks that will eventually need taken down.


You live in Indiana, and are supplying home heating -- be realistic about what you really need.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
I would want to keep this saw around forever to heat my home, and be powerful enough for big oaks that will eventually need taken down.


You live in Indiana, and are supplying home heating -- be realistic about what you really need.





I would love to just get a farm boss and be done with it, good cutting light saws, but it can NOT handle a chain/bar big enough for old growth hard wood. Yes, you technically can cut in from both sides as a work around, but I'm not sure I want to mess with that when the oak has the potential to hit my home.

Its true a smaller saw would foot the bill for several cords a year or whatever, but thats not the only requirement.
 
A 362 with a full skip chain would run a 30-32" bar for the odd tree quite well I'd think. I ended up with a 36" bar(thought I was going to buy a 3120 for milling at one point), but with full skip it cuts OK on the 372. I blocked up 4 cords of ~44" Ash with it. In terms of blocked lbs/hour, its probably a bit faster than doing a 20" tree and far faster than blocking smaller trees.
If you've got a 260 size saw already you might as well go big to a 660. I use the 372 most of the time, but for limbing and brushing it gets heavy, so I have a cheap plastic saw for that stuff and for cleaning up the trails after a storm, even for cutting cedar posts the plastic saw is faster.
 
I was just handling a 362 with a 20'' bar. (441s-660s have to be ordered at my local shop) Nice feeling saw, not very heavy and its the biggest saw before you get to the magnum 441+.

If I could get away with this saw for my purposes, it would be a full $450~ less than a 660 and $300~ less than a 441. I think $715 was the price on the sticker.
Now, I would hate to not spend the extra 300 and regret it or even the 450 for that matter, I plan on keeping and using whatever I get for the rest of my life if possible.

There also might be very real fuel savings over the life of owning the 362, and just getting a large bar for the big ones.

choices choices...
 
A 362 is a good stand alone saw, not too heavy for the little stuff, but will still cut 20" hardwood all day, just a bit slower than the 70+cc saws.
If I bought again I'd probably get one of those instead of the 70cc saw. With a spare 28-30" bar there is only one tree in my woods that I couldn't fall, and I don't ever plan to anyways.
Also you have to remember that the big saws powerhead weights, don't include gas and oil(bigger tanks), and of course the longer bar. So they are not just 3-4 pounds heavier in actual use. I should weigh my 372 with full tanks and the 20" bar, it must be 8-10lbs more than my cheapo plastic saw, even though the plastic saw power head is 10lbs and the 372 14.5lbs.

If you are cutting 24"+ white oak most the time, a 441 or bigger will make you smile though, just not until you finish limbing.
 
One concern I have with the 362 is Stihl only recommends a 25'' max chain. And beyond that, even with the oiler adjusted to max you would likely be under-oiling unless you used an auxiliary oiler. the 441 specs up to 32''

Also, between the 441 and 362, the 441 seems to have quite the following and aftermarket support while the 362 does not. Perhaps it just hasn't saturated the market yet, but it makes you wonder why its not so popular.

also the 441 powerhead is only 1.4 lbs heavier, so weight is not a deal breaker.

Both would have the M-Tronic control, there is no option unless you can find an old version in stock with a regular carb.
 
I go to a couple of forestry and arborist forums and the consensus is that the m-tronic is great. It has been around a few years. Even the guys that mod saws love it.

It is not fuel injection. It is an electronic controlled carb of sorts. There is a procedure for using it the first time and then it keeps tuning every time you use it.

I have a still ms441 non m-tronic now and a 25inch bar is enough for it in hard wood. It is a 70cc saw. I would go 90 cc if I run a 30 inch bar all the time in hard wood.
 
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
I go to a couple of forestry and arborist forums and the consensus is that the m-tronic is great. It has been around a few years. Even the guys that mod saws love it.

It is not fuel injection. It is an electronic controlled carb of sorts. There is a procedure for using it the first time and then it keeps tuning every time you use it.

I have a still ms441 non m-tronic now and a 25inch bar is enough for it in hard wood. It is a 70cc saw. I would go 90 cc if I run a 30 inch bar all the time in hard wood.


That is good to hear about m-tronic. Do you have any sort of guidelines for how much fuel mix your 441 goes through maybe per cord or per hour or something? I'm trying to decide if the difference in fuel between the 362, 441, 461, and 660/661 is worth considering.
 
My 441 still has a quarter tank left when my dads 028 runs out of fuel when we are cutting at the same time. Many guys say that the 441 uses less fuel than the 440 it replaced. The amount of wood you cut per tank is totally dependent on the wood and the operator.

All of the strato charged saws are supposed to be more fuel efficient.

Worrying about fuel efficiency of a saw is pointless unless you are a faller or something. For me the chain needs sharpening just as the saw runs of gas.
 
Right, I'm just trying to make a heavily educated decision before I drop a grand on a saw. As for carbs, the MS660 says it has an intelli-carb set up, is this what you mean by strato charged? An auto adjusting carb?

Some saws like the MS461 also advertise a new heavy duty HD2 air filtration system that looks desirable, its like a small pleated car car air filter. I wonder if that would be worth it?
 
Originally Posted By: jhellwig

It is not fuel injection. It is an electronic controlled carb of sorts. There is a procedure for using it the first time and then it keeps tuning every time you use it.


early 80s cars with the CCC come to mind..... but i imagine technology has progressed more than adequately for this to work far better than their predecessors.
 
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Right, I'm just trying to make a heavily educated decision before I drop a grand on a saw. As for carbs, the MS660 says it has an intelli-carb set up, is this what you mean by strato charged? An auto adjusting carb?

Some saws like the MS461 also advertise a new heavy duty HD2 air filtration system that looks desirable, its like a small pleated car car air filter. I wonder if that would be worth it?


Intelli-carb is just what they call the carb adjusting for a dirty air filter.

Strato charged is the saw taking straight air into the cylinder before it takes in the air fuel mix. It clears the exhaust gasses without putting raw fuel out the exhaust. The 441 362 and 261 and others have this.

The hd2 air filter is on all saws 440 and up.

The best thing about the 441 362 and 261 is the spring anti vibe. Way smoother than the old rubber anti vibe on the other saws.
 
After considering the options, I went with the MS 362 c-m. It had the HD filter, the m-tronic, and after considering the bigger saws seems to bridge a gap in some what of a sweet spot.

First impressions: the magnesium body is top shelf, fairly light with a 20 inch bar, started on the second pull, runs smooth, and to start the break in ran through some small 8'' ash limbs like nothing.

Thank you everyone for the pointers!
 
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