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#3317253 - 03/19/14 05:54 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
Mfrank84 Offline


Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 234
Loc: Georgia
Ironically, I just opened my mail and there is a check from Toyota for $125. The check was for, and I quote, "Unintended Acceleration Marketing, Sales Practices and Products Liability Litigation. I traded my Toyota Tundra in on my Jeep 3 1/2 years ago. I didn't even know there was a class action against them. I'm going to happily deposit this check into my account tomorrow.

That Tundra was the best vehicle I've ever owned. The reason I got rid of it is rather sappy but I got rid of it non-the-less.

After 9 1/2 years of ownership, that vehicle never had any problems except extreme vibration you would get when braking. It was my wife's DD and I never experienced it until it became my DD after she got a Nissan Xterra. When I got it I started investigating the wobbly breaking (my wife thought it was defective tires causing the problem and took it back several times complaining but they did nothing to make her happy). Turns out that they undersized the calipers and rotors for the truck which caused the rotors to overheat and wear out prematurely. After finally figuring out what the solution was, thanks to a Toyota Tundra forum, Toyota wanted $1400 to fix it since it wasn't under warranty. I fixed it myself for $280. Had to replace the calipers, rotors and brake pads to a larger size. Braking was smooth after replacing everything. Now, I feel like I'm out only $155 to fix what was clearly a engineering design flaw.


Edited by Mfrank84 (03/19/14 05:59 PM)
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#3317262 - 03/19/14 06:02 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
needsducktape Offline


Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 753
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
I think this this is an example of our gov't doing its job and PROTECTING its citizens and UPHOLDING the law.

A company tried to get away with something it knew was wrong, and is now going to pay the price.

I say good. I hope this serves to warn other companies from potentially doing the same thing!
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#3317268 - 03/19/14 06:08 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: KCJeep]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8969
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Why some otherwise red blooded Americans think Toyota walks on water is beyond me. You won't find many saints in the car building business, or oil business for that matter, but the Toyota/Honda Kool aid drinkers I run into make no sense at all to me.

To be fair, both Honda and Toyota have had long and nearly-unblemished histories of reliability. It's going to take more than a few years of bad apples to dislodge that reputation, just as it has taken the American car industry many years to bounce back from their own well-deserved reputation for mediocrity.

Not saying that's reasonable; just saying it's how it is.
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#3317312 - 03/19/14 06:53 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1702
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: FBI

“Toyota put sales over safety and profit over principle,”


no kidding, there's a stretch.. how about any corporate identity with this nebulous "number 1 this, number 1 that" mantra of no specificity = red flag, instead of "oh i better get one too"

Want it to stop? Then the consumer needs to stop responding to idiotic pavlovian triggers
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#3317314 - 03/19/14 06:55 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: d00df00d]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1702
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

To be fair, both Honda and Toyota have had long and nearly-unblemished histories of reliability. It's going to take more than a few years of bad apples to dislodge that reputation, just as it has taken the American car industry many years to bounce back from their own well-deserved reputation for mediocrity.

Not saying that's reasonable; just saying it's how it is.


it's all brainwashing and brand psychology. those reputations were "unblemished" as you put it due to serious PR/censorship muscle.
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#3317354 - 03/19/14 07:29 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
Kiwi_ME Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 645
Loc: New Zealand
Toyota have been out-lawyered and appear have taken the least expensive way out.
Their choices of technology in the area of throttle control is little different from any other manufacturer. Nothing solid has been found, they have just been out-manoeuvred in the courtroom.

What you're seeing here is not about safety, it's about greed.

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#3317355 - 03/19/14 07:29 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
Cristobal Offline


Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 1941
Loc: Montebello, CA
This sort of fine is intended to dissuade future conduct such as was done by Toyota. Had they not done the smoke & mirrors dance, said there was a problem, and aggressively found out why & how to fix it, they would have come out smelling like a rose.

After that CHP officer & his family got killed in that crash, there was a lot of the old it-should-not-happen-like-that-so-we-cannot-have-caused-it, "head in the sand" and circle-the-wagons stuff from Toyota.

But either a machine works properly, or it doesn't. It is intuitively obvious.
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#3317408 - 03/19/14 08:07 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: jrustles]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6814
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Want it to stop? Then the consumer needs to stop responding to idiotic pavlovian triggers


Yes, like a snooty/upity restricted country-clubber voiceover boasting about "the relentless pursuit of perfection"?? LOL
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#3317415 - 03/19/14 08:10 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: jrustles]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6814
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

To be fair, both Honda and Toyota have had long and nearly-unblemished histories of reliability. It's going to take more than a few years of bad apples to dislodge that reputation, just as it has taken the American car industry many years to bounce back from their own well-deserved reputation for mediocrity.

Not saying that's reasonable; just saying it's how it is.


it's all brainwashing and brand psychology. those reputations were "unblemished" as you put it due to serious PR/censorship muscle.


...and trillion$$ of bucks of relentless TV/print/net bombardment ads as well. wink
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#3317465 - 03/19/14 08:45 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 8938
Loc: OH
IIRC, there was nothing actually wrong with these cars, as was the true of the infamous Audi case of years earlier.
Had their drivers either pushed the left pedal as hard as they could, reached down and gotten the floor mat clear of the throttle pedal, turned the key switch to the off position or selected neutral, the festivities would have come to an end.
Most drivers first instinct under these conditions would be to brake hard.
Mine would be.
A couple of the buff books tried exactly that, flooring both pedals at the same time.
The brakes won every time.
Toyota error or driver error?
As with Audi, driver error every time.
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#3317493 - 03/19/14 09:14 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: jrustles]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8969
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: jrustles
it's all brainwashing and brand psychology. those reputations were "unblemished" as you put it due to serious PR/censorship muscle.

Between Honda and Toyota, there has been exactly one model in the past 10-15 years that I would even consider buying for myself. I recently had the opportunity to buy a fantastic example of that car, and I passed it up with barely a second thought. If they've brainwashed me, they've done a terrible job. wink

Prior to Toyota's recent nosedive, and with the further exception of Honda's glass 5-speed autos, every single Toyota and Honda I've had personal experience with has been stone cold reliable, even under incredible abuse. Maybe that makes me the one person in the entire universe whose experience has matched the hype.
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#3317571 - 03/19/14 10:30 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: morepwr]
wallyuwl Offline


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 1447
Loc: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted By: morepwr
Where does the money they pay in fines go? Not that I really care either way but just curious.


Well, about 53% of US households have any Federal tax liability. That is probably 75 million people (I have no idea, just a guess). I think that money should be divided up and provided to we the taxpaying people in the form of a tax rebate.

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#3317572 - 03/19/14 10:31 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6541
Loc: Florida
I don't feel Toyota are hyped up so dramatically. My 2003 Saturn ION was outlasted by numerous Toyota Corolla models that other people drove.

Sure, Toyota made some cars that sucked. The Tercel and Previa were not good, but that is a much smaller number of vehicles when compared to other companies.
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#3317617 - 03/19/14 11:20 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
accent2012 Offline


Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 440
Loc: Orlando, FL
Because, you know, cars are precision made machines. If something is off by a millimeter, then the car would explode. So, big government should do something to protect us weaklings.
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#3317626 - 03/19/14 11:41 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: fdcg27]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 584
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
IIRC, there was nothing actually wrong with these cars [ ...]
Had their drivers [...] reached down and gotten the floor mat clear of the throttle pedal, turned the key switch to the off position or selected neutral, the festivities would have come to an end.
Most drivers first instinct under these conditions would be to brake hard.
Mine would be.
[...]
Toyota error or driver error?
As with Audi, driver error every time.


fdcg27- Toyota Error. Pretty simple, really. The floormats were not properly secured by design, causing the accelerator to stick in some situations. In a separate design problem, accelerator mechanisms could stick due to a design flaw. Both of these are SERIOUS design problems, and if you are going to try to assign personal responsibility, I'd suggest it belongs to Toyota, not the victims of their design flaws. It's all too easy, with 20/20 hindsight and all the time in the world to analyze and play armchair-driver AFTER the cause has been determined, to say "oh yes, the floormat, they should've just moved it out of the way". If you've never heard of the floormat problem before (as was the case with the victims), I'm going to guess your reaction would be very different and much slower. Also turning a key is easy, but how about pushbutton start? To those in the transitionary period from key turn to pushbutton, they may not know to hold down the start button to emergency power-off. Again, 20-20 hindsight is easy as pie. Walking in their shoes in their circumstances, not so much. Shifting into neutral is the only one of your solutions that holds, though even on that one, turning a dial to shift isn't quite the same feeling when you're in the cockpit, especially in an emergency situation (not sure what type of shifter the vehicle(s) had.

I'm not sure how you can defend Toyota when they knew the problem existed in other models not ID'd for the floormat fix, volume-sellers like the Corolla, which Toyota now admits they KNEW had the very same problem, but which they chose not to fix. I guess playing armchair-driver is easier than admitting Toyota messed up- BIGTIME.
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