How Did Purulator Quality Control Sink So Fast?

[cheesepuffs]

Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
So, which filters are the ones to get now?


For what it's worth my second to last filter purchase was a P1. Last night I needed a filter so I bought a Fram Tough Guard and I feel good about it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: trx250x92
I first had a tear in a P1 around a yr ago & I made a thread on here about it. I emailed Purolator and they overnighted me a filter return kit with a prepaid shipping label. A few weeks later I got a package from them containing a letter with their analysis.


I think I was the first to report a media tear in a Classic back in May 2011. I had never seen a post about it before that. I reported it to Purolator back then. Now there are more and more instances being reported.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...sic#Post2260902

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I haven't put this issue under the microscope but I'm left wondering how many were torn during the process of cutting open and dissecting the filter. Has anyone had a canister style tear?


Less likely this is the case. If so, it is an unfortunate coincidence the tears occurred at approximately the same location throughout a wide range of filter dissections.

There is also a thread on here where there were tears at both ends of the same pleat on a PC.


+1 on what you're saying. Many people hear use a filter cutter tool, and as said the media tear is always on a pleat next to the seam, and usually on both ends of the pleat. It's a very repeatable failure mode.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
Wow. This board has taught me over the years to stay far away from Fram. Now I'm supposed to go back to Fram?

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
So, which filters are the ones to get now?


Have decided to pay double the price for a higher quality product (like Fram Ultra) as it's not worth the risk associated with defects in an $3.27 oil filter protecting a much larger investment.


The board should also be telling you that the Fram Ultra is very well liked here.

 

[Eddie]

Since many filter manufactures go through QA screw-ups, maybe the safe way is to alternate filter manufactures at each oil change or switch to cartridge filters..

 

[trx250x92]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So what was their analysis?
I can't remember what exactly the letter said but they confirmed it was defective and stated they couldn't further test it due it being cut open. They sent me 2 more P1's as a kind gesture. I ran one but didn't cut it open. I may cut the remaining filter open instead of using it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: trx250x92
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So what was their analysis?
I can't remember what exactly the letter said but they confirmed it was defective and stated they couldn't further test it due it being cut open. They sent me 2 more P1's as a kind gesture. I ran one but didn't cut it open. I may cut the remaining filter open instead of using it.


Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: trx250x92
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So what was their analysis?
I can't remember what exactly the letter said but they confirmed it was defective and stated they couldn't further test it due it being cut open. They sent me 2 more P1's as a kind gesture. I ran one but didn't cut it open. I may cut the remaining filter open instead of using it.


Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.


How many torn media issues were reported back then? I dont think one guy with a torn filter would influence them to make any changes..

 

[jhellwig]

They can do all sorts of testing but if they aren't torn off the assembly line there isn't much they are going to see in a lab. If the filters are only tearing in a real world setting the only way they are going to know is when people are reporting it.

They more than likely are testing filters off the line but it probably be no more than testing certain parameters that they define. Then they probably pull filters and do more extensive testing.

They can't test every tenth filter of every size of filter in real world applications. If they did the cost of the filter nuts.

This is just speculation on what purolator does.

 

[KCJeep]

I think this has been going on for a while now, I just don't think we realized until recently how common the problem was.

 

[FutureDoc]

Well, torn filters should make up a very small fraction of a percentage. Lets say 1 in 10,000 (might be more defective units, but lets go with that). Number of BITOG members (50K) out of 750mil English speakers, so that is 1 in 15,000 combined with the number of people who actually cut open their oil filters... 1 in a lot.

The theoretical number of failed oil filters exposed by those on BITOG who cut open their filters should be so astronomically low that even 2-3 failed filters reported is cause for serious concern. Since there are more than that... there is a big problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
They can do all sorts of testing but if they aren't torn off the assembly line there isn't much they are going to see in a lab. If the filters are only tearing in a real world setting the only way they are going to know is when people are reporting it.

They more than likely are testing filters off the line but it probably be no more than testing certain parameters that they define. Then they probably pull filters and do more extensive testing.

They can't test every tenth filter of every size of filter in real world applications. If they did the cost of the filter nuts.

This is just speculation on what purolator does.


It's pretty obvious that these media tears always happen on the widely spaced out pleats at the seam, and by now Purolator knows this. It wouldn't be hard to put some new filters on their test machines and run them through some test scenarios to stress test the media. Cut them open and see if the media survives or not. Make design and/or manufacturing changes from there if a problem is found. They really don't need to simulate every "in use" parameter to stress test the media. It's basic, typical R&D.

 

[Nick R]

I have to say, this whole purolator thing is making me a bit nervous. I just put a Motorcraft FL-910S on my focus, which I intend to leave on for 7-8k miles. I know the motorcrafts don't seem to be included in their QC issues, mainly the P1s. But still making me a bit nervous. Wishing I had just sprung for the FRAM Ultra like I did last time. :<

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
The theoretical number of failed oil filters exposed by those on BITOG who cut open their filters should be so astronomically low that even 2-3 failed filters reported is cause for serious concern. Since there are more than that... there is a big problem.


Exactly ... when a very small sample shows a repeating problem, then the problem is large.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: trx250x92
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So what was their analysis?
I can't remember what exactly the letter said but they confirmed it was defective and stated they couldn't further test it due it being cut open. They sent me 2 more P1's as a kind gesture. I ran one but didn't cut it open. I may cut the remaining filter open instead of using it.


Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.


How many torn media issues were reported back then? I dont think one guy with a torn filter would influence them to make any changes..


There always has to be an initial discovery by someone showing a potential problem. Now look how it has cascaded into a big focus on the "media tear scare".

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
The theoretical number of failed oil filters exposed by those on BITOG who cut open their filters should be so astronomically low that even 2-3 failed filters reported is cause for serious concern. Since there are more than that... there is a big problem.


Exactly ... when a very small sample shows a repeating problem, then the problem is large.


X3 he is right.

 

[cheesepuffs]

The density of the occurring problem within our small sample size is what's most alarming to me too. There's have been a lot of tears within the scope of our small community (compared to the global filter audience) so if they're popping up frequently among our members then that means there are TONS of torn Puros out there that just won't happen to be cut open.

I think the Puro defenders aren't taking into account the vast scope of this problem and that it isn't one or two filters than were ran for way too long. There must be thousands of defective filters on the market, the earliest of which were documented here in 2011 (three years ago!) so it's been a long running issue that has been mostly under the radar until now, and Purolator doesn't seem to be responding to the most recent members who have emailed them. I don't know what Purolator is thinking, but the fact that they seem to be remaining quiet makes me wonder if they're even working on finding a solution or not. It's not good PR.

 

[Turk]

Fooey.

I have 4 PureOne's. 3 for the Wife's Camry, 1 for either of my Saturns.

Switching to NAPA Gold, Amsoil or Mobil 1 Extended Performance. Also, can use the inexpensive but great Motorcraft FL-400S for the Saturns.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There always has to be an initial discovery by someone showing a potential problem. Now look how it has cascaded into a big focus on the "media tear scare".


You are correct.. Had they taken the time to research the [most likely only or select few] presented issue, none of this would be happening.

I am just saying to put yourself in Purolator's shoes. A few tears here and there isn't a big deal compared to how many filters they produce. Compare that to how many people actually cut open and discovered a tear and in their eyes, they are still making filters at a 99.99% success.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There always has to be an initial discovery by someone showing a potential problem. Now look how it has cascaded into a big focus on the "media tear scare".


You are correct.. Had they taken the time to research the [most likely only or select few] presented issue, none of this would be happening.

I am just saying to put yourself in Purolator's shoes. A few tears here and there isn't a big deal compared to how many filters they produce. Compare that to how many people actually cut open and discovered a tear and in their eyes, they are still making filters at a 99.99% success.


I have a different way of looking at it. Based on the relatively small amount of Purolator filters that are cut open and inspected here on BITOG vs. how many are actually used in the world, I'd say it's an alarming number of instances.

I highly doubt the 0.01% that are bad just so happen to all fall into the hands of BITOG members who happen to cut them open for a look inside.