Another Look at Ethanol

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Trash article. Subsidies were eliminated in 2011. And dig this one.... at the request of the ethanol producers! And there is NO loss to food supply using corn for ethanol production. This was a hack reporting job that exhibits extreme bias. No factual data whatsoever. I have seen the biofuel production situation since the early 70's first hand. There is no waste of any kind. There is no disruption to the food supply in any measure. In fact, there are several high end food products that are made from the residual distillers grain after the starches are removed for producing ethanol. Folks must seem to think that all of that is just dumped. It is a very in demand product that commands a good price because of it's quality.

Call your local Farm Bureau and they can fill you in on all the details. Or even you local ag extension office. They can set the record straight also. So many folks rely on the writings and rantings of those that wouldn't know corn from sorghum in a field if their life depended on it.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Trash article. Subsidies were eliminated in 2011. And dig this one.... at the request of the ethanol producers! And there is NO loss to food supply using corn for ethanol production. This was a hack reporting job that exhibits extreme bias. No factual data whatsoever. I have seen the biofuel production situation since the early 70's first hand. There is no waste of any kind. There is no disruption to the food supply in any measure. In fact, there are several high end food products that are made from the residual distillers grain after the starches are removed for producing ethanol. Folks must seem to think that all of that is just dumped. It is a very in demand product that commands a good price because of it's quality.

Call your local Farm Bureau and they can fill you in on all the details. Or even you local ag extension office. They can set the record straight also. So many folks rely on the writings and rantings of those that wouldn't know corn from sorghum in a field if their life depended on it.


Corn is about 70% starch. Almost all is removed. You are confusing 1 lb of corn and 1 lb of distillers grain. Hint, it take more than 1 lb of corn to make 1 lb of distillers grains.

Here you go:
Quote:
Distillers grain is an important co-product of drymill ethanol production. Drymill ethanol production process uses only the starch portion of the corn, which is about 70% of the kernel. All the remaining nutrients - protein, fat, minerals, and vitamins - are concentrated into distillers grain, a valuable feed for livestock. A bushel of corn weighs 56 pounds and will produce at least 2.8 gallons of ethanol and 17 pounds of distillers grain.

Ethanol.org

You going to stick with your "no loss to food supply" nonsense?
 
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Yes I am! And I am not confusing anything.

Roughly 80% of corn production is used for livestock feed. Whether it is also used for ethanol or not. The small portion of total corn production that is intended for human consumption is not affected in any way. Only 40% of total corn production in the US is used for ethanol production. And NONE of that 40% comes out of the corn production intended for human consumption.

True, it does take more than a lb of corn to make a lb of DDG. But that is not the whole story here. Most of the starches used in ethanol production, if fed to livestock, would end up on the ground or in the sludge ponds. Cattle, in particular, do not absorb the starches in corn, but instead pass them on thru. Since they are wasted in livestock production, why not use the starches in ethanol production and then give the resulting DDG to livestock, which they can actually use. So, while it does take more than a pound of corn to make a pound of DDG, it also takes far less DDG than corn to produce the same result on livestock.

This is so clear to one who actually has experience feeding livestock. It goes missing on those that have no clue what is involved in livestock production. This is the problem the agriculture community has in stating it's case. The vast majority of folks, and politicians, haven't a clue what the whole crop production, livestock production, and ethanol relationship is all about. It is a similar problem with biodiesel. Soybeans are crushed into meal and oil. The meal is used for livestock, the oil is used for a variety of purposes including biodiesel production. Otherwise, the oil would be nothing but a waste byproduct. Livestock don't need the oil and neither do people. People may use it to deep fat fry some foods, but they do not need it to live. So, the same situation exists.... there is no loss to the food supply to produce biodiesel.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yes I am! And I am not confusing anything.

Roughly 80% of corn production is used for livestock feed. Whether it is also used for ethanol or not. The small portion of total corn production that is intended for human consumption is not affected in any way. Only 40% of total corn production in the US is used for ethanol production. And NONE of that 40% comes out of the corn production intended for human consumption.

True, it does take more than a lb of corn to make a lb of DDG. But that is not the whole story here. Most of the starches used in ethanol production, if fed to livestock, would end up on the ground or in the sludge ponds. Cattle, in particular, do not absorb the starches in corn, but instead pass them on thru. Since they are wasted in livestock production, why not use the starches in ethanol production and then give the resulting DDG to livestock, which they can actually use. So, while it does take more than a pound of corn to make a pound of DDG, it also takes far less DDG than corn to produce the same result on livestock.

This is so clear to one who actually has experience feeding livestock. It goes missing on those that have no clue what is involved in livestock production. This is the problem the agriculture community has in stating it's case. The vast majority of folks, and politicians, haven't a clue what the whole crop production, livestock production, and ethanol relationship is all about. It is a similar problem with biodiesel. Soybeans are crushed into meal and oil. The meal is used for livestock, the oil is used for a variety of purposes including biodiesel production. Otherwise, the oil would be nothing but a waste byproduct. Livestock don't need the oil and neither do people. People may use it to deep fat fry some foods, but they do not need it to live. So, the same situation exists.... there is no loss to the food supply to produce biodiesel.


I'll post the same link in this thread. For someone with so much experience feeding cattle it looks like you would have come upon such info yourself.

Link
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The corn lobby is an indescribable evil,


Sounds like you have your priorities straight.
crazy.gif
 
If your priorities include healthy food, including meat and milk with proper fatty acid profiles, a proper food pyramid that's not a slab of grains on the base, HFCS in everything, soil use/preservation...and yes ethanol, I include them all in my priorities.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If your priorities include healthy food, including meat and milk with proper fatty acid profiles, a proper food pyramid that's not a slab of grains on the base, HFCS in everything, soil use/preservation...and yes ethanol, I include them all in my priorities.
That's where US agriculture is so screwed up. The government incentivises the stuff that we don't need much of and does nothing for the stuff that we do. Fresh fruit and veggie framers get nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If your priorities include healthy food, including meat and milk with proper fatty acid profiles, a proper food pyramid that's not a slab of grains on the base, HFCS in everything, soil use/preservation...and yes ethanol, I include them all in my priorities.
That's where US agriculture is so screwed up. The government incentivises the stuff that we don't need much of and does nothing for the stuff that we do. Fresh fruit and veggie framers get nothing.


Nice link. I would like to see some more info, as I am a big believer in all this highly processed and altered foodstuff having an effect on the final product. As Shannow pointed out, the fatty acid profiles of meat are altered by diet. I note that cows do not normally eat corn in the wild as a food as well, even the incredibly tasty and desirable byproducts of ethanol production.

TT said it best. Let's drill, frack, boil, bake, recycle, and cook ALL forms of energy and enjoy the huge economic boom that would employ folks at decent wages and make more taxes flow into the system. Demand will sort them out just fine, we don't need lobbied subsidies or mandates as Central Planning is already holding up a HUGE pipeline that could employ thousands.

Or we could just imagine more divisive labels for each other, that seems to be popular...
 
Originally Posted By: hatt

I'll post the same link in this thread. For someone with so much experience feeding cattle it looks like you would have come upon such info yourself.

Link


I read that a few years ago.

Only problem is the assumption that grain is the PRIMARY source of starch of energy. And the article only addresses cattle. As much or more of the products derived from DDG go to swine and poultry production as to cattle. But, go to a cattle feedlot, there is much more alfalfa, fermented silage, and other sources of carbs for livestock. And energy is not the primary concern of a feed lot operator. Stationary cattle in a feed lot do not need near the energy of grass fed cattle. The market demand is for a much leaner product than in years past. Protein has ALWAYS been a supplement to a sound cattle diet. And DDG products provide that. I currently have 45,000 lb of 60% protein Biolys brand product made from DDG at the Cargil Ethanol Plant in Blair, NE in my semi going to a feed producer north of Grand Rapids, MI. That producer takes several loads of this a week. I haul the stuff through out the midwest. The ethanol plant ships this stuff outside the country also.

And the article does address that the goal is to increase the digestion efficiency. DDG does that very nicely. I have never stated a 1 for 1 input for output of solid product from an ethanol production plant. Only a 1 for 1 or better total product production output for total corn input.

And now along comes a engine design company out of U.K., with corporate structure also in Detroit, Ricardo, that has specialized itself with ethanol internal combustion engines since the 1920's. They have put a prototype 3.2L Extreme Boost Direct Injection (EBDI) engine in a Chevy 3500HD that has the power, including low end torque, of the 6.6 Duramax Diesel, and much better fuel economy, for GM to do final testing on. And it uses E85!!! You remember... that super bad ethanol blend stuff with no fuel economy and a poor substitute for gas!
 
On page 158 of Obama's 2015 budget proposal is up 200 million to be used to support infrastructure for refueling stations for alternative fuels. This administration is definitely in the corner of corn ethanol. They talk climate change then they support this ecological mess.
 
TrevorS that's a great read. Just about every claim the corn lobby makes isn't true. The consumer is the one taken advantage of. A fuel most consumers don't want and higher prices on food. The real culprit is corn lobby money fueling political campaigns. How many more programs is this administration supporting that do nothing but hurt the economy?
 
Originally Posted By: chuck1955
TrevorS that's a great read. Just about every claim the corn lobby makes isn't true. The consumer is the one taken advantage of. A fuel most consumers don't want and higher prices on food. The real culprit is corn lobby money fueling political campaigns. How many more programs is this administration supporting that do nothing but hurt the economy?


Today's corn price is 4.55, not that high. I just don't see the conspiracy.

Why allow Exxon and Mobil to merge. Did you have any problem with that? Gas prices have gone up ever since.

Why does one give you heartburn but not the other. Are you connected to oil?

Full disclosure.
 
Everyone should take a moment to read the IG's report on the EPA recently released.

It may wake some of the cheerleaders up to the realities of huge Gov and central planning...
 
Originally Posted By: morris
steve EVERY ONE has an axe to grind.


Hey Morris!

You betcha they do, and mine is nice and sharp, as I love to take down large trees with my own labor!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone should take a moment to read the IG's report on the EPA recently released.


I keep looking for this report. When I search it brings me to some seriously wacky right wing websites.

So let me get this straight. You trust government when it agrees with your view, but distrust when it doesn't?
 
Turtlevette take the time to read TrevorS's link to Justfactsdaily.com. The reaction by one of the head corn lobbyist is hilarious. Non bias site being accused of links to big oil. Than they give the lobbyist a chance to respond and he disappears. How much oil does this program replace? Nobody seems to want to touch that question. The fact that fueleconomy.gov has almost every flex vehicle costing at least 25% more to use E85 verses gasoline has to tell you the consumer is paying for this scam.
 
Originally Posted By: chuck1955
the consumer is paying for this scam.


What kind of scam is it going to be when there is no gasoline for our vehicles? And there is not a competing product?
 
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