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#3308251 - 03/11/14 12:16 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4364
Loc: Michigan
There's going to be a 5w50 Platinum. That should make the Ford Mustang Boss guys happy.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#3308290 - 03/11/14 12:56 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: Clevy]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go


I'm so honored!

The specs don't disappoint me as much as they do others. Sure, if VI had been higher and Noack lower, it would have made for a more enthusiastic purchase and more anticipation amongst oil nerds, but would you have noticed a real improvement or would it really have been a feel good factor?

I think you need to find the real testing results that are applicable for you in order to optimize oil choice. It seems that all oils that meet manufacturer specs will ensure engine longevity, so after that it's about extending oci and what your butt dino prefers.

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#3308297 - 03/11/14 01:03 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
I would add that the way the questions have been answered reflects a corporation who feels it is a good idea to engage in "social media" vs a corporation that needs to make it part if their strategy. Someone in marketing decided this was a good idea but the reality is that BITOG is not the focus of Pennzoil's marketing and answering our questions with the technical explanations that we deserve isn't something that they have time for.

However, contrast that with Mobil 1's website where they answer customer questions directly and in a very straightforward manner with a good level of technical knowledge. Being straightforward is more likely to win you business and clearly many car owners ask oil questions so there is an interest level that does not require a BITOG level of obsession.

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#3308302 - 03/11/14 01:17 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not. If the new Platinum Euro 5w40 is the same as what I have, I would buy more (if they made it available and competitive in price to M1 0w40 and now Castrol 0w40).

Without the answers, I just don't know so picked up Castrol 0w40 on special and will see if that becomes my preferred Euro oil for the Mercedes.

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#3308313 - 03/11/14 01:29 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: TrevorS]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26141
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not.

Does it really matter to your Mercedes if it's GTL or not? It's certainly some very stable base oil if it has Noack of 6.8%, GTL or not.

BTW, I got it for $3/qt on a recent PepBoys sale. If you're patient, some kind of a sale will eventually come around.
_________________________
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#3308331 - 03/11/14 01:54 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
TrevorS Offline


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: California
No of course not. Once the spec is met, it's all about the butt dino.

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#3308377 - 03/11/14 02:53 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
MotorsportsX Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 79
Loc: North Carolina
well... looks like im going to stock up on ultra Euro... though.. i think lately i do have faith in Pennzoil to make a "better" product.

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#3308494 - 03/11/14 04:48 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: Garak]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 10245
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?
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#3308538 - 03/11/14 05:22 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: Trav]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7618
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?



I'm sure I saw a post from Molekule stating that the + thingy was used but unofficial.
He'd know though , he is in the industry.
Here's my guess at it though. A stock is graded based on its characteristics. Since visom and gtl is relatively new on the scene perhaps they are referred to as + in and amongst industry professionals but the actual grading criteria hasn't been modified to be a + yet.
Just my guess. I think gtl is better than pao on so many levels yet pao is group 4 and gtl group 3.
Maybe the grading system hasn't caught up with technology.
_________________________
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Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3308610 - 03/11/14 06:38 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: wwillson]
llbts1 Offline


Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 27
Loc: Texas
Perhaps the Pennzoil folks would be kind enough to come back on the board and address some of these questions and concerns?

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#3308668 - 03/11/14 07:45 PM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: bluesubie]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Several people on this forum that are in the industry have always said that Group II/III+ was just marketing.

Now you guys are saying that Pennzoil is inferring that these oils are Group III+ because they call them PurePlus? That's funny. No oil company that sponsors BITOG is ever allowed to come up with marketing slogans again.

Read my original quote. I know that Group II+ and Group III+ are not official designations. My issue is that SOPUS mentions they're not official designations then falls into the same marketing speak. I'm not saying they are calling their base stocks Group III+. I'm saying that they say that adding a "+" to the group number is a problem, yet using the word "Plus" in reference to their base stock name is fine. Group III+ base stocks technically don't exist by industry rules. Neither do "PurePlus" base stocks, or Visom, or TriSyn, HT Purity base stocks, or whatever other marketing gibberish one wants to mention.

I have no issue with marketing. Just don't be hypocritical. I hammered Ashland, too, when they waved off their high, out of spec Noack numbers while having a history of making a giant stink when M1 had compliance issues with SM/GF-4.

With respect to marketing slogans, we BITOGers obviously aren't immune to them. However, we don't, as a group, tend to get impressed by made up words. We'd be a lot more impressed had they actually used "GTL" or the like on the bottle.

What does PurePlus mean? Pure + Contaminants?

Trav: I don't have a problem with any oil company using Group II+ or Group III+ terminology. It's just a way to differentiate a higher VI base stock and a refining method that's a little different from the "normal" Group II and Group III processes. Some companies do it, some don't.

They're marketing words and that's fine. If they mean an very high VI Group III, no problem. It's just disingenuous for an oil company to disparage the use of Group III+ terminology and then basically do the same thing.

Here, here, and here are some references as to how Petro-Canada differentiates their process from the "normal" Group III base stocks. The various sheets describe the processes, and they use their own words, too, but aren't pouncing on other companies for inventing words.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3309024 - 03/12/14 06:44 AM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: TrevorS]
DuckRyder Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1509
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.


I agree, obviously the marketing and legal department got their way with them.


Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.


I am pretty sure VW507 requires a 5w-30 viscosity, so the 0w-40 and 5w-40's can't meet it. I'm more concerned with the replacement of "certified" and "approved" with "meet the spec"... tells me they probably won't be official. With all the squishiness and crawfishing going on in these answers I sure don't want to try to deal with them an oil related issue...
_________________________
Robert
  • 1996 Acura 3.5RL
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
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#3309030 - 03/12/14 06:59 AM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: Garak]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 10245
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Your right its tough to get through the smoke and mirrors.
Its not the product you got, its the product you think you got.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3309032 - 03/12/14 07:06 AM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: Trav]
rockydee Offline


Registered: 03/09/14
Posts: 151
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Trav
Your right its tough to get through the smoke and mirrors.
Its not the product you got, its the product you think you got.


Interesting comments. For me it will be the oil I won't get now. I'm not a big fan of smoke -n- mirrors, or a company cheapening a product once they've established their customers. Still lots of other good oils around to pick from, no biggie, just a disappointment to some of us.

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#3309048 - 03/12/14 07:35 AM Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A [Re: rockydee]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I've been doing some thinking, and perhaps we're being a little hard on SOPUS here. They did some things I think they should have, and did some that I think they should have left alone.

The big PU/PP issue was marketing, specifically differentiating the products and not making PU look redundant or even lesser than PP, despite the price. Getting the ACEA specs on the products was good, as was dexos1. I understand many here don't like the dexos1 business, but it would be foolish to ignore the synthetic dexos1 business.

Where they seem to have failed is differentiation of the two products, outside the naming improvement. The naming does help, but really, what do they claim PU does that PP won't? They both meet the same specs. The Pennzoil warranty for PP is shorter than for PU, but who knows if that's being changed, and a lifetime mileage limit on an oil is dicey at best (when M1's and Petro-Canada's warranties are perpetual). Both products are supposed to be used for OEM intervals only. So, it seems to me that PP and PU are competing with each other and not Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP, respectively. That's a big problem.

With the reformulation (notably for PU, if there even is a real reformulation there), these are still outstanding products. Part of the problem, especially with the Noack issue, is the target audience. We were all paying attention to the low Ultra Noack numbers and were suitably impressed when they were verified.

Then, PYB and QSGB come out with ridiculously low Noack numbers in a recent PQIA test. That's just bad luck and bad timing.

From a Canadian perspective, the real issue is getting Ultra out and about. PP isn't hard to find, and the price is improving. Ultra is just about impossible to find and is at pretty close to Red Line prices, waving at Royal Purple in the mirror $20 ago. That is absolutely unacceptable.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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