Baldwin center tube test...

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After reading about the Amsoil filter's center pooping out on the Honda application and Baldwin/Hastings manufactures said filter I was concerned due to the fact I use Baldwin on various customers vehicles and don't want a problem.The B2 Baldwin I have partially dissected went to further examination when I read the Amsoil post.The top portion of the spiral tube (this tube has perferations rather than holes)is in a "boss" at the top part of the metal endcap,then epoxied in with the media.The bottom is held in the same way but the by-pass is insde the bottom part of the tube ,spot welded to the bottom endcap.I took a ballpeen hammer and a flat punch and gave each end(where the center tube meets the baseplate) a good rap...the tube bent where I hit it...but DID NOT separtate from it's baseplate...good enough for me.The Baldwin B2 in this case more than passes my examination.Just a little FYI
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quote:

Originally posted by Greaser:
After reading about the Amsoil filter's center pooping out on the Honda application and Baldwin/Hastings manufactures said filter I was concerned due to the fact I use Baldwin on various customers vehicles and don't want a problem.The B2 Baldwin I have partially dissected went to further examination when I read the Amsoil post.The top portion of the spiral tube (this tube has perferations rather than holes)is in a "boss" at the top part of the metal endcap,then epoxied in with the media.The bottom is held in the same way but the by-pass is insde the bottom part of the tube ,spot welded to the bottom endcap.I took a ballpeen hammer and a flat punch and gave each end(where the center tube meets the baseplate) a good rap...the tube bent where I hit it...but DID NOT separtate from it's baseplate...good enough for me.The Baldwin B2 in this case more than passes my examination.Just a little FYI
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If you send me your snail-mail address, I will gladly send you a Baldwin B32 filter for free. I will also cover shipping as I am interested in someone from BITOG looking at what seems to me to be a peculiar design.

This filter has no built in bypass and had a center tube which was decidely shorter than the internal media. The center tube was bonded to the top of the can, but the lower portion (closest to the base plate) was shorter than the filter pleat pack. Thus, you could see the pleat pack itself.

Baldwin assures me it is okay. However, if you want to look at one, I will gladly send it to you.

Bob W.
 
I bought my first Baldwin filter, a B161-S, yesterday. While I was looking at the filter I noticed that the center tube is not as long as the filter media. The center tube stops short of the threaded baseplate and I can see approximately 1/4" of filter media. I called Baldwin and they said to exchange it.

I also have a couple amsoil filters, so I took a look at those. Both of them had short center tubes but not as short as the Baldwin.

I wonder how that unsupported filter media holds up?

[ November 09, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Ben H ]
 
I have a supply of Baldwin filters.. B243.

They exhibit the same "too short" center tube when looking into the outlet.

I saw their reply to you here that it was not an item of concern, so I am going to use them, but if someone does some study on it, I'd be interested.
 
I believe you that the center tube is short of being connected to the end plates,it's just not made this way on the B2 model.Personally I have NEVER seen a "short tube" design on the many filters I've taken apart and the entire thing sounds like a manufacturing mistake.The center tube gives the entire filter it's strength!The media can't hold up to the pressure of the spring bearing down on it,especially when it gets oil-soaked and hot...something sounds fishy here
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I emailed Baldwin about the short center tube I found in the oil filter I have. Hopefully they will email me back with an answer. It sure seems like a manufacturing defect to me.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Greaser:
I believe you that the center tube is short of being connected to the end plates,it's just not made this way on the B2 model.Personally I have NEVER seen a "short tube" design on the many filters I've taken apart and the entire thing sounds like a manufacturing mistake.The center tube gives the entire filter it's strength!The media can't hold up to the pressure of the spring bearing down on it,especially when it gets oil-soaked and hot...something sounds fishy here
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I have 4 Baldwin B31 filters sitting in my garage. All exbihit this short tube. I then looked at a different Baldwin filter when I got more oil from the distributor. It also exhibited this issue.

I have been in contact with Baldwin. Essentially, their answer was not to worry.

Sorry, but I am worried...

I have never seen a filter with an exposed pleat before. That's why I am willing to send any one of the filters I have to a knowledgeable (spelling?) BITOG filter guru for inspection and/or analysis. I will gladly cover all shipping costs. I will even toss in 50 clams to help defray testing costs.

Bob W.
 
I don't consider myself a "guru" on oil filters but the entire filter is supportrd by the center tube.Think about it.Endplates hold the epoxied media to the center tube,along with a by-pass if required...correct?Then it's put into a metal can with a stiff spring on the top endplate to keep pressure on the anti-drainback valve...then they roll-crimp the metal can to the bottom threaded plate...everything is held to-gether and the center tube takes the spring pressure to the base threaded plate.. right?How is the paper/glass media supposed to take the stress of the spring if the tube is hanging in the breeze?If you can put your finger inside the tube and press towards the media...making the media move...it's a POS IMO.
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Here's the reply I got from Baldwin:

"The maximum gap between the center tube and end cap should be .090". If the center tube is .250" shorter, then it is way out of spec, and you can exchange the filter.
We have never seen a pleat pack fail in an automotive filter because the differential pressure across the element does not get high enough to cause a failure.
We are working with our manufacturing people to get the maximum allowable gap between the center tube and end cap down to .030"."

It seems like other filters have no gap between their center tube and end cap. This sure is interesting. I returned the filter I bought to the distributor and they also contacted Baldwin. They are supposed to call me when they know more.
 
"Acceptable gap"
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So the media is supporting the filter from colapsing...didn't work to good on the Amsoil filter did it!Who knows how many other filters of this slip-shod design failed also...how many people cut open oil filters, besides a few nuts like us,to see how they perform?I think I'm going to drop the Baldwin line and stick with the NAPA Gold oil filter.This is TOTALLY INSANE
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..even FRAM has a suported media column..albeit cardboard...but still supported!
 
Go to that link and click on the center tube portion...to have a gap from the endcap to the center tube is plain CR@P!They are cheaping out on a .2 cent piece of metal to leave the PAPER media to hold it's own against the elements.This is worst than a Fram cardboard endcap and plastic popet by-pass valve.What is going to happen is what happened to the Amsoil filter...media failure due to an UNSUPPORTED media.
 
Greaser..

the paper media and center tube are encased in the endcaps. The black stuff in the endcap is a liquid glue, called plastisol. This prevents flow of oil under the pleats and under the center tube.

And to be real technical..lol..the plastisol in each end cap is different.

The media surrounds the center tube, the person on the production line inserts this into the bottom endcap, then with their hand holding the media/center tube in place..the top end cap is put onto the element, to complete the process.

The reason the center tube is slightly shorter than the media is to make sure the media sinks lower into the glue in the endcap. The neck on the endcap prevents the center tube from sinking totally into the endcap. Otherwise, when the top endcap placed on the element, the center tube may not "set" properly. Having to long of a center tube creates problems with the media settling into the endcap. There is a method to the madness..
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It then goes into an oven and heat cures the plastisol in the endcaps. Once it cools, it then hardens creating a complete bond with the media and endcap.

Hope this helps..
 
I emailed Amsoil and got this reply:

"In response to your inquiry, there is no problem with this filter. The purpose of the tube is to prevent the media from collapsing. As long as the tube is in place, it really does not matter if it is attached at either end."

I've used Amsoil filters for a couple of years, but have never inspected them closely after removing them. I hope none have failed.

Maybe the filter element is not subjected to very high compression forces at its endcaps.
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Many people probably drive their cars 100,000+ miles using fram oil filters with the cardboard endcaps. I'm curious to understand this issue. Are Baldwins junk or am I missing something?
 
Filter Guy...Have you seen the pics from the Amsoil filter failure?The gap we are talking about here is almost a 1/4 inch...you need that much of a gap to make sure the media is completly set into the plastisol?...Like I said all the oil filters I've taken apart had the center tube touching the top and bottom endcaps,with the media epoxied into the endcaps just fine...there was no need for a huge gap between endcaps and the whole thing sounds like a cover-up to me.
 
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