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#3302822 - 03/05/14 10:18 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 649
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
I love the entertainment. might as well be talking to a brick.
always read one's sig line.good night, all.
_________________________
"there is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid, he doesn't know you have the better of him." -- john raper

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#3302830 - 03/05/14 10:27 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1466
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt?


Because half the the threads about issues you post on here, you never make any mention of codes being read or the like shrug

Quote:
I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.


Is it a Walmart Equis or something? I'm guessing you aren't getting real time readouts of various temperatures on the vehicle. I have a scanner that I spent a few bucks on (AutoEnginuity) and it does basically everything.

Quote:
the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on.


They weren't on because you had the defrost running, which automatically turns on the fans once it is warm enough to fire the AC compressor?

Quote:
And no I wouldnt do this all the time.


You said you've been doing this for a while. And you said you do it all the time to your RAM.

Quote:
But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous.


So filling your oil with fuel is harmless? Cool. You're the expert obviously. I stand corrected.

Quote:
But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


LOL!!! Dude, you bought a weapon truck that you are now complaining about the gas mileage on, put a fuel pump in it, still couldn't get it working, took it to a shop who replaced the filter put ANOTHER pump in it, and then you replaced the O2 today hoping it fixes your 80's gas mileage problem. You have a Saturn with a mystery misfire.... Do I need to go digging back through your other threads?

You flood your mom's Focus and then pump the pedal, flooding it worse because you didn't know enough to go WOT to do a flood clear start and the car is a POS? And seriously, you drive a Saturn and call the Focus a penalty box? I've had plenty of seat time in both big guy and the Focus is the nicer car. Yeah, there are nicer cars in the segment in terms of interior (Jetta, 3-series) but a 2011 Focus isn't any more "miserable" than anything else that was in its price bracket.

And I know you have a dislike for Ford products, we've been through that your entire tenure on this board. So it comes as no surprise that you'd try to pass the buck on your own lack of knowledge as to the issue being with the vehicle's manufacturer and not resting solely on your shoulders where it belongs. You flooded the car and didn't know how to do a flood clear. Now you do. Live and learn.



I didn't read your whole blurb of [censored] but my scanner does abs trans and engine codes and live data. The reason I haven't posted any codes is because there aren't any.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt?


Because half the the threads about issues you post on here, you never make any mention of codes being read or the like shrug

Quote:
I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.


Is it a Walmart Equis or something? I'm guessing you aren't getting real time readouts of various temperatures on the vehicle. I have a scanner that I spent a few bucks on (AutoEnginuity) and it does basically everything.

Quote:
the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on.


They weren't on because you had the defrost running, which automatically turns on the fans once it is warm enough to fire the AC compressor?

Quote:
And no I wouldnt do this all the time.


You said you've been doing this for a while. And you said you do it all the time to your RAM.

Quote:
But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous.


So filling your oil with fuel is harmless? Cool. You're the expert obviously. I stand corrected.

Quote:
But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


LOL!!! Dude, you bought a weapon truck that you are now complaining about the gas mileage on, put a fuel pump in it, still couldn't get it working, took it to a shop who replaced the filter put ANOTHER pump in it, and then you replaced the O2 today hoping it fixes your 80's gas mileage problem. You have a Saturn with a mystery misfire.... Do I need to go digging back through your other threads?

You flood your mom's Focus and then pump the pedal, flooding it worse because you didn't know enough to go WOT to do a flood clear start and the car is a POS? And seriously, you drive a Saturn and call the Focus a penalty box? I've had plenty of seat time in both big guy and the Focus is the nicer car. Yeah, there are nicer cars in the segment in terms of interior (Jetta, 3-series) but a 2011 Focus isn't any more "miserable" than anything else that was in its price bracket.

And I know you have a dislike for Ford products, we've been through that your entire tenure on this board. So it comes as no surprise that you'd try to pass the buck on your own lack of knowledge as to the issue being with the vehicle's manufacturer and not resting solely on your shoulders where it belongs. You flooded the car and didn't know how to do a flood clear. Now you do. Live and learn.


The defrost was turned off after it warmed up and fans kicked back on as needed. Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump and a coil and had a lazy o2 sensor. If you are going to compare a 24 yr old work truck to a 5 yr old focus that has been babied your a fool wouldn't you agree? Her focus has needed more stupid things fixed than my saturn or the truck combined.
The truck is 20 yrs older has a lot more miles and has actually done work. The saturn also older more miles and the slight miss was fixed today. Guess what it was when. The previous owners had the icm replaced the tech didn't clean the grounds. My instructor caught it not me so I won't take credit for it but it's fixed cost me zero dollars and 10 minutes labor.
And to be honest and I'm not being based my saturn is quieter than the focus and smoother. You get alot of engine vibrations through the cabin on that car. And tire and wind noise is ridiculous. As far as interior quality I'll give the focus a slight edge maybe....it squeaks at rattles quite a bit though. Difference is 18,000 car vs 1,700 dollar. The difference it quality is not near far enough apart to justify the cost.

The ram was a daily driver from 95-09 and was a driver for me when needed until I bought the chevy. But yes now it's a garage queen. But it is very capable of driving down the road safety and adequately right now.
I'll be honest my comment about the ford being sensitive was mostly sarcasm figured you were bright enough to pick that up....really I did. But I don't care for most fords. I find them the most tedious to work on and prefer not to. That being said the drive train on the focus is a reliable combo. Just wish it didn't shake so much. Reminds me of my old saturn when it had a broken engine mount.

And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been. Yes clear flood mode stops injector pulse but as soon as you let off the gas to do a normal start it should fire up not flood itself. The car is at fault. I understand you can't fathom the idea of a Ford vehicle having a problem but this one does. And when they find it I'll be sure to let you know what it is just so you can realize your not know it all that you think you are. smile
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



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#3302839 - 03/05/14 10:32 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Rolla07]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1466
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?


I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues. I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.


People generally take snow and ice off their cars and warm them up because they plan on going somewhere with them not just for warming the car up for the heck of it. This would result in issues. Like condensation in your oil. Moisture in oil.


I did drive it down the road to get the mail. Which is what I was asked to do. And also I would like my mom to come home from vacation to a clean car I don't want her to have to clean her windows. I am capable and she deserves it. I'm also surprising her with a new set of tires and cleaning the interior. She was a great parent to me and deserves me to do what I can to make her life easier. I think she will be very happy with the new tires to. She was stressing about it because money is tight. So I figured it was the least I could do.
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



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#3302844 - 03/05/14 10:36 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1466
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.


Its a relatively new car with heated o2 sensors it hits closed loop pretty quick. A general rule of thumb is 120 degrees and if it warming all the way up its kicking into closed loop.
its been around -10 - 15degrees here if I let the battery sit for a whole week in the cold it wont start the vehicle thats why I started it. Today was the last day of really cold so I probably wouldn't have started it again while she was gone.


Heated O2 sensors are nothing new, my 12 year old truck has them. It hits closed loop by 100*F water temp and pretty quickly when driving as indicated by a Scangauge, which eliminates guessing and rules of thumb. Doesn't mean the engine is running optimally at that point, and it's definitely not warmed all the way up at that point. Cold idling is the worst state for the car's engine to be in and is not the same as driving for the same length of time.

What is the actual water temp you are letting it get to (a number, not how much snow melted off the car)? Oil temp if you can access it? The t-stat probably doesn't open until 197*F. The gauge on the dash is practically meaningless.

If the battery goes dead after a week, the battery is already failing or there is a parasitic drain, and having the engine run in a suboptimal state to save it doesn't make good sense. Better to spend $100 on a new battery. Engines cost a lot more.

Why not just drive the car? You're burning gas anyway and driving is a lot better for it.


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



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#3302846 - 03/05/14 10:39 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1466
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man


the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on. And no I wouldnt do this all the time. But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous. But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


Hasn't the latest GM been a non-stop money pit that died promptly after you bought it, and one of the Chryslers doesn't move?


I answered you with a reply I did to overkill. The ram moves fine but as of a month ago isn't a daily driver because it's getting all redone. The chevy is 24 yrs old and needed a fuel pump and a coil and the o2 sensor was lazy.....I don't think you can call a 24 ehhhh actually almost 25 yr old vehicle that needed three things a money pit. It runs good now been driving it 50 miles a day.
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



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#3302848 - 03/05/14 10:40 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7101
Loc: Birmingham, AL
"Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump"

The rage makes your post somewhat incoherent, but very entertaining.

"And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been."



The old chevyboy is back. popcorn




_________________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT
3.0 V6 / 5-Speed Automatic / 2WD
154K miles

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#3302852 - 03/05/14 10:43 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7101
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one


You attack first, explain later. It started off with just starting the car for a few minutes, now it's a 15 minute warm up and driving it. You change the story so you can never be "wrong."

And of course, people giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to give suggestions get lashed out at because chevyboy is always right!
_________________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT
3.0 V6 / 5-Speed Automatic / 2WD
154K miles

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#3302854 - 03/05/14 10:49 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25646
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man


I didn't read your whole blurb of [censored] but my scanner does abs trans and engine codes and live data. The reason I haven't posted any codes is because there aren't any.


Ahhh, so you just don't know how to use it. Got it.



Quote:
The defrost was turned off after it warmed up and fans kicked back on as needed.


Sure, I believe you wink

Quote:
Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump and a coil and had a lazy o2 sensor. If you are going to compare a 24 yr old work truck to a 5 yr old focus that has been babied your a fool wouldn't you agree?


The Chevy has needed two fuel pumps that you couldn't diagnose correctly apparently (why it had to go to the shop and why you were asking for advice here.... like you do for every vehicle) So if anybody is a fool sir, I think a mirror might be in order. Also it is "you're", as in an abbreviation of "you are". Unless you think I own a fool? However I do believe that kind of nonsense has been illegal in North America for quite some time now wink

Quote:
Her focus has needed more stupid things fixed than my saturn or the truck combined.


I find that surprising given the number of threads you've posted on here about your vehicles. Though I'd find it less so if you are the one doing the troubleshooting grin

Quote:
The truck is 20 yrs older has a lot more miles and has actually done work.


So you now know the entire history of the truck you picked up something like a month ago? Do you own a time machine? If so, can I borrow it?

Quote:
The saturn also older more miles and the slight miss was fixed today. Guess what it was when. The previous owners had the icm replaced the tech didn't clean the grounds. My instructor caught it not me so I won't take credit for it but it's fixed cost me zero dollars and 10 minutes labor.


Don't worry, when it starts burning oil I'm sure the miss will come back grin

Quote:
And to be honest and I'm not being based my saturn is quieter than the focus and smoother.


In your unbiased opinion of course wink

Quote:
You get alot of engine vibrations through the cabin on that car. And tire and wind noise is ridiculous. As far as interior quality I'll give the focus a slight edge maybe....it squeaks at rattles quite a bit though. Difference is 18,000 car vs 1,700 dollar. The difference it quality is not near far enough apart to justify the cost.


They were both new once. As I said, the Focus is on-par with basically anything else in its price bracket. That doesn't mean you have to like it.

Quote:
The ram was a daily driver from 95-09 and was a driver for me when needed until I bought the chevy. But yes now it's a garage queen. But it is very capable of driving down the road safety and adequately right now.


So leave it parked. You aren't doing it any favours just running it and not driving it. I pointed that out earlier but the reasoning behind WHY seems to be lost on you shrug

Quote:
I'll be honest my comment about the ford being sensitive was mostly sarcasm figured you were bright enough to pick that up....really I did.


You aren't good at conveying sarcasm. Or using English. Don't worry, I didn't figure you'd be bright enough to figure that one out on your own so I decided to be blunt.

Quote:
But I don't care for most fords. I find them the most tedious to work on and prefer not to.


That was the case for your previous two aliases on here too. Unless you want to pretend we didn't have these back-and-forths in the past.

Quote:
That being said the drive train on the focus is a reliable combo. Just wish it didn't shake so much. Reminds me of my old saturn when it had a broken engine mount.

And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been. Yes clear flood mode stops injector pulse but as soon as you let off the gas to do a normal start it should fire up not flood itself. The car is at fault. I understand you can't fathom the idea of a Ford vehicle having a problem but this one does. And when they find it I'll be sure to let you know what it is just so you can realize your not know it all that you think you are. smile


If you did clear flood, it would have started once the flood cleared. You keep your foot to the floor until it starts. That's how you perform it. So you did NOT perform "clear flood". And that also contradicts your opening post where you said you pumped it.

I've dealt with many problems with Ford vehicles, the brand is not infallible, just like any other. They all have issues and quirks. I've experienced the one you just did first hand on the Expedition (and other non-Ford vehicles as well) due to the reasons myself and others have outlined in this thread.

Your technique needs some work BTW. Making an inflammatory remark then trying to pin it on me as "fanboyism" because you are unwilling to admit to your own incompetence is quite transparent here. Instead of acknowledging that the process you followed was flawed and owning up to that you instead choose to make disparaging remarks about the vehicle/manufacturer because you of course can do no wrong and then you change and manipulate what transpired as the thread progresses until it in no way resembles what you posted originally.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
05 Forester XT

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#3302858 - 03/05/14 10:59 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25646
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one


You attack first, explain later. It started off with just starting the car for a few minutes, now it's a 15 minute warm up and driving it. You change the story so you can never be "wrong."

And of course, people giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to give suggestions get lashed out at because chevyboy is always right!


Hey, at least we have no jaw-jacking threats yet! But the night is still young grin

He's already resorted to profanity so I'm sure we aren't too far off.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
05 Forester XT

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#3302861 - 03/05/14 11:03 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7101
Loc: Birmingham, AL
And this is only page two!
_________________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT
3.0 V6 / 5-Speed Automatic / 2WD
154K miles

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#3302864 - 03/05/14 11:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1466
Loc: southern mo
Have a great night guys..I'm not going to explain my self at every turn
I apologize I wasn't straight forward with the initial info given that is my fault I'm using my phone and hate typing long lengthy things on it. No excuse I should have given the full details. I was only wanting things i should mention to the dealer if need be or maybe a common issue for focuses.
I hope you all have a good night and hopefully tomorrow the dealer will have the info on the issue and I will report back. Take care everyone
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
95 Dodge ram 1500 5.9l 183,000 miles



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#3302872 - 03/05/14 11:23 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
bvance554 Offline


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 837
Loc: VA
Well that was entertaining. It got me to thinking about my boat that has been sitting in the driveway all winter. Through this long cold winter. I think I should go start it up for a few minutes. Why? Because it was cold.


Edited by bvance554 (03/05/14 11:24 PM)

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#3303644 - 03/06/14 06:19 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7101
Loc: Birmingham, AL
So what did the dealer find?
_________________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT
3.0 V6 / 5-Speed Automatic / 2WD
154K miles

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#3303653 - 03/06/14 06:26 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7182
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
So what did the dealer find?


Operator error, but what will they tell Ram_boy?

That's the question.
_________________________
2011 Subaru Forester X Prem. 5MT

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#3303654 - 03/06/14 06:27 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: bvance554]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2897
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Well that was entertaining.


Yeah, makes me thankful OVERKILL doesn't do my posts like that. laugh

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