ford focus hard start

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My moms been on vacation so I have been going over to feed her animals and start her car. Did so Monday everything was fine. Went over today started the car and it started for a brief second and shut off. Then just cranked and cranked. I pumped the throttle and after about 6 ten second cranks. (I let it sit a minute between cycles.) It sputtered to life blowing quite a bit of black smoke and then once gathering itself it amoothed out and was fine.
Its a 2010 has 69,000 on it and has never done this. She has an extended warranty so itll be covered most likely. I drove it straight to the dealer so she wouldnt have to mess with it. But now its running fine so the dealer may not find an issue. Anyone have any experience with maybe a similar issue. Or even have an idea what could cause that? It didn't throw a cel. I was hoping it would. I assume it was getting fuel since when it started it blew black smoke.
it drive fine the 15 miles to the dealer though. Go figure.. also I didnt know this but rhe car has a one touch self crank system. So itll crank for an extra 8 seconds or so even after you stop Turning the key in the event that the car doesnt start itll keep trying..., I don't particularly care for that system but such is life.
 
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
To charge the battery?


Depending on how long he's letting the car run, it may not be doing the battery any favors.

Driving is good for cars. Sitting at idle for a few minutes is not.
 
About once every 2 weeks I'd start the car and take it for a nice 30 minute highway run.
 
If you start the car multiple times and don't let it warm up it will flood just like you described. I bet they find nothing wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Why do you start it every day?


+1 Why would you do this? It takes a lot more battery power to start the car than will be replenished in a couple seconds/minutes of running. Ill bet you killed the battery to the point that it didnt want to run right. Put it on a charger as a first step.
 
Throttle body was probably dirty and stuck for a second is just get some carb cleaner and clean it I bet that's what the dealer does that's what we would do at work
 
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Why do you start it every day?


+1 Why would you do this? It takes a lot more battery power to start the car than will be replenished in a couple seconds/minutes of running. Ill bet you killed the battery to the point that it didnt want to run right. Put it on a charger as a first step.


immediately when it didnt start I hooked up my dvom and battery was fully charged at 12.6v. Monday it got to run ablut 15 minutes so it wasnt like a minute or two and then shut off. It warmed all the way up .
 
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.


Its a relatively new car with heated o2 sensors it hits closed loop pretty quick. A general rule of thumb is 120 degrees and if it warming all the way up its kicking into closed loop.
its been around -10 - 15degrees here if I let the battery sit for a whole week in the cold it wont start the vehicle thats why I started it. Today was the last day of really cold so I probably wouldn't have started it again while she was gone.
 
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?


I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues. I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.
 
have you tried cleaning the throttle body? It gets gunked up with carbon from oil vapors after engine shut off, so the built in idle control (no valve on cable-less throttle bodys) cant compensate past the ring of gunk on the throttle bore.

Im just sayin its worth looking into.
 
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I didn't check it. Although it could be I figured since its under warranty ill let them I was just wanting to ask because if they cant find the issues I can ask if they checked such things
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.


Why? What kind of benefit do you hope to extract from not getting the oil up to temperature?

A vehicle, if parked with no intention of being driven, should be left alone until it is possible to drive it. You are dumping fuel into the oil, carboning up the piston tops, washing down the cylinder walls....etc. There's no logical reason to be doing this.
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues.


Shouldn't? No. But it isn't good for it either.

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I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
But he didn't say it was good for it either did he?
smirk.gif


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If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.


Except their engines are under load so they at least have some hope of putting some heat into the oil.

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has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.


I recommend trying it on the Saturn and see how many times of doing that it takes until you end up flooding it.

Tip: WOT clears a flood condition on a Ford. Pumping the pedal as indicated in your OP was not a good idea, you continued to flood the engine but eventually got enough air in there that it fired. I'm amazed they didn't teach you that.......

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actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.


If there's enough time for the fuel to flash dry out, sure, it won't cause an issue. The problem is that if you shut off an engine still on cold start enrichment and the cylinders stay damp because it is cold and you do this a few times, and say it has some carbon build up in the cylinders that absorbs some of that fuel.... Eventually you end up with a lot of fuel in those cylinders and the next time it does the cold start sequence to start, it floods.

I've had multiple vehicles that didn't respond well to only letting it warm up for a few minutes, shutting it off, and then restarting it not all that long later. Two enrichment cycles in series, even though the engine ran for a few minutes, meant a partial flood condition and a vehicle that ran like a raging turd. Never happened in the summer, but in the colder months, yup.
 
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