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#3302557 - 03/05/14 06:02 PM ford focus hard start
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
My moms been on vacation so I have been going over to feed her animals and start her car. Did so Monday everything was fine. Went over today started the car and it started for a brief second and shut off. Then just cranked and cranked. I pumped the throttle and after about 6 ten second cranks. (I let it sit a minute between cycles.) It sputtered to life blowing quite a bit of black smoke and then once gathering itself it amoothed out and was fine.
Its a 2010 has 69,000 on it and has never done this. She has an extended warranty so itll be covered most likely. I drove it straight to the dealer so she wouldnt have to mess with it. But now its running fine so the dealer may not find an issue. Anyone have any experience with maybe a similar issue. Or even have an idea what could cause that? It didn't throw a cel. I was hoping it would. I assume it was getting fuel since when it started it blew black smoke.
it drive fine the 15 miles to the dealer though. Go figure.. also I didnt know this but rhe car has a one touch self crank system. So itll crank for an extra 8 seconds or so even after you stop Turning the key in the event that the car doesnt start itll keep trying..., I don't particularly care for that system but such is life.


Edited by ram_man (03/05/14 06:04 PM)
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#3302581 - 03/05/14 06:19 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 2638
Loc: FL, USA
Why do you start it every day?
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#3302588 - 03/05/14 06:28 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
why did you start the car again?


Edited by Rand (03/05/14 06:29 PM)
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#3302607 - 03/05/14 07:02 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 6960
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
To charge the battery?
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#3302609 - 03/05/14 07:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: dave1251]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: dave1251
To charge the battery?


Depending on how long he's letting the car run, it may not be doing the battery any favors.

Driving is good for cars. Sitting at idle for a few minutes is not.
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#3302616 - 03/05/14 07:15 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ohio
About once every 2 weeks I'd start the car and take it for a nice 30 minute highway run.

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#3302617 - 03/05/14 07:17 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Roadkingnc Offline


Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 589
Loc: NC USA
If you start the car multiple times and don't let it warm up it will flood just like you described. I bet they find nothing wrong.

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#3302634 - 03/05/14 07:31 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: gregk24]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33535
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Why do you start it every day?


+1 Why would you do this? It takes a lot more battery power to start the car than will be replenished in a couple seconds/minutes of running. Ill bet you killed the battery to the point that it didnt want to run right. Put it on a charger as a first step.

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#3302637 - 03/05/14 07:34 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
kyxtremetuber Offline


Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Kentucky
Throttle body was probably dirty and stuck for a second is just get some carb cleaner and clean it I bet that's what the dealer does that's what we would do at work
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#3302649 - 03/05/14 07:50 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.
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#3302650 - 03/05/14 07:52 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Why do you start it every day?


+1 Why would you do this? It takes a lot more battery power to start the car than will be replenished in a couple seconds/minutes of running. Ill bet you killed the battery to the point that it didnt want to run right. Put it on a charger as a first step.


immediately when it didnt start I hooked up my dvom and battery was fully charged at 12.6v. Monday it got to run ablut 15 minutes so it wasnt like a minute or two and then shut off. It warmed all the way up .
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#3302654 - 03/05/14 07:55 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.
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#3302669 - 03/05/14 08:02 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.


Its a relatively new car with heated o2 sensors it hits closed loop pretty quick. A general rule of thumb is 120 degrees and if it warming all the way up its kicking into closed loop.
its been around -10 - 15degrees here if I let the battery sit for a whole week in the cold it wont start the vehicle thats why I started it. Today was the last day of really cold so I probably wouldn't have started it again while she was gone.
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#3302670 - 03/05/14 08:02 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Pop_Rivit Offline


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: Midwest
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?

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#3302673 - 03/05/14 08:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
RSmolik Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 6
Loc: IL
Clean the throttle body
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#3302685 - 03/05/14 08:15 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Pop_Rivit]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?


I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues. I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.
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#3302699 - 03/05/14 08:23 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
RSmolik Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 6
Loc: IL
have you tried cleaning the throttle body? It gets gunked up with carbon from oil vapors after engine shut off, so the built in idle control (no valve on cable-less throttle bodys) cant compensate past the ring of gunk on the throttle bore.

Im just sayin its worth looking into.


Edited by RSmolik (03/05/14 08:24 PM)
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#3302705 - 03/05/14 08:28 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
I didn't check it. Although it could be I figured since its under warranty ill let them I was just wanting to ask because if they cant find the issues I can ask if they checked such things
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#3302713 - 03/05/14 08:39 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.


Why? What kind of benefit do you hope to extract from not getting the oil up to temperature?

A vehicle, if parked with no intention of being driven, should be left alone until it is possible to drive it. You are dumping fuel into the oil, carboning up the piston tops, washing down the cylinder walls....etc. There's no logical reason to be doing this.
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#3302720 - 03/05/14 08:47 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues.


Shouldn't? No. But it isn't good for it either.

Quote:
I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
But he didn't say it was good for it either did he? smirk

Quote:
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.


Except their engines are under load so they at least have some hope of putting some heat into the oil.

Quote:
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.


I recommend trying it on the Saturn and see how many times of doing that it takes until you end up flooding it.

Tip: WOT clears a flood condition on a Ford. Pumping the pedal as indicated in your OP was not a good idea, you continued to flood the engine but eventually got enough air in there that it fired. I'm amazed they didn't teach you that.......

Quote:

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.


If there's enough time for the fuel to flash dry out, sure, it won't cause an issue. The problem is that if you shut off an engine still on cold start enrichment and the cylinders stay damp because it is cold and you do this a few times, and say it has some carbon build up in the cylinders that absorbs some of that fuel.... Eventually you end up with a lot of fuel in those cylinders and the next time it does the cold start sequence to start, it floods.

I've had multiple vehicles that didn't respond well to only letting it warm up for a few minutes, shutting it off, and then restarting it not all that long later. Two enrichment cycles in series, even though the engine ran for a few minutes, meant a partial flood condition and a vehicle that ran like a raging turd. Never happened in the summer, but in the colder months, yup.
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#3302721 - 03/05/14 08:48 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I didn't check it. Although it could be I figured since its under warranty ill let them I was just wanting to ask because if they cant find the issues I can ask if they checked such things


There is probably absolutely nothing wrong with the car.
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#3302722 - 03/05/14 08:48 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.


Why? What kind of benefit do you hope to extract from not getting the oil up to temperature?

A vehicle, if parked with no intention of being driven, should be left alone until it is possible to drive it. You are dumping fuel into the oil, carboning up the piston tops, washing down the cylinder walls....etc. There's no logical reason to be doing this.



it did get up to temp. It ran long enough to melt all the ice off of it. There was a good amount. It warmed up more than enough for none of that to be a concern


Edited by ram_man (03/05/14 08:49 PM)
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#3302724 - 03/05/14 08:51 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.


Why? What kind of benefit do you hope to extract from not getting the oil up to temperature?

A vehicle, if parked with no intention of being driven, should be left alone until it is possible to drive it. You are dumping fuel into the oil, carboning up the piston tops, washing down the cylinder walls....etc. There's no logical reason to be doing this.



it did get up to temp. It ran long enough to melt all the ice off of it. There was a good amount. It warmed up more than enough for none of that to be a concern


Did I say coolant? I said OIL UP TO TEMPERATURE. Unless the car has an oil/coolant heat exchanger there isn't a snowball's chance in [censored] that you got the oil up to temperature.

You've put fuel in the oil and pointlessly wasted gasoline for no reason whatsoever. I mean you don't own a scan tool so I know for a fact you didn't verify coolant temperature. You are qualifying the car being warmed up by its ability to melt ice crzy
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#3302728 - 03/05/14 08:55 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
the coolant temp when ford magically makes the gauge stay in the middle isnt the oil temp.

Even driving with a load it takes 15m+ to get the oil upto temp....



Edited by Rand (03/05/14 08:55 PM)
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#3302739 - 03/05/14 09:01 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its been very cold I started it monday and then again today each time let it run a few minutes enought to warm up completely. She asked me to so I do. I dont drive my dodge but I let it run atleast once a week for a little bit. It's never had a problem with it.


Why? What kind of benefit do you hope to extract from not getting the oil up to temperature?

A vehicle, if parked with no intention of being driven, should be left alone until it is possible to drive it. You are dumping fuel into the oil, carboning up the piston tops, washing down the cylinder walls....etc. There's no logical reason to be doing this.



it did get up to temp. It ran long enough to melt all the ice off of it. There was a good amount. It warmed up more than enough for none of that to be a concern


Did I say coolant? I said OIL UP TO TEMPERATURE. Unless the car has an oil/coolant heat exchanger there isn't a snowball's chance in [censored] that you got the oil up to temperature.

You've put fuel in the oil and pointlessly wasted gasoline for no reason whatsoever. I mean you don't own a scan tool so I know for a fact you didn't verify coolant temperature. You are qualifying the car being warmed up by its ability to melt ice crzy


I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt? I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.

the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on. And no I wouldnt do this all the time. But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous. But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.
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#3302757 - 03/05/14 09:14 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 1661
Loc: MTL, CANADA
If you let the battery sit for a week the car wont start? That should indicate a problem shouldnt it??!! I sometimes dont use my car for awhile and it starts fine..and its -20 to -30 during winter here...i dont think you are doing the car a favor...maybe once every 2 weeks run it for 30 mins around town til its hot..but ive never heard of someone starting it every few days..
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#3302759 - 03/05/14 09:17 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt?


Because half the the threads about issues you post on here, you never make any mention of codes being read or the like shrug

Quote:
I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.


Is it a Walmart Equis or something? I'm guessing you aren't getting real time readouts of various temperatures on the vehicle. I have a scanner that I spent a few bucks on (AutoEnginuity) and it does basically everything.

Quote:
the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on.


They weren't on because you had the defrost running, which automatically turns on the fans once it is warm enough to fire the AC compressor?

Quote:
And no I wouldnt do this all the time.


You said you've been doing this for a while. And you said you do it all the time to your RAM.

Quote:
But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous.


So filling your oil with fuel is harmless? Cool. You're the expert obviously. I stand corrected.

Quote:
But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


LOL!!! Dude, you bought a weapon truck that you are now complaining about the gas mileage on, put a fuel pump in it, still couldn't get it working, took it to a shop who replaced the filter put ANOTHER pump in it, and then you replaced the O2 today hoping it fixes your 80's gas mileage problem. You have a Saturn with a mystery misfire.... Do I need to go digging back through your other threads?

You flood your mom's Focus and then pump the pedal, flooding it worse because you didn't know enough to go WOT to do a flood clear start and the car is a POS? And seriously, you drive a Saturn and call the Focus a penalty box? I've had plenty of seat time in both big guy and the Focus is the nicer car. Yeah, there are nicer cars in the segment in terms of interior (Jetta, 3-series) but a 2011 Focus isn't any more "miserable" than anything else that was in its price bracket.

And I know you have a dislike for Ford products, we've been through that your entire tenure on this board. So it comes as no surprise that you'd try to pass the buck on your own lack of knowledge as to the issue being with the vehicle's manufacturer and not resting solely on your shoulders where it belongs. You flooded the car and didn't know how to do a flood clear. Now you do. Live and learn.
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#3302760 - 03/05/14 09:20 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 1661
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?


I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues. I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.


People generally take snow and ice off their cars and warm them up because they plan on going somewhere with them not just for warming the car up for the heck of it. This would result in issues. Like condensation in your oil. Moisture in oil.
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#3302779 - 03/05/14 09:36 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.


Its a relatively new car with heated o2 sensors it hits closed loop pretty quick. A general rule of thumb is 120 degrees and if it warming all the way up its kicking into closed loop.
its been around -10 - 15degrees here if I let the battery sit for a whole week in the cold it wont start the vehicle thats why I started it. Today was the last day of really cold so I probably wouldn't have started it again while she was gone.


Heated O2 sensors are nothing new, my 12 year old truck has them. It hits closed loop by 100*F water temp and pretty quickly when driving as indicated by a Scangauge, which eliminates guessing and rules of thumb. Doesn't mean the engine is running optimally at that point, and it's definitely not warmed all the way up at that point. Cold idling is the worst state for the car's engine to be in and is not the same as driving for the same length of time.

What is the actual water temp you are letting it get to (a number, not how much snow melted off the car)? Oil temp if you can access it? The t-stat probably doesn't open until 197*F. The gauge on the dash is practically meaningless.

If the battery goes dead after a week, the battery is already failing or there is a parasitic drain, and having the engine run in a suboptimal state to save it doesn't make good sense. Better to spend $100 on a new battery. Engines cost a lot more.

Why not just drive the car? You're burning gas anyway and driving is a lot better for it.
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#3302785 - 03/05/14 09:39 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on. And no I wouldnt do this all the time. But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous. But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


Hasn't the latest GM been a non-stop money pit that died promptly after you bought it, and one of the Chryslers doesn't move?
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2002 Ford Ranger XLT
3.0 V6 / 5-Speed Automatic / 2WD
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#3302822 - 03/05/14 10:18 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 677
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
I love the entertainment. might as well be talking to a brick.
always read one's sig line.good night, all.
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#3302830 - 03/05/14 10:27 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt?


Because half the the threads about issues you post on here, you never make any mention of codes being read or the like shrug

Quote:
I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.


Is it a Walmart Equis or something? I'm guessing you aren't getting real time readouts of various temperatures on the vehicle. I have a scanner that I spent a few bucks on (AutoEnginuity) and it does basically everything.

Quote:
the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on.


They weren't on because you had the defrost running, which automatically turns on the fans once it is warm enough to fire the AC compressor?

Quote:
And no I wouldnt do this all the time.


You said you've been doing this for a while. And you said you do it all the time to your RAM.

Quote:
But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous.


So filling your oil with fuel is harmless? Cool. You're the expert obviously. I stand corrected.

Quote:
But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


LOL!!! Dude, you bought a weapon truck that you are now complaining about the gas mileage on, put a fuel pump in it, still couldn't get it working, took it to a shop who replaced the filter put ANOTHER pump in it, and then you replaced the O2 today hoping it fixes your 80's gas mileage problem. You have a Saturn with a mystery misfire.... Do I need to go digging back through your other threads?

You flood your mom's Focus and then pump the pedal, flooding it worse because you didn't know enough to go WOT to do a flood clear start and the car is a POS? And seriously, you drive a Saturn and call the Focus a penalty box? I've had plenty of seat time in both big guy and the Focus is the nicer car. Yeah, there are nicer cars in the segment in terms of interior (Jetta, 3-series) but a 2011 Focus isn't any more "miserable" than anything else that was in its price bracket.

And I know you have a dislike for Ford products, we've been through that your entire tenure on this board. So it comes as no surprise that you'd try to pass the buck on your own lack of knowledge as to the issue being with the vehicle's manufacturer and not resting solely on your shoulders where it belongs. You flooded the car and didn't know how to do a flood clear. Now you do. Live and learn.



I didn't read your whole blurb of [censored] but my scanner does abs trans and engine codes and live data. The reason I haven't posted any codes is because there aren't any.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man

I do have a scan tool why would you think I didnt?


Because half the the threads about issues you post on here, you never make any mention of codes being read or the like shrug

Quote:
I have a few hundred dollar one it does basic things completely different from what i spoke of in another thread such as the modis.


Is it a Walmart Equis or something? I'm guessing you aren't getting real time readouts of various temperatures on the vehicle. I have a scanner that I spent a few bucks on (AutoEnginuity) and it does basically everything.

Quote:
the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on.


They weren't on because you had the defrost running, which automatically turns on the fans once it is warm enough to fire the AC compressor?

Quote:
And no I wouldnt do this all the time.


You said you've been doing this for a while. And you said you do it all the time to your RAM.

Quote:
But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous.


So filling your oil with fuel is harmless? Cool. You're the expert obviously. I stand corrected.

Quote:
But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


LOL!!! Dude, you bought a weapon truck that you are now complaining about the gas mileage on, put a fuel pump in it, still couldn't get it working, took it to a shop who replaced the filter put ANOTHER pump in it, and then you replaced the O2 today hoping it fixes your 80's gas mileage problem. You have a Saturn with a mystery misfire.... Do I need to go digging back through your other threads?

You flood your mom's Focus and then pump the pedal, flooding it worse because you didn't know enough to go WOT to do a flood clear start and the car is a POS? And seriously, you drive a Saturn and call the Focus a penalty box? I've had plenty of seat time in both big guy and the Focus is the nicer car. Yeah, there are nicer cars in the segment in terms of interior (Jetta, 3-series) but a 2011 Focus isn't any more "miserable" than anything else that was in its price bracket.

And I know you have a dislike for Ford products, we've been through that your entire tenure on this board. So it comes as no surprise that you'd try to pass the buck on your own lack of knowledge as to the issue being with the vehicle's manufacturer and not resting solely on your shoulders where it belongs. You flooded the car and didn't know how to do a flood clear. Now you do. Live and learn.


The defrost was turned off after it warmed up and fans kicked back on as needed. Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump and a coil and had a lazy o2 sensor. If you are going to compare a 24 yr old work truck to a 5 yr old focus that has been babied your a fool wouldn't you agree? Her focus has needed more stupid things fixed than my saturn or the truck combined.
The truck is 20 yrs older has a lot more miles and has actually done work. The saturn also older more miles and the slight miss was fixed today. Guess what it was when. The previous owners had the icm replaced the tech didn't clean the grounds. My instructor caught it not me so I won't take credit for it but it's fixed cost me zero dollars and 10 minutes labor.
And to be honest and I'm not being based my saturn is quieter than the focus and smoother. You get alot of engine vibrations through the cabin on that car. And tire and wind noise is ridiculous. As far as interior quality I'll give the focus a slight edge maybe....it squeaks at rattles quite a bit though. Difference is 18,000 car vs 1,700 dollar. The difference it quality is not near far enough apart to justify the cost.

The ram was a daily driver from 95-09 and was a driver for me when needed until I bought the chevy. But yes now it's a garage queen. But it is very capable of driving down the road safety and adequately right now.
I'll be honest my comment about the ford being sensitive was mostly sarcasm figured you were bright enough to pick that up....really I did. But I don't care for most fords. I find them the most tedious to work on and prefer not to. That being said the drive train on the focus is a reliable combo. Just wish it didn't shake so much. Reminds me of my old saturn when it had a broken engine mount.

And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been. Yes clear flood mode stops injector pulse but as soon as you let off the gas to do a normal start it should fire up not flood itself. The car is at fault. I understand you can't fathom the idea of a Ford vehicle having a problem but this one does. And when they find it I'll be sure to let you know what it is just so you can realize your not know it all that you think you are. smile
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#3302839 - 03/05/14 10:32 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Rolla07]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I thought you were going to mechanic's school. Wouldn't a mechanic in training know both the answer and realize that what he was doing likely caused the issue?


I am in school thats why I know that starting a vehicle for 15 minutes or so to warm up shouldn't magically cause any issues. I told the tech the whole scenario he didnt seem to think that starting the vehicle on a regular basis would screw it up.
If that would cause it there would be alot of people who drive 5 miles or less to work having random hard start issues.
has everyone realized yet thats not the case?
I could walk out every day for a month and start my saturn for 1 minute then shut it off and I would bet it would never have a magical hard to start blowing black smoke issue. Yes I realize doing so wouldnt be intelligent but you could do it. Starting a car up twice in one week to warm up and clean the ice and snow off wouldn't cause the issues.

actually my schooling is a great example of this we have junk donated cars that we drive 50 feet from the cage into the school they are used for this constantly and they always run. Sometimes if they sat for a few months the battery would be dead but if we had to move it for the whole week that would be 50 feet every day for 5 days they always ran while doing so. 50 feet takes what lets say 2 minutes tops.


People generally take snow and ice off their cars and warm them up because they plan on going somewhere with them not just for warming the car up for the heck of it. This would result in issues. Like condensation in your oil. Moisture in oil.


I did drive it down the road to get the mail. Which is what I was asked to do. And also I would like my mom to come home from vacation to a clean car I don't want her to have to clean her windows. I am capable and she deserves it. I'm also surprising her with a new set of tires and cleaning the interior. She was a great parent to me and deserves me to do what I can to make her life easier. I think she will be very happy with the new tires to. She was stressing about it because money is tight. So I figured it was the least I could do.
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02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
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#3302844 - 03/05/14 10:36 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
That's not good for either vehicle.

Cold doesn't kill batteries, heat does. Cold drains good batteries because a cold engine is harder to turn over.

Odds are, sitting there idling for a few minutes it's staying in open loop and running rich. That's not good for the engine or cats.


Its a relatively new car with heated o2 sensors it hits closed loop pretty quick. A general rule of thumb is 120 degrees and if it warming all the way up its kicking into closed loop.
its been around -10 - 15degrees here if I let the battery sit for a whole week in the cold it wont start the vehicle thats why I started it. Today was the last day of really cold so I probably wouldn't have started it again while she was gone.


Heated O2 sensors are nothing new, my 12 year old truck has them. It hits closed loop by 100*F water temp and pretty quickly when driving as indicated by a Scangauge, which eliminates guessing and rules of thumb. Doesn't mean the engine is running optimally at that point, and it's definitely not warmed all the way up at that point. Cold idling is the worst state for the car's engine to be in and is not the same as driving for the same length of time.

What is the actual water temp you are letting it get to (a number, not how much snow melted off the car)? Oil temp if you can access it? The t-stat probably doesn't open until 197*F. The gauge on the dash is practically meaningless.

If the battery goes dead after a week, the battery is already failing or there is a parasitic drain, and having the engine run in a suboptimal state to save it doesn't make good sense. Better to spend $100 on a new battery. Engines cost a lot more.

Why not just drive the car? You're burning gas anyway and driving is a lot better for it.


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one
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02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
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#3302846 - 03/05/14 10:39 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man


the car was warm enough to kick cooling fans on. And no I wouldnt do this all the time. But you act like doing it one time will somehow harm something. And thats plain ridiculous. But I own two gm products and two chryslers maybe they arent as sensitive as the poorly built ford....and yes I said poorly built that focus is a miserable car. Its been moslty reliable but it is definitely a penalty box.


Hasn't the latest GM been a non-stop money pit that died promptly after you bought it, and one of the Chryslers doesn't move?


I answered you with a reply I did to overkill. The ram moves fine but as of a month ago isn't a daily driver because it's getting all redone. The chevy is 24 yrs old and needed a fuel pump and a coil and the o2 sensor was lazy.....I don't think you can call a 24 ehhhh actually almost 25 yr old vehicle that needed three things a money pit. It runs good now been driving it 50 miles a day.
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#3302848 - 03/05/14 10:40 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
"Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump"

The rage makes your post somewhat incoherent, but very entertaining.

"And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been."



The old chevyboy is back. popcorn




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154K miles

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#3302852 - 03/05/14 10:43 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one


You attack first, explain later. It started off with just starting the car for a few minutes, now it's a 15 minute warm up and driving it. You change the story so you can never be "wrong."

And of course, people giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to give suggestions get lashed out at because chevyboy is always right!
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#3302854 - 03/05/14 10:49 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man


I didn't read your whole blurb of [censored] but my scanner does abs trans and engine codes and live data. The reason I haven't posted any codes is because there aren't any.


Ahhh, so you just don't know how to use it. Got it.



Quote:
The defrost was turned off after it warmed up and fans kicked back on as needed.


Sure, I believe you wink

Quote:
Also the chevy has needed a 24 yr old vehicle that's needed a fuel pump and a coil and had a lazy o2 sensor. If you are going to compare a 24 yr old work truck to a 5 yr old focus that has been babied your a fool wouldn't you agree?


The Chevy has needed two fuel pumps that you couldn't diagnose correctly apparently (why it had to go to the shop and why you were asking for advice here.... like you do for every vehicle) So if anybody is a fool sir, I think a mirror might be in order. Also it is "you're", as in an abbreviation of "you are". Unless you think I own a fool? However I do believe that kind of nonsense has been illegal in North America for quite some time now wink

Quote:
Her focus has needed more stupid things fixed than my saturn or the truck combined.


I find that surprising given the number of threads you've posted on here about your vehicles. Though I'd find it less so if you are the one doing the troubleshooting grin

Quote:
The truck is 20 yrs older has a lot more miles and has actually done work.


So you now know the entire history of the truck you picked up something like a month ago? Do you own a time machine? If so, can I borrow it?

Quote:
The saturn also older more miles and the slight miss was fixed today. Guess what it was when. The previous owners had the icm replaced the tech didn't clean the grounds. My instructor caught it not me so I won't take credit for it but it's fixed cost me zero dollars and 10 minutes labor.


Don't worry, when it starts burning oil I'm sure the miss will come back grin

Quote:
And to be honest and I'm not being based my saturn is quieter than the focus and smoother.


In your unbiased opinion of course wink

Quote:
You get alot of engine vibrations through the cabin on that car. And tire and wind noise is ridiculous. As far as interior quality I'll give the focus a slight edge maybe....it squeaks at rattles quite a bit though. Difference is 18,000 car vs 1,700 dollar. The difference it quality is not near far enough apart to justify the cost.


They were both new once. As I said, the Focus is on-par with basically anything else in its price bracket. That doesn't mean you have to like it.

Quote:
The ram was a daily driver from 95-09 and was a driver for me when needed until I bought the chevy. But yes now it's a garage queen. But it is very capable of driving down the road safety and adequately right now.


So leave it parked. You aren't doing it any favours just running it and not driving it. I pointed that out earlier but the reasoning behind WHY seems to be lost on you shrug

Quote:
I'll be honest my comment about the ford being sensitive was mostly sarcasm figured you were bright enough to pick that up....really I did.


You aren't good at conveying sarcasm. Or using English. Don't worry, I didn't figure you'd be bright enough to figure that one out on your own so I decided to be blunt.

Quote:
But I don't care for most fords. I find them the most tedious to work on and prefer not to.


That was the case for your previous two aliases on here too. Unless you want to pretend we didn't have these back-and-forths in the past.

Quote:
That being said the drive train on the focus is a reliable combo. Just wish it didn't shake so much. Reminds me of my old saturn when it had a broken engine mount.

And I did do clear flood mode but when cranking the car it was obviously providing more fuel than it should been. Yes clear flood mode stops injector pulse but as soon as you let off the gas to do a normal start it should fire up not flood itself. The car is at fault. I understand you can't fathom the idea of a Ford vehicle having a problem but this one does. And when they find it I'll be sure to let you know what it is just so you can realize your not know it all that you think you are. smile


If you did clear flood, it would have started once the flood cleared. You keep your foot to the floor until it starts. That's how you perform it. So you did NOT perform "clear flood". And that also contradicts your opening post where you said you pumped it.

I've dealt with many problems with Ford vehicles, the brand is not infallible, just like any other. They all have issues and quirks. I've experienced the one you just did first hand on the Expedition (and other non-Ford vehicles as well) due to the reasons myself and others have outlined in this thread.

Your technique needs some work BTW. Making an inflammatory remark then trying to pin it on me as "fanboyism" because you are unwilling to admit to your own incompetence is quite transparent here. Instead of acknowledging that the process you followed was flawed and owning up to that you instead choose to make disparaging remarks about the vehicle/manufacturer because you of course can do no wrong and then you change and manipulate what transpired as the thread progresses until it in no way resembles what you posted originally.
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#3302858 - 03/05/14 10:59 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man


After it warmed up I did drive it a short distance 3 miles round trip. That was on Monday then today it did what it did. That's what I'm saying I know given the situation starting it up for 15 minutes or so then going down the road is more than enough and it wasn't flooded when it shut off. Honestly I try to explain these types of things but I have to be on the defensive around here or get personally attacked. I'm not perfect.....but I don't understand why people need to assume and attack so quickly.....Owell it's internet real life. In real life people have a lot more respect for me. Go figure that one


You attack first, explain later. It started off with just starting the car for a few minutes, now it's a 15 minute warm up and driving it. You change the story so you can never be "wrong."

And of course, people giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to give suggestions get lashed out at because chevyboy is always right!


Hey, at least we have no jaw-jacking threats yet! But the night is still young grin

He's already resorted to profanity so I'm sure we aren't too far off.
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#3302861 - 03/05/14 11:03 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
And this is only page two!
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154K miles

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#3302864 - 03/05/14 11:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Have a great night guys..I'm not going to explain my self at every turn
I apologize I wasn't straight forward with the initial info given that is my fault I'm using my phone and hate typing long lengthy things on it. No excuse I should have given the full details. I was only wanting things i should mention to the dealer if need be or maybe a common issue for focuses.
I hope you all have a good night and hopefully tomorrow the dealer will have the info on the issue and I will report back. Take care everyone
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#3302872 - 03/05/14 11:23 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
bvance554 Offline


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 860
Loc: VA
Well that was entertaining. It got me to thinking about my boat that has been sitting in the driveway all winter. Through this long cold winter. I think I should go start it up for a few minutes. Why? Because it was cold.


Edited by bvance554 (03/05/14 11:24 PM)

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#3303644 - 03/06/14 06:19 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
So what did the dealer find?
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154K miles

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#3303653 - 03/06/14 06:26 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
So what did the dealer find?


Operator error, but what will they tell Ram_boy?

That's the question.
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#3303654 - 03/06/14 06:27 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: bvance554]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Well that was entertaining.


Yeah, makes me thankful OVERKILL doesn't do my posts like that. laugh

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#3303670 - 03/06/14 06:36 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: satinsilver]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Well that was entertaining.


Yeah, makes me thankful OVERKILL doesn't do my posts like that. laugh


I did say I would update you all when they find the issue. They got to it at 3 pm today and called me a few minutes ago right before they closed. And said the warranty would cover it all like in thought and they had to push it in to the shop because today it wouldn't start for them at all.
It definitely has an issue and seems to be cold related.
But since I only drove it 15 miles to the dealer it could have not been warmed up and could have flooded itself. hornets
Lol. We shall wait and see.


Edited by ram_man (03/06/14 06:37 PM)
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#3303681 - 03/06/14 06:45 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
How do they know the warranty will cover it all if they haven't diagnosed anything yet? And the car has been there since yesterday, but they didn't touch it until late this afternoon?
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#3303707 - 03/06/14 07:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
silverrat Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: Ontario
Man what's with all the cryptic posts? It's "an issue" "that seems" cold related? Did they tell you what's wrong?
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#3303846 - 03/06/14 09:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
They weren't expecting to get to it till Friday.
And it's an extended warranty so they had to look up the info on what all it covered.
The place she bought the car closed down and the paper work was in the little sip up owners manual cover with the manual that ford gives you and someone stole it thinking it was a cd case or something.
I gave you guys all the info they had. I don't understand why every little thing I say has to be put into question.....kind of ridiculous. That's what they said they will know more tomorrow. And then I'll update you guys.
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#3303919 - 03/06/14 10:04 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Well that was entertaining.


Yeah, makes me thankful OVERKILL doesn't do my posts like that. laugh


I did say I would update you all when they find the issue. They got to it at 3 pm today and called me a few minutes ago right before they closed. And said the warranty would cover it all like in thought and they had to push it in to the shop because today it wouldn't start for them at all.
It definitely has an issue and seems to be cold related.
But since I only drove it 15 miles to the dealer it could have not been warmed up and could have flooded itself. hornets
Lol. We shall wait and see.


In the spirit of the thread, you could be making it up, LOL! grin

Seriously though, it could also be something as stupid as water in the tank. "Warranty will cover it", as ranger noted, is a rather bold statement considering they have no idea what the "issue" is yet. Would they cover draining the tank and replacing the fuel filter if somebody peed in your mom's gas tank? shrug
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#3303923 - 03/06/14 10:05 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33535
Loc: New Jersey
If it is cold related why would they push it into the shop, when they could leave it out overnight to have a good cold soak???

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#3303924 - 03/06/14 10:06 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If it is cold related why would they push it into the shop, when they could leave it out overnight to have a good cold soak???


Easy now, don't be trying to inject logic into this thread! That's happened already a few times and the results weren't pleasant grin
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#3303925 - 03/06/14 10:07 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33535
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Would they cover draining the tank and replacing the fuel filter if somebody peed in your mom's gas tank? shrug


Wasnt someone on here interested in peeing in gas tanks and onto the cowl intakes of cars?

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#3303931 - 03/06/14 10:11 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Would they cover draining the tank and replacing the fuel filter if somebody peed in your mom's gas tank? shrug


Wasnt someone on here interested in peeing in gas tanks and onto the cowl intakes of cars?




grin
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#3304146 - 03/07/14 07:17 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33535
Loc: New Jersey
Come on, ram_man, I know you're at least one time zone different! but the suspense is killing me, and I want to know what the issue is! Are you going to hang at the dealer to see how they go after the issue?

I'm serious, that could turn into a job lead for you!

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#3304161 - 03/07/14 07:30 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If it is cold related why would they push it into the shop, when they could leave it out overnight to have a good cold soak???

The pushed it back out at closing time I believe. Hoping to start fresh today.
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#3304169 - 03/07/14 07:36 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Come on, ram_man, I know you're at least one time zone different! but the suspense is killing me, and I want to know what the issue is! Are you going to hang at the dealer to see how they go after the issue?

I'm serious, that could turn into a job lead for you!


I have no desire to work at a Ford dealership. If I had to deal with ford every day I would probably be a heavy drinker. And I'm giving them their space so they can do their job.
They should have an answer today when I know I will tell you.
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#3304304 - 03/07/14 09:48 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Oldmoparguy1 Offline


Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 4002
Loc: Charlotte, NC
ram_man, I for the life of me don't understand why you continue to post here, considering the abuse you get from the self proclaimed hotshots, the baloney from the know nothing wannabe hotshots and the general mis-information from most everyone, it just seems to me to be not worth the aggravation. You have my sympathy.
Good luck,

Wayne
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#3304432 - 03/07/14 12:29 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Oldmoparguy1]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
ram_man, I for the life of me don't understand why you continue to post here, considering the abuse you get from the self proclaimed hotshots, the baloney from the know nothing wannabe hotshots and the general mis-information from most everyone, it just seems to me to be not worth the aggravation. You have my sympathy.

Wayne




I honestly have no idea why I come back.
I guess because the board is big so responses are quick. But I get treated so poorly I'm not sure if it's worth it.
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02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
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#3304439 - 03/07/14 12:38 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Everyone the problem was found. It was a bad temp sensor. And they are replacing motor mounts since the car has a vibration has had it for atleast 30,000 miles. They guys said the focus mounts are junk.
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#3304463 - 03/07/14 12:57 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Everyone the problem was found. It was a bad temp sensor. And they are replacing motor mounts since the car has a vibration has had it for atleast 30,000 miles. They guys said the focus mounts are junk.


yes, the motor mounts on them are a known problem point. On the older ones (not sure if that's the case with a 2011) the passenger-side mount was a fluid filled type that the fluid would eventually degrade or disappear in, which greatly reduced its functionality and led to the driver feeling a great deal of vibration. They are relatively cheap and easy to replace though, as I did the one on our 2000.

So the ECT had gone south? Your scanner should have picked that up wink

Good to hear it is fixed though.
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#3304472 - 03/07/14 01:09 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: kyxtremetuber]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9776
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: kyxtremetuber
Throttle body was probably dirty and stuck for a second is just get some carb cleaner and clean it I bet that's what the dealer does that's what we would do at work


+1. I have had that same problem on my 2007. About every 1 1/2 years I pull the air intake off and use throtle plate cleaner to clean the are around the throtle plate. All engines should have this done. It's caused from oil fumes collecting in the upper parts of the engine.
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#3304510 - 03/07/14 01:45 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Everyone the problem was found. It was a bad temp sensor. And they are replacing motor mounts since the car has a vibration has had it for atleast 30,000 miles. They guys said the focus mounts are junk.


yes, the motor mounts on them are a known problem point. On the older ones (not sure if that's the case with a 2011) the passenger-side mount was a fluid filled type that the fluid would eventually degrade or disappear in, which greatly reduced its functionality and led to the driver feeling a great deal of vibration. They are relatively cheap and easy to replace though, as I did the one on our 2000.

So the ECT had gone south? Your scanner should have picked that up wink

Good to hear it is fixed though.



There scanner didn't pick it up either it never threw a code or had freeze frame data stored. He didn't say how he found it though.
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#3304522 - 03/07/14 01:52 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Everyone the problem was found. It was a bad temp sensor. And they are replacing motor mounts since the car has a vibration has had it for atleast 30,000 miles. They guys said the focus mounts are junk.


yes, the motor mounts on them are a known problem point. On the older ones (not sure if that's the case with a 2011) the passenger-side mount was a fluid filled type that the fluid would eventually degrade or disappear in, which greatly reduced its functionality and led to the driver feeling a great deal of vibration. They are relatively cheap and easy to replace though, as I did the one on our 2000.

So the ECT had gone south? Your scanner should have picked that up wink

Good to hear it is fixed though.



There scanner didn't pick it up either it never threw a code or had freeze frame data stored. He didn't say how he found it though.


When it was exhibiting the problem, it would show up under live data as out to lunch. It may not set a code, but the values being read would be obviously wrong.

So for example, if I had all of the relevant parameters on the screen like bat voltage, ACT, ECT, TPS...etc and the car was acting up, the ECT probably would have shown like -40C or something. If it was out of range it should have thrown a code, so we have to assume that it wasn't out of range, just way off.
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#3304523 - 03/07/14 01:52 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
andrewg Offline


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 2746
Loc: Covington, Wa.
Probably nothing wrong with the Focus. Only start the car about once a week or less....then DRIVE it about 30 minutes or more. Sounds like you just dumped way too much fuel into the engine. Why would you PUMP the throttle? Never good to do that with fuel injection.....at least from what limited knowledge I have. I know that I have started cars when cold just to move them for the purpose of parking them in a spot to wash them......then I shut it down. When I start the vehicle again after washing it, it nearly always runs rough or sputters a bit from such a short run cycle. I always take it out for a spin to make sure things are COMPLETELY warmed up before putting the car away.
I think it's obvious that what you are doing IS the cause for the hard starting.


Edited by andrewg (03/07/14 01:53 PM)
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#3304568 - 03/07/14 02:38 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: andrewg]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33535
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Probably nothing wrong with the Focus. Only start the car about once a week or less....then DRIVE it about 30 minutes or more. Sounds like you just dumped way too much fuel into the engine. Why would you PUMP the throttle? Never good to do that with fuel injection.....at least from what limited knowledge I have. I know that I have started cars when cold just to move them for the purpose of parking them in a spot to wash them......then I shut it down. When I start the vehicle again after washing it, it nearly always runs rough or sputters a bit from such a short run cycle. I always take it out for a spin to make sure things are COMPLETELY warmed up before putting the car away.
I think it's obvious that what you are doing IS the cause for the hard starting.


Sounds obvious that you didnt read the thread wink

An issue was found.

Mr_man wasnt doing any favors by starting and running like that, but there was at least one faulty item. Why it only showed up then is interesting. Perhaps Mrs. _man (the mother) just ignored it?

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#3304579 - 03/07/14 02:48 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4253
Loc: Toronto, Canada
So what I get from this is that the faulty sensor was causing a very low temp reading and that caused the ECU to add too much fuel essentially flooding the engine. Does this sound correct?
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#3304584 - 03/07/14 02:53 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
andrewg Offline


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 2746
Loc: Covington, Wa.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Probably nothing wrong with the Focus. Only start the car about once a week or less....then DRIVE it about 30 minutes or more. Sounds like you just dumped way too much fuel into the engine. Why would you PUMP the throttle? Never good to do that with fuel injection.....at least from what limited knowledge I have. I know that I have started cars when cold just to move them for the purpose of parking them in a spot to wash them......then I shut it down. When I start the vehicle again after washing it, it nearly always runs rough or sputters a bit from such a short run cycle. I always take it out for a spin to make sure things are COMPLETELY warmed up before putting the car away.
I think it's obvious that what you are doing IS the cause for the hard starting.


Sounds obvious that you didnt read the thread wink

An issue was found.

Mr_man wasnt doing any favors by starting and running like that, but there was at least one faulty item. Why it only showed up then is interesting. Perhaps Mrs. _man (the mother) just ignored it?

You are correct! I got bored before I finished the second page and blurted out a response. Oh well....life goes on.
_________________________
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2009 Ford Focus

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#3304592 - 03/07/14 02:59 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: KrisZ]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So what I get from this is that the faulty sensor was causing a very low temp reading and that caused the ECU to add too much fuel essentially flooding the engine. Does this sound correct?


That's what I'm taking away from it.
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#3304605 - 03/07/14 03:14 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Everyone the problem was found. It was a bad temp sensor. And they are replacing motor mounts since the car has a vibration has had it for atleast 30,000 miles. They guys said the focus mounts are junk.


yes, the motor mounts on them are a known problem point. On the older ones (not sure if that's the case with a 2011) the passenger-side mount was a fluid filled type that the fluid would eventually degrade or disappear in, which greatly reduced its functionality and led to the driver feeling a great deal of vibration. They are relatively cheap and easy to replace though, as I did the one on our 2000.

So the ECT had gone south? Your scanner should have picked that up wink

Good to hear it is fixed though.



There scanner didn't pick it up either it never threw a code or had freeze frame data stored. He didn't say how he found it though.


When it was exhibiting the problem, it would show up under live data as out to lunch. It may not set a code, but the values being read would be obviously wrong.

So for example, if I had all of the relevant parameters on the screen like bat voltage, ACT, ECT, TPS...etc and the car was acting up, the ECT probably would have shown like -40C or something. If it was out of range it should have thrown a code, so we have to assume that it wasn't out of range, just way off.

It probably would have but I didn't have the scanner hooked up when it happened I did hook it up on the drive to the dealer and it was all good of course. Least it was a simple issue.
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#3304648 - 03/07/14 04:00 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Gee that's funny since 2011 duratech focii dont have a ECT.

Post up a copy of the work order so I can laugh at the ford dealer.


Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


In the spirit of the thread, you could be making it up, LOL! grin

Seriously though, it could also be something as stupid as water in the tank. "Warranty will cover it", as ranger noted, is a rather bold statement considering they have no idea what the "issue" is yet. Would they cover draining the tank and replacing the fuel filter if somebody peed in your mom's gas tank? shrug


Edited by Rand (03/07/14 04:11 PM)
Edit Reason: removed troll attack on chevyboy.
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#3304668 - 03/07/14 04:18 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Rand]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Rand
Gee that's funny since 2011 duratech focii dont have a ECT.

Post up a copy of the work order so I can laugh at the ford dealer.


Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


In the spirit of the thread, you could be making it up, LOL! grin

Seriously though, it could also be something as stupid as water in the tank. "Warranty will cover it", as ranger noted, is a rather bold statement considering they have no idea what the "issue" is yet. Would they cover draining the tank and replacing the fuel filter if somebody peed in your mom's gas tank? shrug


its a 2010 focus and it most certainly does have a temp sensor. Check your facts.
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#3304814 - 03/07/14 07:16 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
please post the work order
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#3304824 - 03/07/14 07:29 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Why? Ill have it tomorrow but why? Why cant you believe what I said and rest easy? Feel like i am on trial on here.
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#3304887 - 03/07/14 08:44 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8051
Loc: NorthEast
Why would 2011 Focus won't have ECT? Or is it integrated into thermostat? Knowing Ford and how they decided to make the air cleaner as lifetime component, they may have indeed removed the ECT but I would be still surprised.


Edited by Vikas (03/07/14 08:46 PM)

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#3304896 - 03/07/14 08:48 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: JHZR2]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Mr_man wasnt doing any favors by starting and running like that, but there was at least one faulty item. Why it only showed up then is interesting. Perhaps Mrs. _man (the mother) just ignored it?


My guess is the interesting "care" regimen uncovered an issue that probably wasn't significant enough to be noticed otherwise, at least by an uncaring operator (Mrs._man). The combination of short runs, pumping the gas, and the out of range temp sensor caused a flood condition that otherwise would not have shown up.

Lots of people run around with temp sensors out of range enough to throw a code for thousands of miles...I have seen them. Usually the car will still start, run, and drive okay and the issue may not even be noticeable from a drivability standpoint, at least for the majority who don't give a flip. This was the right combination of issue and operation to cause a no-start.

OP would be wise to get the battery tested for free at a parts store to see if there is also an issue there. It shouldn't go dead sitting for a week.

Good thing they took care of the motor mounts...Foci are notorious for those. Every time a Focus would come in the shop I worked at with a complaint of "why my cah be runnin' bad?," it was the motor mount at the front and/or torque strut at the rear. Both go out with alarming frequency...one going out probably wrecks the other one pretty quick.
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2002 Ford Ranger XLT
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#3304901 - 03/07/14 08:52 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Mr_man wasnt doing any favors by starting and running like that, but there was at least one faulty item. Why it only showed up then is interesting. Perhaps Mrs. _man (the mother) just ignored it?


My guess is the interesting "care" regimen uncovered an issue that probably wasn't significant enough to be noticed otherwise, at least by an uncaring operator (Mrs._man). The combination of short runs, pumping the gas, and the out of range temp sensor caused a flood condition that otherwise would not have shown up.

Lots of people run around with temp sensors out of range enough to throw a code for thousands of miles...I have seen them. Usually the car will still start, run, and drive okay and the issue may not even be noticeable from a drivability standpoint, at least for the majority who don't give a flip. This was the right combination of issue and operation to cause a no-start.

OP would be wise to get the battery tested for free at a parts store to see if there is also an issue there. It shouldn't go dead sitting for a week.

Good thing they took care of the motor mounts...Foci are notorious for those. Every time a Focus would come in the shop I worked at with a complaint of "why my cah be runnin' bad?," it was the motor mount at the front and/or torque strut at the rear. Both go out with alarming frequency...one going out probably wrecks the other one pretty quick.


any recommendations on the junk mounts? Any replacement parts that last longer? Its the top right one this time
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02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
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#3304921 - 03/07/14 09:08 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
I should have said top instead of front...that's the hydraulic one. Some are sold as an "insert," others as complete units.

The only suggestion I have is to replace both that one and the torque strut at the rear/bottom at the same time. When one is worn out, it beats the other one up and wears it out quickly too.

I don't know what, if any brands last the longest. The OEM ones weren't very good to begin with, so I don't think there's a real advantage to sticking with OEM. We just used Anchor or whatever the parts store had and didn't have any comebacks from them. I don't think any of them will be a permanent fix though...it's probably an every 5 year or so thing for many of these cars.
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#3304971 - 03/07/14 10:14 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I should have said top instead of front...that's the hydraulic one. Some are sold as an "insert," others as complete units.

The only suggestion I have is to replace both that one and the torque strut at the rear/bottom at the same time. When one is worn out, it beats the other one up and wears it out quickly too.

I don't know what, if any brands last the longest. The OEM ones weren't very good to begin with, so I don't think there's a real advantage to sticking with OEM. We just used Anchor or whatever the parts store had and didn't have any comebacks from them. I don't think any of them will be a permanent fix though...it's probably an every 5 year or so thing for many of these cars.


thats sad though seems like several fwd cars are like that. My saturn doesn't have strong mounts either. But atleast theyre cheap! Focus was 120 for the part.
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#3304980 - 03/07/14 10:22 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Aftermarket is way cheaper than that, but I am not surprised that OEM would be that much for the whole top mount assembly. Good thing the warranty ate the cost.

FWD vehicles do seem to be much harder on mounts than RWD. I don't know the exact science/mechanics behind that, but I guess there are just more rotational forces when a FWD takes off from a dead stop. My truck has all original mounts, as did my old Explorer, and my other RWD pickup.
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#3304986 - 03/07/14 10:26 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
The mount at a part store was 120 itll only cost us 100 to have it done because the warranty has a 100 deductible. It has a disappearing deductible but only at the original dealer she bought it from. Theyre conveniently out of business.
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#3304996 - 03/07/14 10:33 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Actually Ram_boy,

I said it didnt have an ECT sensor smile

Please check your facts.

Since your current scanner is too hard to use (you never post anything about using it)

you should consider getting a new one

perhaps this very simple scanner for 15.50$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...5705&cm_sp=

would have found your problem nearly instantly.



Edited by Rand (03/07/14 10:37 PM)
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#3305004 - 03/07/14 10:48 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
The mount at a part store was 120 itll only cost us 100 to have it done because the warranty has a 100 deductible. It has a disappearing deductible but only at the original dealer she bought it from. Theyre conveniently out of business.


Hot [censored], that does look to be retail price for an Anchor mount from a brick & mortar parts store (AAP or AZ). I can't remember what we paid at the shop on our account, but it wasn't $120, I would ballpark our cost at $60-$70, but I can't remember for sure. Napa has it at $90 retail for a Balkamp.

Rock Auto has the same Anchor mount, same part # (3103) for $12.37. No mention of it being a closeout or anything.

That makes no sense.
_________________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT
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154K miles

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#3305017 - 03/07/14 11:06 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Rand]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Rand
Actually Ram_boy,

I said it didnt have an ECT sensor smile

Please check your facts.

Since your current scanner is too hard to use (you never post anything about using it)

you should consider getting a new one

perhaps this very simple scanner for 15.50$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...5705&cm_sp=

would have found your problem nearly instantly.



I honestly believe you just post bull to [censored] people off. So I will not be responding further to your b.s.
_________________________
02 Saturn sl 131,000 miles
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#3305019 - 03/07/14 11:07 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man
The mount at a part store was 120 itll only cost us 100 to have it done because the warranty has a 100 deductible. It has a disappearing deductible but only at the original dealer she bought it from. Theyre conveniently out of business.


Hot [censored], that does look to be retail price for an Anchor mount from a brick & mortar parts store (AAP or AZ). I can't remember what we paid at the shop on our account, but it wasn't $120, I would ballpark our cost at $60-$70, but I can't remember for sure. Napa has it at $90 retail for a Balkamp.

Rock Auto has the same Anchor mount, same part # (3103) for $12.37. No mention of it being a closeout or anything.

That makes no sense.


I know the ford dealer quoted me a price of 129 and the parts store said 120 . couldn't believe the prices were almost the same. I had to make sure I didnt dial the dealer by mistake . Lol
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#3305028 - 03/07/14 11:29 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
This is definitely a weird one...a $100+ price difference on a fairy inexpensive part is very unusual. Generally in parts, anything will have at least 3 prices...cost, retail, list. Cost is what businesses will pay other businesses for a part, retail is what a walk-in individual (ie BITOGers) will pay for a part, and list is what someone going to a shop for a repair will pay for the part. There are actually four prices when you consider what manufacturers charge the sellers/retail outlets for the part, but that price doesn't really enter the equation except when you are cutting deals to an important commercial customer (don't want to go lower than that). Also, commercial customers will pay varying prices depending on how important they are to the seller. This particular part # is all over the place in price. My best guess is brick & mortar places have figured out it's a fast moving part # and jacked the price up accordingly to get the people who need it today and won't shop around much, but still, that's a [censored] of a markup. Google Marketplace is all over for Anchor part # 3103 too.
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#3305379 - 03/08/14 12:37 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
They dont have an ECT, Because they use a CHT sensor
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#3305521 - 03/08/14 04:19 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Its funny how if look up the part it is simply called a coolant Temp sensor. Funnier yet is I never called it an ect. And even Funnier yet is your desire to split hairs just to cause an argument. Do you enjoy drama? I am confused by your devotion to Derail and cause disagreements on the board.
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#3305618 - 03/08/14 06:22 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its funny how if look up the part it is simply called a coolant Temp sensor.



CHT is cylinder head temp sensor.

Not coolant temp sensor.
It measures the temp of the cylinder head.

educate yourself here

Also if you did have a BAD CHT sensor there would be other effects than just flooding that only happens when you start it and shut it off.
(which is normal)

still waiting on that work order post it up so I'm wrong smile

You constantly serve up/change the story to make yourself right. you need look no farther than this thread.

PS: Still doubt you own a scanner, because this problem would be extremely apparent if you had one and used it.


Edited by Rand (03/08/14 06:33 PM)
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#3305727 - 03/08/14 08:41 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: Rand]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Its funny how if look up the part it is simply called a coolant Temp sensor.



CHT is cylinder head temp sensor.

Not coolant temp sensor.
It measures the temp of the cylinder head.

educate yourself here

Also if you did have a BAD CHT sensor there would be other effects than just flooding that only happens when you start it and shut it off.
(which is normal)

still waiting on that work order post it up so I'm wrong smile

You constantly serve up/change the story to make yourself right. you need look no farther than this thread.

PS: Still doubt you own a scanner, because this problem would be extremely apparent if you had one and used it.


I dont have to prove anything to you. I do have a scanner but it was an odd intermittent failure...the dealer thougnt it was odd to. I own an actron scanner it does a decent job.
Also Rand to be quite frank. I was right that there was an issue. I didn't know what it was I didnt try to diagnose it either. Its fixed thats all that matters.

You strike me as one of those [censored] hole people who always have to point out everyone else flaws without realizing your own. Whats more sad is it appears you have an in with a moderator because you get a way with treating people like [censored] constantly and trolling very often yet no body seems to send you on vacation. Maybe they arent seeing you behavior or they don't care. But the way you have treated me is ridiculous and I think you should be ashamed, however I am sure you are not...
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#3305776 - 03/08/14 09:34 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
michaelluscher Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1178
Loc: NYC
You're starting to feel like Technologs/GHT/Chevyman

I'm not going to even bother giving you any of my sometimes helpful advice.
You've been here about 1/2 the time I've been, yet have nearly double the posts, that should say it all right there

/abandoningthread

The fact that people beat me to a meme or image macro that's appropriate shows what we feel about you and your contribution to the forum.
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#3305804 - 03/08/14 10:09 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: michaelluscher]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
You're starting to feel like Technologs/GHT/Chevyman

I'm not going to even bother giving you any of my sometimes helpful advice.
You've been here about 1/2 the time I've been, yet have nearly double the posts, that should say it all right there

/abandoningthread

The fact that people beat me to a meme or image macro that's appropriate shows what we feel about you and your contribution to the forum.



why comment to just run your mouth? Please explain that thought process to me! Its amazing how rude some of you are on here. I never have even spoken to you yet you feel so intrigued to treat me like [censored]. Why?
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#3305870 - 03/09/14 12:43 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ram_man
The mount at a part store was 120 itll only cost us 100 to have it done because the warranty has a 100 deductible. It has a disappearing deductible but only at the original dealer she bought it from. Theyre conveniently out of business.


Hot [censored], that does look to be retail price for an Anchor mount from a brick & mortar parts store (AAP or AZ). I can't remember what we paid at the shop on our account, but it wasn't $120, I would ballpark our cost at $60-$70, but I can't remember for sure. Napa has it at $90 retail for a Balkamp.

Rock Auto has the same Anchor mount, same part # (3103) for $12.37. No mention of it being a closeout or anything.

That makes no sense.


IIRC, I paid something like $78.00 for OEM FWIW.
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#3306012 - 03/09/14 10:10 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Yea, that's still expensive I'm not sure why it's so expensive. The sad part is the old one looks decent still but the new one made a world of difference. Usually a bad mount looks obvious but in this case that's not the case.
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#3312381 - 03/15/14 12:26 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: ram_man


I dont have to prove anything to you.



So, Translation Still no invoice smile

My whole take on this saga:
you had a bad dream about your saturn ECT going bad.

Then had this 13.2w light bulb(incandescent) go on over your head .. Hey I can invent a ECT problem on the focus so I'm magically "right" again.

I'm done with this thread. Feel free to post that invoice anytime and I'll admit I was 100% wrong about you.


Edited by Rand (03/15/14 12:27 AM)
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#3312569 - 03/15/14 09:33 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Rand you waited a week and then come back to start [censored] again. You are a little child.You are sosorry excuse of a person. Inhave the invoice in her glove box but i dont feel inclined or obligated to show your stupid [censored]. We all know that if I posted it up you would just say its a fake blah blah blah. Especially since I could make one at school and you wouldn't know. It would be easy to make a fake and you know that which is why you bash me more if I did that. I have zero to prove to you so I am not concerned with showing you or "proving you wrong"
believe it or not sweet cheeks I don't wake up and wonder if the all mighty rand will give me his approval today. If I wanted a strange mans approval I could go on a million different dating websites and find a desperate man that could give his undying approval. But instead I come on an oil forum and there is creepy guy who stalks my posts and expects me to want his approval because I should prove something to him. Its flattering really but I think you need to grow up just a little. You just look like a desperate little boy who likes to cause uneeded amounts of drama. My guess is the drama tickles your fancy......I wouldn't be surprised!!
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#3312607 - 03/15/14 10:23 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
I suspect a fake invoice from your school would end up being painfully obvious in some way.

But I don't care.

Rand certainly hit the right button today. crackmeup
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#3312618 - 03/15/14 10:40 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
It wouldn't be obvious at all but that's not the point I shouldn't have to prove myself all the time. I just called it how i see it and that's how I see it.
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#3312654 - 03/15/14 11:33 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
LOL, dude, a fake warranty invoice from your school made by you would be glaringly obvious. No offense, but I can assure you many on this board would be able to spot it right away.
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#3312691 - 03/15/14 12:09 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: 01rangerxl]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
LOL, dude, a fake warranty invoice from your school made by you would be glaringly obvious. No offense, but I can assure you many on this board would be able to spot it right away.


You realize I could take the Original invoice copy it onto computer and edit it thus adding in whatever I wanted in the same font they used and it would look 100% real. If you don't understand that then you are a bigger fool than you act on here . I'm not going to prove anything to anyone because I don't need to.
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#3312707 - 03/15/14 12:29 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Didn't you say in another thread that you don't know how to use a laptop or something to that effect? What program would you use? Do tell!

Not convinced you can edit a scanned document well enough that it wouldn't look like an edited scanned document.

Not convinced part numbers would be totally correct form either (IE, not what's on Rock Auto).

Not convinced description of problem would make any kind of sense.

But since it's so easy, prove me wrong! I think a convincing fake that would fool anyone other than yourself might be more time consuming to create than you think. But like I said, I don't care. Just pointing out how ridiculous that claim sounded to me.

When you make claims that come across as kind of unbelievable, expect people to question them. wink
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#3312768 - 03/15/14 02:01 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
I use a tablet to get on here and own a laptop. So your info is false. Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new part number I have because they did replace it.....you act like it would be so difficult. The people on here are a special kind of stupid.
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#3312807 - 03/15/14 02:38 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7386
Loc: Akron,Ohio
You use a tablet makes you wonder when you could take a photo of the invoice in 3 seconds and post it to shut me up, obviously its not that easy since you don't have one.
As far as you making a convincing fake that would be the day.

please don't jack my jaw
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#3312857 - 03/15/14 03:35 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7181
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new


crackmeup crackmeup crackmeup

You have obviously never scanned and edited the text on a document in your life. I have done this for legitimate reasons many times, IE filling in forms and paperwork. You can tell what's the original scan and what's not pretty [censored] easily. Your description of "copy it on to computer...look 100% real" sounds like your knowledge of this is something you got from a movie. My compruter machine skillz aren't even good and I can tell you are full of it.

It's plainly obvious when a scanned document has had text added/modified unless someone modifies it in an image editing program to look like it's all part of the original scan. Using image editing software that would produce something convincing takes a lot of skill and practice that I doubt you have. Nor do I think you would pay for the programs capable of making something convincing, and I doubt your auto tech class provides a student license to use these types of programs for free.

Again, what programs would you use? Simple question if you know how to do this.

Based on what you have posted, it will be readily apparent right away if any invoices you do end up posting are real or not. But please, show us them mad compruter skillz...I really want to see them!

This is too much ridiculousness, but [censored] it is entertaining. crackmeup crackmeup crackmeup

FWIW, if you want everyone to take you seriously, the ridiculousness won't help with that.
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#3313193 - 03/15/14 10:20 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
hypervish Offline


Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 1472
Loc: new jersey
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I use a tablet to get on here and own a laptop. So your info is false. Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new part number I have because they did replace it.....you act like it would be so difficult. The people on here are a special kind of stupid.


I thought you used a phone to get on BITOG... not a tablet or laptop

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Have a great night guys..I'm not going to explain my self at every turn
I apologize I wasn't straight forward with the initial info given that is my fault I'm using my phone and hate typing long lengthy things on it. No excuse I should have given the full details. I was only wanting things i should mention to the dealer if need be or maybe a common issue for focuses.
I hope you all have a good night and hopefully tomorrow the dealer will have the info on the issue and I will report back. Take care everyone
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#3313588 - 03/16/14 11:52 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: hypervish]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I use a tablet to get on here and own a laptop. So your info is false. Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new part number I have because they did replace it.....you act like it would be so difficult. The people on here are a special kind of stupid.


I thought you used a phone to get on BITOG... not a tablet or laptop

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Have a great night guys..I'm not going to explain my self at every turn
I apologize I wasn't straight forward with the initial info given that is my fault I'm using my phone and hate typing long lengthy things on it. No excuse I should have given the full details. I was only wanting things i should mention to the dealer if need be or maybe a common issue for focuses.
I hope you all have a good night and hopefully tomorrow the dealer will have the info on the issue and I will report back. Take care everyone


Easy now, you don't want to point out yet another inconsistency in the stories here wink LOL! grin
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#3313590 - 03/16/14 11:53 AM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new


No.
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#3328401 - 03/30/14 05:45 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: hypervish]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I use a tablet to get on here and own a laptop. So your info is false. Scanning a document onto a computer and editing it would be an original copy that was revised and would look brand new part number I have because they did replace it.....you act like it would be so difficult. The people on here are a special kind of stupid.


I thought you used a phone to get on BITOG... not a tablet or laptop

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Have a great night guys..I'm not going to explain my self at every turn
I apologize I wasn't straight forward with the initial info given that is my fault I'm using my phone and hate typing long lengthy things on it. No excuse I should have given the full details. I was only wanting things i should mention to the dealer if need be or maybe a common issue for focuses.
I hope you all have a good night and hopefully tomorrow the dealer will have the info on the issue and I will report back. Take care everyone


I use either my cell phone or the tablet I bought a few months back. I bought a used laptop a few weeks ago to type my resume and to write school papers ect.... not inconsistent at all I used to use only my cell phone. Things do change...
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#3328536 - 03/30/14 08:13 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2943
Loc: Lakeville, MN
I guess some people never learn.

Or they are purposely trolling... popcorn2

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#3328587 - 03/30/14 09:12 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
dishdude Online   content


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 3256
Loc: Phoenix
Why would you resurrect this thread? Welcome back.

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#3329230 - 03/31/14 02:31 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
I responded to the idiots above. Pretty simple.
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#3329350 - 03/31/14 04:25 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25968
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I responded to the idiots above. Pretty simple.


LOL! Captain Happy Pants is back! grin
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#3329455 - 03/31/14 05:55 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: OVERKILL]
hypervish Offline


Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 1472
Loc: new jersey
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I responded to the idiots above. Pretty simple.


LOL! Captain Happy Pants is back! grin


Oh, joy! lol smirk
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#3329642 - 03/31/14 08:26 PM Re: ford focus hard start [Re: ram_man]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 1570
Loc: southern mo
Your [censored] right lol. Captain happy pants I like it. smile

Look guys this needs to end though. I was wrong for being rude and what not. and I wish you could see it from my point of view, I don't appreciate being called a liar and things like that.
We may disagree on things. I may be flat out wrong I don't know everything after all but I don't need to be attacked.
If you don't agree with me on something that's fine but don't make it personal that is wrong and it's wrong when I do it. I apologize for my part in it and I hope we can move forward and both be valuable members of the same board.
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