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#3306711 - 03/10/14 02:38 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
sixtwoturbo Offline


Registered: 01/28/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Abbotsford, BC
All depends on what your driving? Any pre emission diesel is ok for short trips as the oil doesn't get polluted with water etc like a gasser and a good burn once in awhile will clean it out.


Edited by sixtwoturbo (03/10/14 02:38 AM)
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1984 G20 Get A Way van, 6.2 diesel with a remote mounted turbo-HX35 with a billet 60mm HX40 comp wheel, 20 psi, running waste fuels and jet fuel.

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#3307430 - 03/10/14 04:53 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24804
Loc: Illinoistan
I'm talking modern (new) diesel: MB BlueTec, VW TDI, BMW Turbo Diesel.
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'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (Spectro 15W-50)

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#3319557 - 03/22/14 07:20 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1667
Loc: London, England
You will have issues QPete.

Short trips round town are bad for even 10yr old turbo diesels. Variable vane turbos sieze up. Egrs clog up. Inlet manifold fills up with ssme rubbish as egr. Like a soft sticky tar.

Now with dpfs they are almost a no go for town work.

My Jag needs to be taken for runs if used round town a lot. And that gets hot and is kept running for hours on end.

Would i have a turbo diesel if i could get a 3.0 supercharged v6 petrol Jag with either affordable fuel or LPG? No. Personal preference would be the NA 5.0 V8.

Hopefully the newer diesels with Urea systems will be better.

But lgv and buses have has these systems for years in Europe and they still have their dpfs cleaned regularly as part of normal maintenance.

One company, Ceramex, has been doig this for many years and has just rolled out the service for cars.
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#3319558 - 03/22/14 07:22 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1667
Loc: London, England
Sorry should have added.

DI diesels were the slowest to warm up when they were introduced back in the 90's but they did improve this over the years.

Common rail are much better in this respect.
At least in my experience.
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#3329727 - 03/31/14 09:28 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 4859
Loc: CT
They don't like it. I won't buy a diesel truck for many reasons but one of them is all my job sites are close together and in town. I wouldn't ever warm up a Cummins on cold winter days, even with the radiator blocked.

Diesels only really work if you drive a lot. Municipalities that short trip them, especially new trucks with regen have nothing but problems.



Edited by hattaresguy (03/31/14 09:31 PM)

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#3345120 - 04/16/14 10:20 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Hullthumper Offline


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 22
Loc: fl
I cannot speak from experience with diesel automobiles, but I have a fair amount of experience with marine diesels and I feel that short tripping a diesel car or truck would be similar to the type of use that many diesels in sailboats receive. They are often started and used for a short time and often never reach operating temperature for any significant period of time or are run at or near idle without load to charge batteries, and it definitely causes problems and reduces the engines life.

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#3345906 - 04/17/14 08:07 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Hullthumper]
AP9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 211
Loc: Chicago suburbs
Originally Posted By: Hullthumper
I cannot speak from experience with diesel automobiles, but I have a fair amount of experience with marine diesels and I feel that short tripping a diesel car or truck would be similar to the type of use that many diesels in sailboats receive. They are often started and used for a short time and often never reach operating temperature for any significant period of time or are run at or near idle without load to charge batteries, and it definitely causes problems and reduces the engines life.


And they don't even have to cope with the kind of emissions equipment that needs to be fully warmed up for optimal performance.

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#3346075 - 04/17/14 10:44 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
virginoil Offline


Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 979
Loc: western australia
New product from Penrite just released which may help cleaning and assisting in regeneration of diesel particulate filters (DPF's).

Its not recommended t for use in vehicles not fitted with DPF's, which should use the normal diesel injector cleaner.

See link below to product data sheet.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/6DPF%20CLEANER%20JANUARY%202014.pdf


Edited by virginoil (04/17/14 10:46 PM)
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#3348123 - 04/20/14 11:11 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BoostFiend Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Kansas
I think it will be fine actually since you do multiple 200 mile drives each month. That will clear out the DPF and any fuel dilution.
My wife has a 12 VW Golf TDI with a DPF and we have had it for 2 1/2 years and 30k miles. Her work is 2 miles from home. But she drives it to her families house about 100 mile round trip a few times a month. We hardly ever notice any regen's.

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#3350544 - 04/22/14 08:50 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: bigjl]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 1716
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: bigjl
You will have issues QPete.

Short trips round town are bad for even 10yr old turbo diesels. Variable vane turbos sieze up. Egrs clog up. Inlet manifold fills up with ssme rubbish as egr. Like a soft sticky tar.

Now with dpfs they are almost a no go for town work.


agree.
short trips, modern diesels = problems waiting
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#3355824 - 04/28/14 04:42 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3338
Loc: SE Pa
We've had plenty of diesels. Currently down to one, an '09 JSW TDI.

Even on the newer ones, one long drive per week is enough to keep things Kosher.

Less frequently than that, and things don't turn out as well over the long haul.

Because of their combustion efficiency, diesels run inherently cooler than gassers. A turbo actually can be a help for a shorter-tripper in that regard.

For very short commutes, opt for a hybrid or electric over a diesel. Diesels earn their keep on the longer runs.

Hope that helps.

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#3355986 - 04/28/14 06:47 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 892
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Diesels like to be treated like women.... they take a while to warm up but can go a long time.
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#3355990 - 04/28/14 06:50 PM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: TiredTrucker]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2897
Loc: Ohio
Especially the ones with low miles on them.

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#3356390 - 04/29/14 03:52 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: Quattro Pete]
DS9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Belgrade, Serbia, Europe
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: bigjl
You will have issues QPete.

Short trips round town are bad for even 10yr old turbo diesels. Variable vane turbos sieze up. Egrs clog up. Inlet manifold fills up with ssme rubbish as egr. Like a soft sticky tar.

Now with dpfs they are almost a no go for town work.


agree.
short trips, modern diesels = problems waiting


Oh, really - yes it is.

But you shoud say this to many taxi drivers here in Belgrade (3 milion people capital od Serbia).

About 50% of them (in total ~ 10,000 licenced taxi vehicles) drives (common rail) diesel cars that are old about 10 yaers, and tipicaly without DPF/FAP. And most of these cars have been purchased/imported used from western europe with mileage not less than 100,000 km, often much more.

But they know they should change oil regulary every ~10,000 km.

My beloved wife drives litle diesel car - Citroen C3 1.4 HDi 8V, 2006. (same as peugeot 206, same engine) w/o DPF. And it`s quite_ok/superb for city crowd and short trips.

But I know that it is better to put 5W-30, a little bit thinner (but also recomended by manufacturer) oil (ACEA C2, PSA B71 2290).

Acording board computer for last 2000 km. an average speed was 22 km/h, diesel comsuption 5.5 L /100 km.

Oil consumption ~1.5 L / 12,000 km (mesured by me)
Winter temperature (sometimes)-20 C, summer +40 C.

However, diesels with DPF/FAP are other ball gome.

For this reason, important message for UK drivers https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

***

Yes, driving cars = problems waiting






Edited by DS9 (04/29/14 03:58 AM)

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#3357531 - 04/30/14 09:32 AM Re: How bad is short tripping for a diesel engine? [Re: DS9]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1184
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: DS9
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: bigjl
You will have issues QPete.

Short trips round town are bad for even 10yr old turbo diesels. Variable vane turbos sieze up. Egrs clog up. Inlet manifold fills up with ssme rubbish as egr. Like a soft sticky tar.

Now with dpfs they are almost a no go for town work.


agree.
short trips, modern diesels = problems waiting


Oh, really - yes it is.

But you shoud say this to many taxi drivers here in Belgrade (3 milion people capital od Serbia).

About 50% of them (in total ~ 10,000 licenced taxi vehicles) drives (common rail) diesel cars that are old about 10 yaers, and tipicaly without DPF/FAP. And most of these cars have been purchased/imported used from western europe with mileage not less than 100,000 km, often much more.

But they know they should change oil regulary every ~10,000 km.

My beloved wife drives litle diesel car - Citroen C3 1.4 HDi 8V, 2006. (same as peugeot 206, same engine) w/o DPF. And it`s quite_ok/superb for city crowd and short trips.

But I know that it is better to put 5W-30, a little bit thinner (but also recomended by manufacturer) oil (ACEA C2, PSA B71 2290).

Acording board computer for last 2000 km. an average speed was 22 km/h, diesel comsuption 5.5 L /100 km.

Oil consumption ~1.5 L / 12,000 km (mesured by me)
Winter temperature (sometimes)-20 C, summer +40 C.

However, diesels with DPF/FAP are other ball gome.

For this reason, important message for UK drivers https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

***

Yes, driving cars = problems waiting






I wonder how UK authorities are going to confirm the DPF hasn't been bypassed via internal straight pipe and/or hollowed out? The tuners in the UK already do this.
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