Anyone study 2stroke snowmobile oil?

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Whipped500

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I am torn on what to run in my sleds from now on? A very good polaris engine builder likes yamalube that I know of because it does a good job lubricating as well as protects from rust. A sled that I just bought that has some things done to it has always had mystik sea and snow in it and the previous owner said the oil was doing a great job when he had it apart to check things out. I have heard that yamalube and sea and snow are one in the same, can anyone confirm? I was hoping they are because the sea and snow is half the price of the yamalube and last year i saw it go on sale for $8/gal. If they are not the same, does anyone know which is better at lubricating and protecting? I don't mind cleaning the valves more if it means the oil is better for the internals. Also, I ask about these two because of availability for me.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. I know that the majority of 2stroke burn downs have nothing to do with he oil unless it wasn't getting any.
 
Well, Citgo makes both Mystik and Yamalube so maybe? To be honest they make a ton of store branded oils/greases etc so I'd be shocked if they didn't make a few other 2 cycle oils and if each one were a bit different. But the quality of the mystik should be on par with Yamalube at the very least.

To be honest I've never seen any even pseudo-scientific study comparing two stroke oils, and in my experience with outboards it's always been a cylinder running lean over questionable oil.

Hopefully somebody who knows more than I do will chime in.
 
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I have the same delema. i have a fresh rebuild, gaskets bearings pistons rings rods. rod bearing defective factory recall. didn't know till after it tore out clutchside cylinder and piston. my engine builder machined crank, milled head down to bump up comp ratio, the damaged jug had to be sleeved so we did both sides way over oversize..

i heard run five minutes ran .25mile and stored last 3-5yrs since the snow sucked.
i was thinking. of running syn but hate to pay double. i have to pull the carb and and get a battery

is dexcool cool for these or no. i ask since i have a gallon or two of straight dexcool laying around for the geo metro1.0
 
My dad always ran Citgo, and he was one of those that would put a couple thousand miles a year on a sled.
 
Does anybody know if the rumor of yamalube and sea and snow being the same is true or not?

If not does anyone know what percent synthetic vs mineral oil they made up of?
(Ie brand x - 60% mineral 40% synthetic )

Thanks
 
I was told they are the same. They are the same color. I have little experience with Sea and Snow. But I ran Yamalube 2R for years in a number of bikes and it was the cleanest(little to no carbon) inside and I was impressed.
 
Yamalube and Citgo Sea and Snow used to be the same. In fact, when you brought up the MSDS, it had the Citgo logo right on the letterhead. A couple of years ago I was talking to a Yammie dealer parts guy who said the suppliers had changed.. Hadn't given it much thought until I saw this thread.

I did some digging and came up with a MSDS put out by Lubricantes Texaco, S.A., with a revision date of 2/07/07. So it looks as if Citgo is no longer producing Yamalube 2s.

As for the using Citgo Sea and Snow in your sleds... Go for it! Good stuff for sure, I've used it for many hard miles with nary an issue. Some say it burns as clean or cleaner than some of the OE sled manu's synthetic oils.
 
The reason I ask all of this is because a very well respected sled engine builder that I know of really likes the yamalube. He likes it because when he takes apart the engines that were using it, he says it looks new. Everything is lubricated, it has a good amount of anti corrosion inhibitors in it and everything clean.

So, if I could get the same thing for half the price, I would like to save the money. I know that not one oil is magical and most of the time that there is an oil related failure in a 2 stroke, it is from the engine not getting any oil or from not being stored correctly when not being used for extended period of times (summer).

Also, I have only heard good things about sea and snow. I know it could be used with confidence. I am just wondering if they are/were the same and or how close they are? Or is the sea and snow actually better?

I think I am going to use sea and snow to save the money and because I'm not racing or anything but just want to use the best. Even though the sea and snow is twice as much ($15 vs $30) it really isn't that much for difference for the ~2 gallons I use a year.

Thanks
 
Well, more than likely your builder has been at it a while and the Yamalube he's referring to, is the stuff that was made by Citgo. When they were making it, Sea and Snow was the same stuff. One MSDS said Yamalube (with Citgo on it), the other said Citgo Sea and Snow. Same properties. It is a low ash JASO FD/ISO EGD oil, meaning you're not going to find a better quality oil for the price. Speaking of price, it's funny you mention it being twice as expensive as (Yamalube)? I've found it to be the other way around. I can usually find it for 15-18 dollars per gallon here.

A long time ago, I learned to stop splitting hairs on oil and to stop worrying. Find something that you like, for whatever reasons, and stick with it. Those reasons could vary from good advertising, smell, looks, performance (real or perceived) or price. One thing that I have noticed that is a common thread amongst riders is that the ones that use the Sea and Snow, Injex, or whatever low priced lube can get the same long life out their sled engines as the guys using the Amsoils, Klotz, Blue Marble, Ipone or whatever boutique oils. It all about using a quality product and taking care of your sled.

A note on oil related failures... For the overwhelming majority of us, they don't exist. I'd say that the number one cause of failure would be lean burn downs from plugged up jets. Number two would be lean burn downs from either missing a tune or an over aggressive tune (think ported/piped/heads). Then comes problems from water and overheats. Snow ingestion or rust. There is the occasional oil pump failure, or line that was kinked/damaged or fell off, but really, for us everyday riders, we have nothing to fear from the oil we use.
 
That's what I was getting at as well with the burndowns. Basically it's never from just the oil itself.

I am waiting for farm and fleet by me to put the sea and snow on sale again for $8 a gallon after rebate and I am going to stockpile it.
 
A little late, but the sea and snow sale came around that I was waiting for...I picked up 16 gallons! After rebate, they came out to $8/gal. I have many years of oil stocked up now. I bought so much because this oil seems to really be getting popular and people on the snowmobile forums from other areas are saying the price keeps climbing. They say they are paying about the same as yamalube. I was afraid the price would climb by me or the rebate would go away.
I'm confident this oil will work just fine if not better than some of the others.
Thanks everybody!
 
I have a 2009 Ski Doo XP with the 500ss ( 600 carb ) engine. It has had Sea and Snow it's whole life and now has 12,200 miles. Never been apart, still runs well. Before that two Polaris XC500sp's with 10,000 miles each, same story.

As stated above meets the highest JASO and European specs. Good stuff.

Hard to find in Michigan. I buy it by the case from a distributor in Utica Mi.
 
Hi. I'm new here and thought this might be a good thread to add a question. I've seen posts elsewhere suggesting that higher premix oil rations equate to less fuel and therefore lean burn conditions. So, going from 100:1 down to 24:1 would give an overall leaner fuel mix.

Interesting theory, but I'd be inclined to think that the fuel reduction is not really significant in the first place and thinking that the autoignition temp might be higher for the added oil which might hold off the detonation.

Any thoughts on the effect of oil premix to octane/detonation characteristics?

Thanks
wobbie
 
Well.....

For example......take one chainsaw (doesnt matter...because it is 2stroke engine like snowmobile engine).....

You prepare your mixture at 2%.....you poure that mixture into the chainsaw tank.......chainsaw bogs when you want to get it running at WOT....

Than you take screwdriver.....and you set your carburator to new settings...that particular chainsaw doesnt bogs at 2% mixture.....

next time you mix new mixture....lets say at 3%.....any you pour that new mixture into tank....

And chainsaw with carburator set for 2% mixture "bogs" on 3% mixture......and than you take your screwdriver again and set your carborator to new settings....and chainsaw runs just fine again...

And so on and one....if you know what I meant?

Regular chainsaw/snowmobile/2 stroke lawnmover....take 2% mixture

Anything tuned up......3% plus
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: wobbie
Hi. I'm new here and thought this might be a good thread to add a question. I've seen posts elsewhere suggesting that higher premix oil rations equate to less fuel and therefore lean burn conditions. So, going from 100:1 down to 24:1 would give an overall leaner fuel mix.

Interesting theory, but I'd be inclined to think that the fuel reduction is not really significant in the first place and thinking that the autoignition temp might be higher for the added oil which might hold off the detonation.

Any thoughts on the effect of oil premix to octane/detonation characteristics?

Thanks
wobbie


More oil in the premix will equate to a leaner fuel air ratio. I've seen guys burn up saws running 32:1 mix in a saw tuned for 50:1. More oil is not always better.
 
I always find it funny when guys try skimping on gas and oil for there toys. ETH free gas and good oil only way to go... if you get it cheaper. Then yahoo...
Guy at another site was upset his twin etec 250s blowed up. Turns out he was using pump gas and no additives... also using a lower grade oil in cold conditions... but he saved a few bucks...
 
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