MMO before 2600 mile trip - Toyota 3MZFE

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I would do it, wont hurt and might clean some. I like many others have used MMO for full oci's without issue.

As for the MMO/cat thing, non-issue. I have yet to come across a MMO cat failure story. Ask demarpaint about that.
 
Put MMO in oil at the 20%-25% dosage and your oil becomes 20 weight. You'll also reduce the existing anti wear and detergent additives and replace them with solvent and phosphorous.

Put MMO in gas and you'll be adding phosphorous which is not cat friendly.

Your engine doesn't need MMO and Techron is better for your gas.

Many here and elsewhere report good results with MMO and I believe them.

But it's not recommended and not required in well running and well maintained engines like yours. Sure its unlikely to damage anything during one time use, but there is no reason in your case to even take the chance.

And if you want to clean the fuel system, use Techron when you get back and can drive a less highway intensive fuel tank cycle.
 
B12 Chemtool from Walmart. Cheaper than MMO.

As for a UCL....

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


I have yet to see any STLE, SAE, or lab document that shows any scientific (thermodynamic, tribological, chemical, or mechnical) evidence to support the need for an upper cylinder lubricant.

If and when I ever find such a document I will write a white paper on it.

I can see where a fuel additive may help lubricate say the pintle/valve in a diesel fuel injector system when using low sulfur fuel. But how much wear would it actually reduce?

Again, some supportable, repeatable data would be nice.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Put MMO in oil at the 20%-25% dosage and your oil becomes 20 weight. You'll also reduce the existing anti wear and detergent additives and replace them with solvent and phosphorous.

Put MMO in gas and you'll be adding phosphorous which is not cat friendly.

Your engine doesn't need MMO and Techron is better for your gas.

Many here and elsewhere report good results with MMO and I believe them.

But it's not recommended and not required in well running and well maintained engines like yours. Sure its unlikely to damage anything during one time use, but there is no reason in your case to even take the chance.

And if you want to clean the fuel system, use Techron when you get back and can drive a less highway intensive fuel tank cycle.


It pains me to say it but Trevor has summed it up nicely right there. I'm out. Thread conquered
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
As for a UCL....

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


I have yet to see any STLE, SAE, or lab document that shows any scientific (thermodynamic, tribological, chemical, or mechnical) evidence to support the need for an upper cylinder lubricant.

If and when I ever find such a document I will write a white paper on it.

I can see where a fuel additive may help lubricate say the pintle/valve in a diesel fuel injector system when using low sulfur fuel. But how much wear would it actually reduce?

Again, some supportable, repeatable data would be nice.


Yes, I have read that post as well and I respect Molakule's views on the subject. I was simply stating that the intended use for MMO in gas (especially among BITOGers) is primarily as a UCL (needed or not), not to clean up a dirty fuel system.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike
I would do it, wont hurt and might clean some. I like many others have used MMO for full oci's without issue.

As for the MMO/cat thing, non-issue. I have yet to come across a MMO cat failure story. Ask demarpaint about that.


Me either. Here's one to ponder about cat failures. Many car new car owners complain about oil consumption, some a qt. of oil per 1,000 miles, or more. This is actual oil, oil that wasn't designed to burn. When they return to the dealers complaining they're told it is normal and sent packing most of the time. How many of these people had early cat converter failures? I don't know of any. MMO isn't going to harm the cat converter, or the 02 sensors they make that pretty clear too.

Back on topic, the OP asked about adding it to his oil no the gas. There are enough opinions here for the OP to make a decision for or against, I think?

OP let us know what you decide, either way enjoy the trip!

As a side note: If you want to clean your injectors grab a bottle of Red Line FI cleaner. Follow the directions. Use it for shorter trips where the product has time to soak and do some cleaning. It contains a UCL and IMO is the best of the bunch when it comes to cleaning injectors.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Wouldn't use MMO in the gas as it has oil which is not cat friendly. Techron is approved and works best.


The Marvel folks specifically disagree with you on the Cat issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
A pint at each fill up may be too much for OP's tank. MMO recommends the initial dose at a ratio of 4 ounces per each 10 gallons of fuel in a full tank. So for example if OP has a 20 gallon tank, he should add 8 ounces of MMO to the tank first then fill the tank. Then at each subsequent fill up he should only add at a 4 ounces to 10 gallon ratio but only for the amount of gas it takes to fill the tank. If he fills up around the 1/4 tank mark, roughly 15 gallons on his 20 gallon tank, he should only add about 6 ounces of MMO. These figures are just hypothetical for use as examples only, OP will need to figure the right dose for his tank.


1 quart per 1000 miles. Keep it simple.
 
Last week I bought a 2009 Subaru Forester with 44k miles on the clock with unknown oil change history. You can't peak down the fill hole on these 2.5 boxer engines.

Supposedly the oil only has 1000 miles on it (according to the Jiffy Lube sticker on the windshield), but its already fairly dark.

I'm getting ready to drive the car tonight to Detroit and back (a 500 mile round trip) and I jusst added a quart of MMO to my crankcase. Is my engine cruddy? I don't know.

I just paid $14,000 for this car. I'm a chemist. This is the decision I made.
 
I'll bite; here is my late Subaru EJ22 under valve cover pic. I used a full 5-7k run of 20-25% MMO every few OCI's after getting this car at around 122K. I did several of these runs and the oil would come out very dark. Granted, I did not pull the valve covers when I got the car. I am simply relaying my observations on a fairly consistent use of MMO.

Quick note here - I made the mistake of doing a quick over spray with brake cleaner to get rid of the dripping residual oil before I installed the new valve cover gaskets. I'm mentioning this because some folks whined saying that it was hand cleaned or whatever... Regardless, I can assure you that it was just as clean before I sprayed of the remaining oil, it just looks super dry in the pic. The other pic is the valve cover itself that I snapped before I sprayed it off with brake cleaner. I love MMO and use it everywhere I can.



 
Anytime somebody asks a question, the counter question to him always should be "what are you trying to solve?" Why not articulate the original problem and get the solution for that rather than asking about your pre-conceived "solution"?
 
Very impressive, but how do you know that MMO was responsible for or contributed to the cleanliness?

Originally Posted By: sw99
I'll bite; here is my late Subaru EJ22 under valve cover pic. I used a full 5-7k run of 20-25% MMO every few OCI's after getting this car at around 122K. I did several of these runs and the oil would come out very dark. Granted, I did not pull the valve covers when I got the car. I am simply relaying my observations on a fairly consistent use of MMO.

Quick note here - I made the mistake of doing a quick over spray with brake cleaner to get rid of the dripping residual oil before I installed the new valve cover gaskets. I'm mentioning this because some folks whined saying that it was hand cleaned or whatever... Regardless, I can assure you that it was just as clean before I sprayed of the remaining oil, it just looks super dry in the pic. The other pic is the valve cover itself that I snapped before I sprayed it off with brake cleaner. I love MMO and use it everywhere I can.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike
I would do it, wont hurt and might clean some. I like many others have used MMO for full oci's without issue.

As for the MMO/cat thing, non-issue. I have yet to come across a MMO cat failure story. Ask demarpaint about that.

I responded above that MMO is not a cat issue. That's the official word from MMO. My own experience over several different vehicles is that MMO may be a cat issue. It's a pretty good way to generate a P0420 code. That's the bad news.

The good news is that most car makers don't put too much stock in the rear O2 sensor. Cynics would say that the rear O2 sensor is included simply to make a vehicle OBD2 compliant. The front O2 sensor is important - it runs the engine. The rear O2 sensor is mostly along for the ride.

Given the relative significance of the rear O2 sensor, there are a variety of equally significant work-arounds in case you start generating P0420 codes - everything from a spark-plug anti-fouler (the $5 fix) to simply deleting the P0420 code from your ECU, if you have an open port reader/writer. You can also citrus-clean your cat. There is a fair body of evidence that vehicles showing a P0420 error will still pass a tailpipe snorkel test. That is, they are not polluting.
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Last week I bought a 2009 Subaru Forester with 44k miles on the clock with unknown oil change history. You can't peak down the fill hole on these 2.5 boxer engines.

Supposedly the oil only has 1000 miles on it (according to the Jiffy Lube sticker on the windshield), but its already fairly dark.

I'm getting ready to drive the car tonight to Detroit and back (a 500 mile round trip) and I jusst added a quart of MMO to my crankcase. Is my engine cruddy? I don't know.

I just paid $14,000 for this car. I'm a chemist. This is the decision I made.


Good decision. Add the MMO. Enjoy the drive. Enjoy the car!!

When you get home, drain the oil and filter (OEM preferred) and get onto a regular oil change program - preferably as far away from Jiffy Lube as possible. FWIW, this is an easy vehicle for DIY oil / filter changes.

If you have an N/A Forester, it's pretty easy on oil. The turbo cars are a bit more particular - Subaru wants a 3000 mile 'extreme service' OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Very impressive, but how do you know that MMO was responsible for or contributed to the cleanliness?


You might never know for sure. But, if you've ever seen an engine for which oil changes were unknown, the insides are a mess - crud over most surfaces, sludge, etc. Adding some kind of solvent to the oil for a thousand miles or so cleans them up.

You could also get back to a regular oil change program - every X thousand miles - and be sure to drain the oil when it is very hot. Over time, that will also clean the engine. But the solvent will simply do a quicker job - mostly clean after one oil change.

MMO has a significant solvent content. But, you could also use Techron or Sea Foam or [fill in the name]. I am not suggesting this is product specific. For sure, the best practice is to change your oil regularly and this is not necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358


MMO has a significant solvent content. But, you could also use Techron or Sea Foam or [fill in the name]. I am not suggesting this is product specific. For sure, the best practice is to change your oil regularly and this is not necessary.


Techron can't be added to the oil. I don't know much about Sea Foam in oil either. Some swear by it, others swear at it. Otherwise good info!
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Very impressive, but how do you know that MMO was responsible for or contributed to the cleanliness?


You might never know for sure.


There is no *might never know* about it if you look first. There is no way of knowing at *all* if you don't look first before adding stuff,
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
There is no *might never know* about it if you look first. There is no way of knowing at *all* if you don't look first before adding stuff,


So the only way of knowing is a complete tear down? Or removal of the valve covers? Or what?

At least one major purpose of using some kind of liquid 'engine cleaner' is to avoid the tear down.
 
Quote:
The good news is that most car makers don't put too much stock in the rear O2 sensor. Cynics would say that the rear O2 sensor is included simply to make a vehicle OBD2 compliant. The front O2 sensor is important - it runs the engine. The rear O2 sensor is mostly along for the ride.

Given the relative significance of the rear O2 sensor, there are a variety of equally significant work-arounds in case you start generating P0420 codes - everything from a spark-plug anti-fouler (the $5 fix) to simply deleting the P0420 code from your ECU, if you have an open port reader/writer. You can also citrus-clean your cat. There is a fair body of evidence that vehicles showing a P0420 error will still pass a tailpipe snorkel test. That is, they are not polluting.
I agree with every single statement. However, there is nothing "cynical" about it. This is how the system is designed. This is why puttting fresh new rear O2 sensor at the first sign of P0420 is so stupid and counterproductive.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
The good news is that most car makers don't put too much stock in the rear O2 sensor. Cynics would say that the rear O2 sensor is included simply to make a vehicle OBD2 compliant. The front O2 sensor is important - it runs the engine. The rear O2 sensor is mostly along for the ride.

Given the relative significance of the rear O2 sensor, there are a variety of equally significant work-arounds in case you start generating P0420 codes - everything from a spark-plug anti-fouler (the $5 fix) to simply deleting the P0420 code from your ECU, if you have an open port reader/writer. You can also citrus-clean your cat. There is a fair body of evidence that vehicles showing a P0420 error will still pass a tailpipe snorkel test. That is, they are not polluting.

I agree with every single statement. However, there is nothing "cynical" about it. This is how the system is designed. This is why putting fresh new rear O2 sensor at the first sign of P0420 is so stupid and counterproductive.

Usually, a new rear O2 sensor will do no good.

And, if you take the vehicle to the dealer, the dealer really has on two or three repair options - replace the rear O2 sensor, replace the front O2 sensor or replace the cat. Replacing the cat is not a pleasant option, unless it's under warranty. OEM cats are deathly expensive. Even the front O2 sensor is fairly pricey. Replacing the front O2 sensor might make the engine run a bit better, so it's not a total waste, but it generally won't solve the problem.

The $5 fix solves the CEL code problem and leaves the OBDII codes ready. If you delete the P0420 code from the ECU, a sharp-eyed inspector might balk. Maybe, maybe not.
 
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