Interesting conversation with Mike Rowe

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: Mykl
If you can't find a job, adapt.

The world changes. If you can't or won't change with it the problem is not the world, it's you.
Why didn't I think of that. Now can you tell me how I'm supposed to live in 2014, on the same amount of income that I had in 1984? That should be easy for such a knowledgeable person like yourself.,,


If you maintain an expectation that somebody is going to tell you specifically what you're supposed to do, you're already lost.
If you don't have a real answer, do you think your reply is worth anything?.,,

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

The problem is that these people will do exactly that, forcing the continued offshoring and race for the bottom, and then cry woe is me. Meanwhile they are putting their neighbor or countryman out of a job, and then claiming poverty and requesting increases in their benefits. It just doesnt add up. Usually they will also be putting hundreds out with phones, cable, etc. at the same time. It just doesnt add up to me...


That's why I buy very little mail order and really don't use Amazon unless a last resort. I'd rather pay a little more and ensure that the local businesses (even the big boxes employ lots of locals) keep my neighbors employed.

 

[TrevorS]

I personally value financial independence above almost everything, especially as I get older. So I am very careful about my spending.

If you're worried about your future job prospects or income, then you need to make some choices in what you spend your money on. It's the thing you have more control over.

The great thing in America is that if you work hard and a little smart, you can earn good money. And in countless parts of the country, the cost of living can be very low. Get smart about your spending on big ticket items.

Firstly, figure out if its cheaper to buy or rent given the tax credit difference plus property tax plus what you would want / need to spend on your home.

Second, understand the true cost of owning a vehicle and how much of your income after housing and other necessities it will eat up. Never compare the cost of anything to your gross income. Always compare the cost of anything to your income after tax and after necessities.

Third, what are your next big ticket items? Vacations? Eating Out? Entertainment? An Expensive Hobby?

Vacation costs can be minimized in many ways including planning ahead on meals, getting miles and points from credit card sign ups and business travel and credit card points. Cable costs can be minimized or eliminated and time can be spent by kids and adults on far better brain building activities. Eating out can be substituted and improved on by visiting high end supermarkets and getting their ready made items and / or cooking top quality ingredients at home in a simple way.

The first thing I was taught in Economics is that humans have unlimited wants.

If you don't control what it is that you think you need, then you will spend all your money. And because so many parts of our population believe they need so many things, and are never happy unless they have what everyone else has, we've lost sight of the fact that we are pretty much the richest country in the world with so many things that so many others don't enjoy. But it is our own unlimited needs that prevents us from seeing that and getting to a place where we are individually financially more secure.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: Mykl
If you can't find a job, adapt.

The world changes. If you can't or won't change with it the problem is not the world, it's you.
Why didn't I think of that. Now can you tell me how I'm supposed to live in 2014, on the same amount of income that I had in 1984? That should be easy for such a knowledgeable person like yourself.,,


If you maintain an expectation that somebody is going to tell you specifically what you're supposed to do, you're already lost.


But you also have to see that by definition there will be people who are not successful despite their attempts to adapt and effectively your response to such people is going to be "tough luck".

 

[SatinSilver]

I heard on the radio yesterday that MEN ages 24-54(prime working years) have a 20% unemployment rate. This is not under-employed but have no job. Of those men, 50% have been out of work 6 months or longer.

The area I'm in(Northeastern OH) has had the most job losses than anywhere in the country for 3 or 4 quarters in a row.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
When I tell people I work and go to school they seem very surprised. I thought it was the norm since I have to work to pay for college. It seems people usually do one or the other. I have friends who go to class twice a day and goof off the rest of the day. They say they don't work because they have to study.

I can't imagine this form of work ethic will be beneficial for their future careers.


Yup, this reminds me of a recent thread asking to petition for higher student loan tax deduction. Many level headed people tried to explain to the OP why it's a bad idea, but many, including the OP just wanted a handout.
I know of few people that treated their "studying" as a big vacation, maxing out the student loans with absolutely no desire to have a part time job to reduce the borrowing. They are the ones to complain today about their debt.

I was fortunate enough not to have any student loans. I say fortunate, because I realize not everybody can graduate without any debt simply because the part time jobs don't pay enough. But the hardworking and motivated people will still have a part time job just to reduce the amounts being borrowed. That's what separates the motivated people from the entitled ones.

There is one aspect being constant throughout these types of threads, the hard working and motivated people don’t complain much about student loans or the fact that they have to pay them back. They understand that it’s the cost of “doing business” so to speak or an investment in their future that will pay dividends later on in their life.

The entitled ones are often the group that has problems with their debt and the fact that they have to pay it back.


What is also missed is that college has become very expensive. Why not focus on the reasons for that as well as consider if the education path one chooses provides the income one wants. Younger people need to be told the realities of the world so they can make informed decisions. Instead we put them in front of TVs and subject them to and teach them an alternate reality that suits the interests of corporations trying to sell anything.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
But you also have to see that by definition there will be people who are not successful despite their attempts to adapt and effectively your response to such people is going to be "tough luck".


Yes, but how many people do you know who make it a job to go and find employment fail to do so? If you lose your job and your plan is to sit on your rear and complain about the lack of available employment without doing anything who is to blame?

I get that "try harder" only works to a certain point. But giving up isn't the answer.

 

[andrewg]

Mike Rowe seems very REAL in this ever fake and shallow country. His opinions and ideas are REAL....his honesty is REAL....and in my opinion, his solutions about how to become employed are certainly REAL.
It's a pity that more Americans don't grasp the core ethics of hard work, picking ones self UP, doing what it takes, and being a go getter.
Go Mike!!

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Sad to see folks without work, there is a tremendous human cost when a guy WANTS work and can't get it. Some of course aren't looking too hard.

I like Mike, he seems pretty level headed...


Yes he's talking about something that is very overlooked and he's pretty much the only one, so good on him.

I did though lose respect for him when he did the Ford commercials. As I've learnt more and more about vehicles, as well as finding that every Ford dealer multi point check up was riddled with mistakes, I wonder how many customers have been scammed by Ford dealers luring them in with those deals that Mike advertises.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
But you also have to see that by definition there will be people who are not successful despite their attempts to adapt and effectively your response to such people is going to be "tough luck".


Yes, but how many people do you know who make it a job to go and find employment fail to do so? If you lose your job and your plan is to sit on your rear and complain about the lack of available employment without doing anything who is to blame?

I get that "try harder" only works to a certain point. But giving up isn't the answer.


But I think the person you were responding to was in a different situation.

Sure, people who can't be bothered to look for a job or who aren't willing to adapt are one thing, but people who continuously adapt and work hard and honestly, when they have a tough time, that's sad.

Maybe it's for the cameras but in Undercover Boss you see many stories of hard working people that are truly touching and show the good honest hard working ethic throughout the country.

And for those who are not motivated, I think it would be better for all of us to understand why and help motivate them rather than condemn them or give them endless handouts.

 

[turtlevette]

The USA is unique in that we welcome anyone from any country who wants to go to school and work here. It's not a two way street. The USA's work visa system floods the market with professionals from other countries. And there's an unlimited sump of them. Billions.

20 years ago I was competing against the people who were born here for jobs. And essentially just people from the surrounding area. Now, for an engineering job down the road, I'm competing with everyone in the world. And people from China and India and other oppressive countries are so desperate to come here that they will work for very little or even nothing. There are a lot of intern jobs these days that pay zilch. Foreign kids are being bank rolled by their parents. Many will put 10-15 people in a house and think that's still high living.

Many people don't understand, it's not just the illegals taking low end jobs.

The democrats want this because they are bleeding hearts. The republicans want this because they want cheap labor for corporations. So we are all stuffed.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071


2. There are certainly jobs out there, I agree, but the point is they aren't sustainable jobs. Most of them are minimum wage with no benefits, and limits on how many hours you can work. I have friends who have graduated with 4 year degrees and couldn't find jobs, so they are working at Dunkin Donuts to pay off their student loans.


Same. The problem is, whenever someone wants to do something that can pay people $15-$20+ per hour, they get driven out ... at least here in NY.

We can *NOT* build transfer cases or make guns - but building a mall is fine.



In my observations, not going the college route and going into the military at age 21, working blue collar before hand since high school, that veteran experience anymore has more impact than a bachelors degree.

I've seen guys get out, become gov contractors and make 100k$+ a year.

Getting out of the military, working and using your mgib for an education just adds to the preference on you over someone else,
Buddy of mine from high school, did 4 years ages 18-21 in the army, chinook repair mechanic, did 4 years after that at uti using his gi bill, needless to say, he works for international for 90k a year, and just got an offer from general dynamics for 120k a year.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

The problem is that these people will do exactly that, forcing the continued offshoring and race for the bottom, and then cry woe is me. Meanwhile they are putting their neighbor or countryman out of a job, and then claiming poverty and requesting increases in their benefits. It just doesnt add up. Usually they will also be putting hundreds out with phones, cable, etc. at the same time. It just doesnt add up to me...


That's why I buy very little mail order and really don't use Amazon unless a last resort. I'd rather pay a little more and ensure that the local businesses (even the big boxes employ lots of locals) keep my neighbors employed.


That is a great point. I try to do so as well, but it can be pretty tough. Not sure mom and pop ever had some of the more obscure and technical stuff, that was always a functionof luck of having a good vendor in your area. But youre absolutely right. Of couse it also balances with shipping costs vs gas costs. I just drove 80 miles this past weekend to support a vendor of a specific item I liked. Small time business, locally made items. I may have been better off shipping stuff though...

 

[Clevy]

I saw all this coming 20 years ago. When all my friends were going to college and university I went to work. I didn't even graduate high school. I was too busy partying and selling dope,and had more disposable cash then my teachers did.
Anyways at 18 I got with a girl 5 years older than me so I went to work for a living. At 20 I became a partner in the construction company I worked for and at 22 I was living the dream working in Detroit making 6 figures and with a 50c exchange rate I covered 2 mortgages just off the exchange from American to Canadian funds.
I got out of Detroit months before the entire country tanked,sold my assets and made a profit then went to Ontario to follow another housing boom.
All my life I've chased booms and made out like a bandit. I came back to my hometown maybe 8 years ago and decided to put down roots and my company employs 40 men and does 7 figures in business every year.
All from a high school drop out,convict.
And most of my friends who went to college are under employed and their degrees are nothing more than fodder.
My point is if you want something in this world you gotta take it,no one will give it to you.
I got up every morning prepared to take over the world and I have,my little piece of it anyways.
I hurt my back a few years ago so now I operate our machines and do the administration as well as form the quotes and chase the money.
No one thought I'd amount to anything because in my youth I was a drinking stoned loser,but even drunk and high I did my job well which got me more work. Today I get whichever projects I want. My generals don't even look at my quotes anymore because they know whatever it costs it equals a finished,quality project.

 

[javacontour]

I'm nearing 50 and I still go to school. I take a few classes every year, either corporate training on new products or local community college courses to keep up with or add to my certifications.

One must continually adapt.

I've done jobs from cutting grass and delivering newspapers to running my own photo business, working construction, not to mention military service, software engineering, IT instruction and now IT field service.

It's been about seeing what is or isn't in and leveraging what I know with what is needed.

Back in 2000, IT education all but died because the DOT COM abruptly ended and companies were not sending anyone who could fog a mirror to training. The job market was full of folks already trained who were out of work, or those who were training on-line.

There was and to some extent still is quite a bit of IT outsourcing. How do you hedge against being outsourced? You don't do a job that can be done anywhere in the world. Unless the computer gear gets moved as well, my job as an FSE is the IT equivalent of being a tradesman.

Stuff may be moving to the cloud, but the cloud is made up of physical computers, connected together. Installing and maintaining the servers and network pipes is still a good place to be.

I tell my kids that if your job can be done with a keyboard, it can be done anywhere in the world.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I saw all this coming 20 years ago. When all my friends were going to college and university I went to work. I didn't even graduate high school. I was too busy partying and selling dope,and had more disposable cash then my teachers did.
Anyways at 18 I got with a girl 5 years older than me so I went to work for a living. At 20 I became a partner in the construction company I worked for and at 22 I was living the dream working in Detroit making 6 figures and with a 50c exchange rate I covered 2 mortgages just off the exchange from American to Canadian funds.
I got out of Detroit months before the entire country tanked,sold my assets and made a profit then went to Ontario to follow another housing boom.
All my life I've chased booms and made out like a bandit. I came back to my hometown maybe 8 years ago and decided to put down roots and my company employs 40 men and does 7 figures in business every year.
All from a high school drop out,convict.
And most of my friends who went to college are under employed and their degrees are nothing more than fodder.
My point is if you want something in this world you gotta take it,no one will give it to you.
I got up every morning prepared to take over the world and I have,my little piece of it anyways.
I hurt my back a few years ago so now I operate our machines and do the administration as well as form the quotes and chase the money.
No one thought I'd amount to anything because in my youth I was a drinking stoned loser,but even drunk and high I did my job well which got me more work. Today I get whichever projects I want. My generals don't even look at my quotes anymore because they know whatever it costs it equals a finished,quality project.


Good for you, man.

If more folks would take the risk and start their own biz they would at least have a chance of making a little bit of money for themselves and their families.

It's scary though, and involves risk and very hard work. Not suitable for all...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I saw all this coming 20 years ago. When all my friends were going to college and university I went to work. I didn't even graduate high school. I was too busy partying and selling dope,and had more disposable cash then my teachers did.
Anyways at 18 I got with a girl 5 years older than me so I went to work for a living. At 20 I became a partner in the construction company I worked for and at 22 I was living the dream working in Detroit making 6 figures and with a 50c exchange rate I covered 2 mortgages just off the exchange from American to Canadian funds.
I got out of Detroit months before the entire country tanked,sold my assets and made a profit then went to Ontario to follow another housing boom.
All my life I've chased booms and made out like a bandit. I came back to my hometown maybe 8 years ago and decided to put down roots and my company employs 40 men and does 7 figures in business every year.
All from a high school drop out,convict.
And most of my friends who went to college are under employed and their degrees are nothing more than fodder.
My point is if you want something in this world you gotta take it,no one will give it to you.
I got up every morning prepared to take over the world and I have,my little piece of it anyways.
I hurt my back a few years ago so now I operate our machines and do the administration as well as form the quotes and chase the money.
No one thought I'd amount to anything because in my youth I was a drinking stoned loser,but even drunk and high I did my job well which got me more work. Today I get whichever projects I want. My generals don't even look at my quotes anymore because they know whatever it costs it equals a finished,quality project.


Good for you, man.

If more folks would take the risk and start their own biz they would at least have a chance of making a little bit of money for themselves and their families.

It's scary though, and involves risk and very hard work. Not suitable for all...


I was always told by my teachers and peers that I as a loser and I wouldn't amount to anything. And they were right based on my track record until I hit 18 years old then suddenly I had a family because I got with a girl with 2 young kids so playtime was over and time to get to work.
And I've worked ever since. I find my own work and make my own job for myself and it so happens in the process of getting myself work I can employ men and share the wealth.
And I'm not greedy so my builders don't even haggle with me. My prices are fair,we provide a quality product in a reasonable amount of time.
And I finish my jobs which is a huge thing in construction.
My reputation gets me work. I don't even look anymore. My phone rings.
And we are one of the last local crews that can take on large projects. Everyone else downsized and we exploded.
Not that I'm complaining.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
....
Quote:
The lack of sustainable jobs that pay decent also hurts growth in other areas of a community. Its hard to establish a company that sells well-made non-outsourced products in an area where nobody can afford those products.


True but how does it start? Pay people well and they can afford your product.

.....


I'd say with simple economics. Around here, we're overrun with illegals.

Illegal = cheap labor.

Run all the illegals out, and cut off the unskilled, but legal, immigrant stream, and *eventually* the price of labor, will increase, and the natural order of things will return, provided that spoiled Americans who want to retire early, and take a month off in August in the meantime, are willing to put down the cell phone, turn off the TV, and go back to hard work.

I have my doubts.

I dare say that there would be additional social benefits of this house cleaning, including, but not limited to, less crime and welfare.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
.... There are people who will be cheap no matter what, but I think it is safe to say that if people could afford something that is better but slightly more expensive they would spend the money.



There is no evidence that this is true. There is an abundance of evidence to the contrary.

Wal Mart is where it is because it gives people what they want - low prices.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^exactly, they are only reacting to consumer driven demand for ever lower prices on everything. Can't blame them for a superb business model that provides what the average person seems to want!