HM oil application question...

[dave180]

I know the HM thing has been beat to death around here and I am looking for opinions on my scenario. I have a '01 Town & Country 3.8L with about 154,xxx miles. I recognized obvious oil burning from the blue cloud it left after a cold start and driving down the street. I have replaced the valve stem seals and PVC.

It seemed to be fine and now, after 3.5K miles, the blue cloud has returned. If I start it and idle it to operating temp > no blue smoke. If I drive it lightly to warm it up > no blue smoke. Hard accel > blue smoke.

I am on my 2nd VML Syn 2K OCI. In each OCI I have added 1qt. at about 1000 mi. and it is due in about 900 miles.

I am ready to give up on HM oils and just use a regular dino or cheap synthetic. What is recommended given these facts? I have used synthetics before (QSUD or PP) for engine protection and it has apparently worked as the engine is very strong and very quiet.

 

[crazyoildude]

Try phm 5w30

 

[expat]

"If I drive it lightly to warm it up > no blue smoke. Hard accel > blue smoke."

That sounds like Rings.

 

[dave180]

Originally Posted By: expat
"If I drive it lightly to warm it up > no blue smoke. Hard accel > blue smoke."

That sounds like Rings.


Really? It only occurs when cold on first start-up. The rest of the day there is NO evidence of oil burning.

Since there will be NO engine rebuild in my future, would PHM or something else do anything to alleviate this issue or should I just keep adding as needed?

 

[Red91]

The thing to keep in mind is that HM oils are not cures, but band aids. Very good band aids IMO, but band aids nonetheless. If you've rep[laced the valve stem seals and the pcv, you are probably looking at rings. If it were mine I'd stay with the HM oils and just top off as needed until you can rebuild or replace the engine. I think you should run the Max Life for longer OCI's, consider 2K OCI's aren't really allowing enough time for the oil to do it's job. That's just my two cents.

 

[danthaman1980]

Dave,

If VML hasn't slowed down your consumption, try a thick-for-grade HM like PHM or Defy (VML is not thick for grade).

If that doesn't help, 1 qt per 1,000 miles could get expensive if you're paying retail prices. Probably your best option would be to stock up on cheap dino on sale. (Menards or Blain's F&F!)

 

[mene]

Hi. we have a 2004, I'm not clear on what is your objective, reducing the blue smoke or reducing oil consumption, this engines are re-known for burning oil, but they last a long time, are reliable and bulletproof. If you care to look around at the chrysler minivan forum you will get most of your answers, many you might not like but will be the thruth. Now, some people will be happy using 1 quart/1000 miles, and although it sounds crazy Chrysler (and most other manufacturers too) consider 1 Qt./ 800 miles the upper limit. Ours was burning a quart around 900 miles when we bought it, after using Amsoil 0W30 and a can of Liquimoly MOS2 for 2 Oil changes it went down to 1qt./2300 miles. Was the oil? Was the MOS2? I have no idea, but worked, perhaps the oil cleaned and rejuvenated the seals and the MOS2 sealed the cylinders, I know a lot of people here hates Amsoil and a bunch more are for M1 specially 0W40 even as a salad dress, choose a good synthetic in the 30 flavor and add MOS2 and try it to see how it goes, or try the combo that worked for us. I have nothing to do with Amsoil or hate M1 in fact the van with the Amsoil have Supertech ATF-4 and just bought Castrol ATF-4 for a change and the other van has M1 0W40 right now, both with MOS2.
Good luck and let us know

 

[dave180]

Thanks all for the quick replies!! Two follow-up questions:

1. By thick for grade, you mean PHM is actually a [thicker] HM oil than VML or others?


2. I first read something about MOS2 on BITOG. Where would I purchase this product?

 

[mene]

I bought a bunch of MOS2 cans at NAPA when they had them in discount, and I have seen them at Advance Auto Parts too. Yes PHM is ticker than VHM but within the 30 range. By the way M1HM is highly regarded around here. I've never used a HM oil yet, might try one in the future.

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: dave180
Thanks all for the quick replies!! Two follow-up questions:

1. By thick for grade, you mean PHM is actually a [thicker] HM oil than VML or others?


2. I first read something about MOS2 on BITOG. Where would I purchase this product?


1) Yes, some HM oils are on the thick end of the spectrum within their viscosity grade. For example, when up to temp, PHM 5W-30 and QS Defy 5W-30 are right in between typical xW-30s and xW-40s. This may help consumption when compared to 'normal' xW-30s.

2) MoS2 is great stuff. Some NAPA locations carry it.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: dave180
Thanks all for the quick replies!! Two follow-up questions:

1. By thick for grade, you mean PHM is actually a [thicker] HM oil than VML or others?


2. I first read something about MOS2 on BITOG. Where would I purchase this product?

I don't know about #1, but MOS2 can be purchased online at Amazon or locally at NAPA.

 

[dave180]

Thank you all very much.

I value your knowledge and expertise. At least now I know my options and what course of action I can take.

 

[fdcg27]

You've replaced the valve guide seals and you're confident that there is no clogging in the PCV system.
That pretty well leaves either stuck rings or worn rings/bores.
Why would you think that having used synthetic oil protected the engine when it has a serious problem after only 154K?
On reasonable drain intervals, any oil should have prevented either coked rings or excessive wear.
This leaves a failure mode generic to this engine as the likely culprit.
If you have no interest in a re-ring job, then you could try a piston soak with Kreen to see whether you can free what might just be stuck rings.
Worth a shot.
Meanwhile, you could go to a 10W-40 grade to try to slow consumption. I believe that Chrysler recommended a 10W-30 for this engine.
VML syn will do nothing on a 2K OCI, incidentally, nor will any other oil.
I'm also not too confident that any HM oil will either free stuck rings or do much to reduce consumption resulting from excessive wear.
A thicker grade would probably reduce consumption, though.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: dave180

It seemed to be fine and now, after 3.5K miles, the blue cloud has returned. If I start it and idle it to operating temp > no blue smoke. If I drive it lightly to warm it up > no blue smoke. Hard accel > blue smoke.


Your piston rings are worn out. The telltale sign is the blue smoke while the engine is under load during hard acceleration or driving up a steep grade. HM oil is not going to save you at this point. You should be looking at going with a much thicker oil. A thicker oil won't slide past the worn out piston rings as easy. How did you manage to wear out the piston rings at only 154,000 miles?

 

[mene]

The general consensus at the minivan forum is that perhaps the cylinder bores are not totally straight or are flexing, the engine comes from over-boring and over-stroking a 3.3 which is known not to have any of those issues. The second edition of the 4th. generation that came out in 2005 was better in this respect but Chrysler lower the HP and begun using 20 grade oil, it did improve but it has never been like the 3.3L. Having said that there are a lot of the 3.8's hitting the 300K. miles without a hitch, perhaps the timing chain but very little else. These is not the only oil drinking engine ever built, far from it, there has been few from most of the mayor manufacturers. If you feel worried or get in your nerves, maybe you can sell it and get one with a 3.3L, you will loose power and luxury and perhaps space if you can't find a LWB, but if I were you I would be more worried about the 41TE than the EDH. You can try a 40 weight oil as recommended, it has helped some vans but not many, the engine don't mind at all, nothing bad happened to the people who has tried or the people who keeps on using it.
Best of luck

 

[dave180]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: dave180

It seemed to be fine and now, after 3.5K miles, the blue cloud has returned. If I start it and idle it to operating temp > no blue smoke. If I drive it lightly to warm it up > no blue smoke. Hard accel > blue smoke.


Your piston rings are worn out. The telltale sign is the blue smoke while the engine is under load during hard acceleration or driving up a steep grade. HM oil is not going to save you at this point. You should be looking at going with a much thicker oil. A thicker oil won't slide past the worn out piston rings as easy. How did you manage to wear out the piston rings at only 154,000 miles?


My parents took good care of this care until about 72,000 mi. I have done 2mo/2K OCIs on it since then. I am not inclined to believe I "wore it out." The oil burning is more of an annoyance than a deep concern. I may just try a heavier oil and call it a day. I just find it strange that there is no visible indication of oil burning after warm-up. Weird.

 

[mene]

My parents took good care of this care until about 72,000 mi. I have done 2mo/2K OCIs on it since then. I am not inclined to believe I "wore it out." The oil burning is more of an annoyance than a deep concern. I may just try a heavier oil and call it a day. I just find it strange that there is no visible indication of oil burning after warm-up. Weird. [/quote]

It will most likely disappear in summer, most don't show anything and the ones who show it is when cold and yes when warmed you don't see a thing, and the exhaust pipe most likely be black, it also happens to most burning or not.

 

[tiger862]

1 quart in 1k in normal in most vehicles. Keep oil topped off and change at 3k and enjoy. Sounds like valve guides in heads are worn. If is smoking any at all you could damage convertor so keep an eye on it.