Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
additives
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Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements .
LoL... you make it sound like these additives are made up of some humongous molecules that can get lodged in places. But in fact, they are all tiny particles, the same size as your oil, so they will flow freely everywhere your oil goes, too.
With that said, there is always a risk of additive clash - the various chemistries of the additives that are already in your oil as well as the chemistries of additives you add from a can are not always compatible and can actually reduce each other's effectiveness. Remember, your oil has been expertly formulated by an engineer (hopefully), and contains a predetermined balance of various oil bases and additives that are compatible and complementary to each other in order to meet a desired performance specification (API, ACEA, various mfg specs, etc). Throwing extra ingredients in there doesn't necessarily make things better. Kind of like with cooking.
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements .
LoL... you make it sound like these additives are made up of some humongous molecules that can get lodged in places. But in fact, they are all tiny particles, the same size as your oil, so they will flow freely everywhere your oil goes, too.
With that said, there is always a risk of additive clash - the various chemistries of the additives that are already in your oil as well as the chemistries of additives you add from a can are not always compatible and can actually reduce each other's effectiveness. Remember, your oil has been expertly formulated by an engineer (hopefully), and contains a predetermined balance of various oil bases and additives that are compatible and complementary to each other in order to meet a desired performance specification (API, ACEA, various mfg specs, etc). Throwing extra ingredients in there doesn't necessarily make things better. Kind of like with cooking.
I guess you should take a step back and tell us what problem you're trying to solve. I would say that 99.99% of car manufacturers strongly advise against using any aftermarket additives in the engine. So you'd better have a really good reason for wanting to put extra stuff in there.
Don't forget that the motor oil companies themselves were putting moly in their motor oils. Of course those moly additives were in the correct form and they tested their motor oils in engine sequence tests and in fleets of vehicles. Somebody just selling some moly additive with larger particles of moly and not in the correct chemical formulation is a different story. There is a big difference between somebody just concocting some motor oil additive in a back garage and a team of chemists and chemical engineers developing a motor oil formulation for Exxon/Mobil, Ashland Oil, Pennzoil, etc. The motor oil companies seem to be mostly getting away from the moly and using other types of additives.
There certainly are motor oil additives that are just scams and there is false advertising and all of that.
I personally do not believe in most engine cleaners and oil supplements. But there are a few that I think are legit and good. I have had good success with various Lubegard products and a very large number of guys at this website report having had success with products like Marvel Mystery Oil and Kreen.
I guess the bottom line is nobody has to use any engine cleaner or oil supplement. If you buy a car, truck, van or SUV new and do reasonable oil changes with quality motor oil and with reasonable change intervals you should have no problems. Somebody who uses something like Mobil 1 oil may never need to use an engine cleaner anyway. Or at least until the vehicle is old and has many miles. If you buy a used vehicle you need to try to make sure that the vehicle had been properly taken care of in terms of maintenance.
Does it seem like I am telling the truth?
There certainly are motor oil additives that are just scams and there is false advertising and all of that.
I personally do not believe in most engine cleaners and oil supplements. But there are a few that I think are legit and good. I have had good success with various Lubegard products and a very large number of guys at this website report having had success with products like Marvel Mystery Oil and Kreen.
I guess the bottom line is nobody has to use any engine cleaner or oil supplement. If you buy a car, truck, van or SUV new and do reasonable oil changes with quality motor oil and with reasonable change intervals you should have no problems. Somebody who uses something like Mobil 1 oil may never need to use an engine cleaner anyway. Or at least until the vehicle is old and has many miles. If you buy a used vehicle you need to try to make sure that the vehicle had been properly taken care of in terms of maintenance.
Does it seem like I am telling the truth?
buy oil and use it there is nothing you can do to it that will make it better as far as i know. The oil companies spend millions and have all the r&d behind them so they know more than us or at least me
If you're using good oils, there's really nothing for you to add to them that will improve any aspect of their performance.
Additives should only be used to address a specific problem, as a last ditch resort before having to use wrenches or to pay someone else to do so. They can sometimes help, although most mechanic-in-a-can products won't. You might free a sticky lifter with an additive, or you might free stuck rings with a solvent soak of the pistons. If you try either without result, no harm is done.
I'd be very careful of any additve in a healthy engine.
Some, like ARX, will do no harm, while others may leave you wishing that you'd left well enough alone.
Don't use additives to fix something that isn't broken lest you fix it until it breaks.
Additives should only be used to address a specific problem, as a last ditch resort before having to use wrenches or to pay someone else to do so. They can sometimes help, although most mechanic-in-a-can products won't. You might free a sticky lifter with an additive, or you might free stuck rings with a solvent soak of the pistons. If you try either without result, no harm is done.
I'd be very careful of any additve in a healthy engine.
Some, like ARX, will do no harm, while others may leave you wishing that you'd left well enough alone.
Don't use additives to fix something that isn't broken lest you fix it until it breaks.
Originally Posted By: Mystic
But there are a few that I think are legit and good. I have had good success with various Lubegard products and a very large number of guys at this website report having had success with products like Marvel Mystery Oil and Kreen.
Without this site I would have never come across Lubegard. Haven't used it or need to. But to add to the list of legit and good items: Schaeffer Oil Moly E.P. Oil Treatment and Liqui-Moly MOS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment, RedLine Water Wetter, RedLine SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner
But there are a few that I think are legit and good. I have had good success with various Lubegard products and a very large number of guys at this website report having had success with products like Marvel Mystery Oil and Kreen.
Without this site I would have never come across Lubegard. Haven't used it or need to. But to add to the list of legit and good items: Schaeffer Oil Moly E.P. Oil Treatment and Liqui-Moly MOS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment, RedLine Water Wetter, RedLine SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner
Originally Posted By: 285south
RedLine Water Wetter, RedLine SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner
I thought we were talking about oil additives?
RedLine Water Wetter, RedLine SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner
I thought we were talking about oil additives?
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
Since you mention Moly it seems to me that you are looking to maybe trying it and want to know if any possible damage can come out of the experiment, I invite you to search here about Lubromoly MOS2, all the comments before mine are logical and true but then.....Just read the threads about lubromoly/Liquimoly MOS2.
Good hunting
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
Since you mention Moly it seems to me that you are looking to maybe trying it and want to know if any possible damage can come out of the experiment, I invite you to search here about Lubromoly MOS2, all the comments before mine are logical and true but then.....Just read the threads about lubromoly/Liquimoly MOS2.
Good hunting
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Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
No need for additives
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
No need for additives
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
No need for additives
The Liqui-Moly folks make a wide range of motor oils, mineral oil, semi-synth, synthetic. Some of them contain MoS2. They also sell MoS2 separately as Liqui-Moly Oil Additive (formerly known as Liqui-Moly Anti Friction). Is there any need for MoS2 in the motor oils that Liqui-Moly sell? Ditto for some of the motor oils made by Schaeffer, Amsoil, Mobil, Eneos and others, all of which contain Moly in varying forms and quantities?
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
No need for additives
The Liqui-Moly folks make a wide range of motor oils, mineral oil, semi-synth, synthetic. Some of them contain MoS2. They also sell MoS2 separately as Liqui-Moly Oil Additive (formerly known as Liqui-Moly Anti Friction). Is there any need for MoS2 in the motor oils that Liqui-Moly sell? Ditto for some of the motor oils made by Schaeffer, Amsoil, Mobil, Eneos and others, all of which contain Moly in varying forms and quantities?
Thanks guys. I was thinking of using a moly additive but ill just stick to the synthetic oil and filter in the pickup. Its not that I have a problem with the engine, but I just thought if I can make it better then why not give it a shot. A lot of people hear seem to think that stuff works but the majority of u guys say no to the stuff.
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
Only additive I use in GAS and Oil is Marvel Mystery Oil. I use a the correct amount for each fill up and i use some in my oil about 300 miles to 500 miles before I change my oil and it really cleans up the motor. That oil will be brown and after a few hundred miles with Marvel Mystery Oil, the oil will turn black.
I have used it a long time and I have family memebers like my DAD and my Grandpa whom have used it before I was born and they swear by it.
Thats all I use as far as ADDATIVE.
Have you looked at MMO
thats short for Marvel Mysteory Oil
Many people and Mechanics swear by it.
Am I wrong to think that adding such things as moly or ceretec could get between the rings and the piston and cause more harm then good. Can using them clog up a engine or filter. It just seems to me that adding stuff to oil would somehow get between moving parts and disturb there natural movements . Now I know oil in a way does get in between things but adding stuff to oil would somehow make the oil react different. Im kinda thinking about adding some kind of moly additive but im not sure if its a good thing to do. Years ago I always used to add stuff to the oil. I never ruined a engine doing it but I was always told that I shouldn't. Plus I only use top shelf synthetics and filters now so im a little concerned with adding anything now. Yeah i guess moly is good for wear but is it good mixed with qsud or Castrol syntec. Idk
Only additive I use in GAS and Oil is Marvel Mystery Oil. I use a the correct amount for each fill up and i use some in my oil about 300 miles to 500 miles before I change my oil and it really cleans up the motor. That oil will be brown and after a few hundred miles with Marvel Mystery Oil, the oil will turn black.
I have used it a long time and I have family memebers like my DAD and my Grandpa whom have used it before I was born and they swear by it.
Thats all I use as far as ADDATIVE.
Have you looked at MMO
thats short for Marvel Mysteory Oil
Many people and Mechanics swear by it.
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I lean more toward adding a 1qt of heavier oil to your normal oil to thicken it up instead of additives.
If you use 10w30 or 10w40, add 1/5 to 1/4 of your oil capacity with 15w50 of properly rated motor oil for your engine to thicken it up without going overboard. That way you are using pure oil, not additives that may cause unwanted things to your engine.
If you are a worse oil burning problem, maybe do half as 10w30 and half as 20w50. It would still be less extreme as adding a bottle of stop-smoke or a similar additive, I think.
Also it wouldn't risk clogging oil filters or pump filter screens.
If you use 10w30 or 10w40, add 1/5 to 1/4 of your oil capacity with 15w50 of properly rated motor oil for your engine to thicken it up without going overboard. That way you are using pure oil, not additives that may cause unwanted things to your engine.
If you are a worse oil burning problem, maybe do half as 10w30 and half as 20w50. It would still be less extreme as adding a bottle of stop-smoke or a similar additive, I think.
Also it wouldn't risk clogging oil filters or pump filter screens.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
I lean more toward adding a 1qt of heavier oil to your normal oil to thicken it up instead of additives. If you use 10w30 or 10w40, add 1/5 to 1/4 of your oil capacity with 15w50 of properly rated motor oil for your engine to thicken it up without going overboard. That way you are using pure oil, not additives that may cause unwanted things to your engine.
If your vehicle is using oil, you might start by trying to determine the reason.
- If it's a leaking gasket, replace the gasket.
- If it's a leaking engine seal, there are several products which claim to 'swell' the seals and reduce the leakage.
- If oil is passing the rings, consider a product like MoS2, which clings to metal parts, rings and cylinder walls, and may reduce oil usage in the cylinders.
Of course, the simplest and cheapest solution is usually to add more oil (of the correct grade).
The problem with thicker oil (regardless of how you achieve it) is that it reduces engine efficiency. The engine simply has to work harder to move the molasses through the system.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
If you are a worse oil burning problem, maybe do half as 10w30 and half as 20w50. It would still be less extreme as adding a bottle of stop-smoke or a similar additive, I think.
No, no, no. If you really want heavier oil, for whatever reasons, then just start with heavier oil. Don't mix - the results are not predictable. Buy 10w-40 instead of 5w-30.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Also it wouldn't risk clogging oil filters or pump filter screens.
Clogging filters or pump filter screens is simply not a problem with modern oils and modern additives. This is so regardless of oil weight. Oil filters trap particles in the 15-20+ micron size range. Most additives with particles in suspension use particles < 1 micron in size - maybe much less than this. And, if you really should manage to clog an oil filter, then there is the pressure relief valve.
A few vehicles (e.g. turbo Foresters SGs prior to 2006) had a known problem with certain filter screens clogging. The fix was to remove the screens. BTW, these screens didn't clog from additives but from little pieces of metal as your turbo bearings started disintegrating.
Final thought: if you have a vehicle with variable valve timing (and it's a very common feature on newer vehicles), be aware that motor oil pressure is used for hydraulic actuation of this mechanism. If you use oil that's too heavy (e.g. 10w-40, when the manufacturer specified 5w-30), you run the risk of the VVT mechanism not working properly and possibly causing the low oil pressure light to illuminate. Your oil pressure is not really low, but the oil is not properly passing through the VVT mechanism and the oil pressure light sender is located north of this mechanism.
I lean more toward adding a 1qt of heavier oil to your normal oil to thicken it up instead of additives. If you use 10w30 or 10w40, add 1/5 to 1/4 of your oil capacity with 15w50 of properly rated motor oil for your engine to thicken it up without going overboard. That way you are using pure oil, not additives that may cause unwanted things to your engine.
If your vehicle is using oil, you might start by trying to determine the reason.
- If it's a leaking gasket, replace the gasket.
- If it's a leaking engine seal, there are several products which claim to 'swell' the seals and reduce the leakage.
- If oil is passing the rings, consider a product like MoS2, which clings to metal parts, rings and cylinder walls, and may reduce oil usage in the cylinders.
Of course, the simplest and cheapest solution is usually to add more oil (of the correct grade).
The problem with thicker oil (regardless of how you achieve it) is that it reduces engine efficiency. The engine simply has to work harder to move the molasses through the system.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
If you are a worse oil burning problem, maybe do half as 10w30 and half as 20w50. It would still be less extreme as adding a bottle of stop-smoke or a similar additive, I think.
No, no, no. If you really want heavier oil, for whatever reasons, then just start with heavier oil. Don't mix - the results are not predictable. Buy 10w-40 instead of 5w-30.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Also it wouldn't risk clogging oil filters or pump filter screens.
Clogging filters or pump filter screens is simply not a problem with modern oils and modern additives. This is so regardless of oil weight. Oil filters trap particles in the 15-20+ micron size range. Most additives with particles in suspension use particles < 1 micron in size - maybe much less than this. And, if you really should manage to clog an oil filter, then there is the pressure relief valve.
A few vehicles (e.g. turbo Foresters SGs prior to 2006) had a known problem with certain filter screens clogging. The fix was to remove the screens. BTW, these screens didn't clog from additives but from little pieces of metal as your turbo bearings started disintegrating.
Final thought: if you have a vehicle with variable valve timing (and it's a very common feature on newer vehicles), be aware that motor oil pressure is used for hydraulic actuation of this mechanism. If you use oil that's too heavy (e.g. 10w-40, when the manufacturer specified 5w-30), you run the risk of the VVT mechanism not working properly and possibly causing the low oil pressure light to illuminate. Your oil pressure is not really low, but the oil is not properly passing through the VVT mechanism and the oil pressure light sender is located north of this mechanism.
Actually, there are some reports on this forum about "Engine Restore" clogging oil filters.
I have a 1978 carburetor engine... heh. Refer to my sig.
I have a 1978 carburetor engine... heh. Refer to my sig.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Actually, there are some reports on this forum about "Engine Restore" clogging oil filters.
I have no experience with Engine Restorer and I probably would not put it in the category of more conventional additive, or routine-use additives.
I would also have some doubts about a clogged oil filter report. It's easy to say this happened, but how would you really know, short of surgery on the filter? And, even if you cut it open, how would you determine that it was clogged? After all, the pressure relief valve should open and you should go on your way, only with unfiltered oil circulating (which is really not the end of the world).
There is a 'clogged filter' report regarding MoS2. I was particularly interested in this because I have some experience with MoS2 in various forms. As best I can tell, this really wasn't a clogged filter, but an 'oil pressure light' problem, in a vehicle with VVT. I am not questioning the sincerity of the OP on this. Rather, I think he simply misread the facts of what went wrong.
If the Engine Restorer 'clogged filter' poster really meant that he lost oil pressure (as in 'oil light came on'), that was covered above. Depending on exactly what is in this product, I suspect Engine Restorer could do a number on your VVT mechanism.
Actually, there are some reports on this forum about "Engine Restore" clogging oil filters.
I have no experience with Engine Restorer and I probably would not put it in the category of more conventional additive, or routine-use additives.
I would also have some doubts about a clogged oil filter report. It's easy to say this happened, but how would you really know, short of surgery on the filter? And, even if you cut it open, how would you determine that it was clogged? After all, the pressure relief valve should open and you should go on your way, only with unfiltered oil circulating (which is really not the end of the world).
There is a 'clogged filter' report regarding MoS2. I was particularly interested in this because I have some experience with MoS2 in various forms. As best I can tell, this really wasn't a clogged filter, but an 'oil pressure light' problem, in a vehicle with VVT. I am not questioning the sincerity of the OP on this. Rather, I think he simply misread the facts of what went wrong.
If the Engine Restorer 'clogged filter' poster really meant that he lost oil pressure (as in 'oil light came on'), that was covered above. Depending on exactly what is in this product, I suspect Engine Restorer could do a number on your VVT mechanism.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Actually, there are some reports on this forum about "Engine Restore" clogging oil filters.
I did a bit of net digging on Engine Restore, and the best analysis I could find was this:
"RESTORE is a SAE-30 high performance motor oil containing billions of micro-particles of the proprietary formula CSL (Copper 60%, Lead 40%, Silver trace) in suspension."
According to more than a few users, if you empty the can, there is some semi-solid gunk near the bottom. It is definitely a 'shake before using' kind of product. So, maybe it would clog a filter. As I suggested above, this could happen and you probably wouldn't know it.
Actually, there are some reports on this forum about "Engine Restore" clogging oil filters.
I did a bit of net digging on Engine Restore, and the best analysis I could find was this:
"RESTORE is a SAE-30 high performance motor oil containing billions of micro-particles of the proprietary formula CSL (Copper 60%, Lead 40%, Silver trace) in suspension."
According to more than a few users, if you empty the can, there is some semi-solid gunk near the bottom. It is definitely a 'shake before using' kind of product. So, maybe it would clog a filter. As I suggested above, this could happen and you probably wouldn't know it.
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