General oil advice please - older V8

[QBee]

Interested on your views on Shell Helix 10w60 oil for track day use (and general road use) in a British TVR sports car. Performance is 0-60mph in about 4.3 seconds, quarter mile in about 12-13 seconds, top speed 160 mph
Climate - operating in temperatures from 32F to about 85F, mainly 45F to 70F.

Engine is 5 litres, V8, a longer stroke version of the Range Rover engine, which in turn was developed from a 1950s Buick, so not exactly high tech. The TVR forums in the UK worry about having enough zinc in their oil, but otherwise opinions vary on what is the best oil to run.

My engine was actually built last year, 10,000 miles ago, but the average age of these V8 engines is about 18 years old. Most owners use a 20w50 oil, something like Valvoline VR1, or Castrol 5 or 10w40.

 

[A_Harman]

Yes, the old Buick (and Olds) 215 had a long production life across the pond. It was just too small to exist in a country where 350's were regarded as "average". I don't see any reason to run more than a 40-weight in it, unless it was built with very loose bearing clearances.

 

[dparm]

Hi QBee,

Why do you feel the need to use such a thick oil? Is a 40-weight not providing sufficient oil pressure or is it breaking down under the stress?

Even Ferrari has stopped using 10w60 in their cars -- they now use Shell Helix Ultra 5w40. BMW has also dropped it for their M cars, now allowing 0w40s. Audi allows 10w60 in the R8 GT.

Many of us M3 owners have switched to Mobil 1 0w40 and have seen better wear numbers and lower oil temperatures on the track.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Yes, the old Buick (and Olds) 215 had a long production life across the pond. It was just too small to exist in a country where 350's were regarded as "average". I don't see any reason to run more than a 40-weight in it, unless it was built with very loose bearing clearances.



Likewise, it is unlikely to need such a thick oil. Please provide the temps and oil pressures you are experiencing, as it is difficult if not impossible to be sure without additional data...

 

[QBee]

Thank you both.

No good reason for using 10w60 oil other than reading around the subject and discussing it with my service agent and other owners. Opinions vary, which is why I was asking for opinions amongst those with more knowledge of oil. I am keen to avoid excessive wear, and I do do a fair amount of "spirited" driving, both on and off the track, so your advice has been taken on board.

The TVR engine is an old design (my car itself is 14 years old and the engine design dates back to the 1950s), so i suppose I was trying to compensate for the lower tech nature of the engine. The car itself looks a little like a small version of the Cobra, to give you a perspective - fibreglass body, steel chassis, rear wheel drive, 1.1 tons.

The biggest worry is losing oil pressure on the race track - some of my colleagues, especially those whose engines have been bored out to 5.5 litres using Chevvy internals, find their oil pressure dropping away under heavy braking followed by fierce turning (the sharp corner on a race track scenario). Mine doesn't, which is a relief, but I want to minimise the risk, so i am having a large capacity baffled sump made to help keep the oil supply to the engine up. And was trying to chose the best compromise oil for all circumstances.

Anyway, i am not trying to justify my decision of 6 months ago, i am here to add your thoughts to my knowledge bank and make changes for the best.

so thanks for your input - most welcome

 

[QBee]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Yes, the old Buick (and Olds) 215 had a long production life across the pond. It was just too small to exist in a country where 350's were regarded as "average". I don't see any reason to run more than a 40-weight in it, unless it was built with very loose bearing clearances.



Likewise, it is unlikely to need such a thick oil. Please provide the temps and oil pressures you are experiencing, as it is difficult if not impossible to be sure without additional data...


Sorry, I do have pressure data - between 30 and 45 psi per the gauge - but not temperatures. I think some form of data logger is called for, so thanks for asking that.

 

[Shannow]

Given that it's basically an alloy version of a traditional iron V-8 (there were iron versions in the states out to around 305IIRC), there's likely to be more movement, and expansion than on later all alloy engines with girdles and crossbolted bottom ends.

That being said, 50 is getting a bit extreme.

Penrite make a PAO/Ester, VII free 10W-40 (racing 10W-40, have spoken to the techs, and there's nothing to stop a normal OCI using it), which you can get over there.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/uk_locator.php?region=HAMPSHIRE

 

[A_Harman]

The aluminum version of that engine family actually was introduced first (1960), but it failed to sell well. Buick redesigned it in iron with a taller deck and stroked it to 300 cubic inches. Then they added a V6 version that became the ubiquitous 231 Buick V6 that was produced from 1975 to 2008.

 

[Shannow]

Dang, I new that last part too...drove one (L67) to work...and forgot all about it.

I've got an old car mag with the Olds turbo 215 in it somewhere.

 

[Claud]

The engine was designed to run with about 40lb/in pressure.
The oil needs to flow through the engine to remove heat from bearing surfaces, oil too thick won't do a good job.
Treacle like 20w50 was fine for our old "A" and "B" BMC lumps with their loose tolerance clearances, and Ford, Vauxhall and Rootes engines of the '60s and '70s weren't much better.
I've heard tales of people adding a bit of 80 weight gear oil to "quieten down the big ends so I can nurse the old girl along for a bit longer" in their clapped out old Austin Cambridge or similar. But your track prepped TVR isn't in that category, neither is it a multi cammed state of the art 21st century engine.
I think a quality 10w40 would be just fine for your engine, the main thing being change it frequently. Back in the day Rover V8s had a reputation for poor oil pressure, this was mostly due to neglected maintenance and low quality oils rather than an inherent engine defect.
Oil pressure loss when braking or hard cornering is another matter altogether, the problem is oil getting pulled away from the pickup. However it seems you have addressed this issue with a baffled sump, maybe a windage tray would also help.

Claud.