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#3307453 - 03/10/14 05:19 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: whip]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: whip
Quote:

Originally Posted By: whip
Once with the ball mount and once without.


Incorrect. Both times were with hitch and ball mount.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: whip
You say people tailgate less with the mount in place.


Correct.

You don't see the contradiction in these two statements?


No, I don't. The 2 stoplight accidents had nothing to do with tailgating. In both cases, the offenders were initially quite far from my truck and they just approached the traffic light as if it were green and I wasn't in the way. Had there been a wall there instead of me, they would've hit that. To give you an idea, one of the drivers was so stoned that he kept accelerating even after hitting my hitch. I had to put the truck in park/ebrake it, then walk back to his van to get him to stop accelerating. The other time was a drunk driver who had obviously slowed reaction time. So these stoplight accidents have little to do with what I was referring to, which was drivers being more likely to leave a safe distance between themselves and me during freeway driving, and then react appropriately when freeway driving gradually slows to a stop. The drivers who are more cautious by leaving more distance when following me on the freeway are generally the ones who are paying attention, and will have more time to stop. And I notice more of these cautious drivers around me when I have my hitch on. This can also apply to street driving, when I have traffic following me. Hope this clears things up. If not, ask away.

Originally Posted By: whip

Originally Posted By: moving2
I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause.


You just said that exact thing in the quoted post above. If people tailgate less, your chances of being rear ended go down. Am I the only one that sees that?


I'm not sure if you're purposely taking this out of context, but I was referring specifically to the rear-enders I've been involved in (at stoplights). I can rephrase it to clarify if you'd like:
"I don't see how leaving my hitch in place would increase or decrease my probability of being rear-ended in the situations I've described at stoplights, I believe it would only affect the damage a rear-ender might cause". If that wasn't clear, now it is.

I don't see the hitch reducing the probability of a rear-ender in the cases of drugged out and/or drunk drivers who approach a stoplight like it's not there. They would hit whatever stops them regardless. I do see it reducing the probability of rear-enders on the freeway, and potentially when driving on the streets, in more common situations as explained above. Maybe this is why I've had no rear-enders on the freeway. Nor any rear enders on the street when I actually have traffic following me. And I do see the hitch as reducing the likelihood of damage, as it did in the 2 rear-enders I was a victim of.


Originally Posted By: whip
I never made any claims about attachments on the rear of my vehicle affecting how those following me drive.


You did say this:
Originally Posted By: whip
So based on your experience, you would tailgate me if I taped pillows to my bumper? [...] You said a hitch makes people back off because of the increased danger. Conversely, it would make sense that a soft target would make people drive closer because of the reduced danger. Based on your anecdotal evidence, that seems perfectly logical. How is that grasping at straws?


...and then refuse to address the lack of "perfect logic" I've pointed out in your argument. Again, I'm all ears in hearing you actually address this.

_________________________
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#3307462 - 03/10/14 05:30 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4331
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Leaving your ball mount in, obviously attracts both high and drunk people to rear-end you!!! If I were you, I'd take out the mount and avoid the accidents altogether!

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#3307465 - 03/10/14 05:33 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: surfstar]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Leaving your ball mount in, obviously attracts both high and drunk people to rear-end you!!! If I were you, I'd take out the mount and avoid the accidents altogether!


...and it apparently causes many more drivers to keep a safe distance from my vehicle when they otherwise might not, thereby AVOIDING countless accidents. It's easier for you to count accidents that have occurred than to consider accidents potentially prevented, it seems. Perhaps you didn't read about the more cautious drivers around me on the freeway. Or perhaps you're doing a little selective reading. wink

It has also saved my vehicle from damage, regardless who is rear-ending me and why.
_________________________
'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
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#3307473 - 03/10/14 05:41 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4331
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Your "observations" regarding people keeping a distance when you leave it in vs not - is merely subjective hearsay in this argument. You seem quite adamant that you're presenting "facts" - but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings. Therefore, I find my conclusion that leaving a ball mount in place attracts impaired drivers to rear-end you is more likely as it fits the actual facts that you have presented.

Either way, you seem likely to argue for a few more pages.

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#3307489 - 03/10/14 05:54 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: surfstar]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Your "observations" regarding people keeping a distance when you leave it in vs not - is merely subjective hearsay in this argument. You seem quite adamant that you're presenting "facts" - but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings.


surfstar- your "argument" holds no water.

1. You cannot prove that my hitch either contributed to or avoided any accidents at all. Which is to say, you have nothing. To assume it caused the 2 rear-enders I was involved in is less than baseless, it's ridiculous.


2.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
...but the only true data points we have are the two rear-endings.


Yes, and in both those data points, the hitch protected my vehicle from damage. I wonder why you are ignoring this fact. Oh yeah, I know. grin2


3.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Therefore, I find my conclusion that leaving a ball mount in place attracts impaired drivers to rear-end you is more likely as it fits the actual facts that you have presented.


And you have yet to provide any supporting evidence or arguments as to how my hitch contributed to these accidents. As I said, these were drunk/stoned drivers who would've hit a wall if it were in their way (maybe you forget...one kept accelerating after rear-ending me).

I have presented the fact that I have never been involved in an accident when someone was following me with the hitch on, and the observation that drivers are more cautious driving around me when it is on. And what facts and observations, much less supporting arguments have you presented? Oh yeah. None.

Nothing but the ridiculous argument that a trailer hitch somehow magically attracts druggies and drunkards. Riiiiiight. Good "observations" and "logic" there, surfstar. If those are the "facts" you want to "fill pages" with, then thanks for the continued laughs at your expense.
_________________________
'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
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#3307514 - 03/10/14 06:28 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: surfstar]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
surfstar- one more thing...

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Your "observations" [...] is merely subjective hearsay in this argument. You seem quite adamant that you're presenting "facts" [...]


Not sure if you've actually read this thread, but I think I was pretty clear above when I responded to whip's question:
Originally Posted By: whip
...have there been studies to prove this?


Originally Posted By: moving2

It is anecdotal evidence presented as my observations and experience over 12 years driving both with and without a hitch on busy LA freeways where tailgating is quite common. Drivers tailgate me less often, and leave more space when following me and when coming to a stop behind my vehicle; the difference is pretty noticeable. You may not be one of those drivers who is more cautious around a hitch, but my observation is that a lot of other drivers are. And, while I can understand your need for a scientific study, because the difference was readily apparent in my experience, that's all I need to know to leave the hitch on; not to mention the protection it has offered my vehicle in 2 accidents- see above.

If you're truly interested in obtaining statistically significant data, please do let me know what you find.


If you read that as presenting "facts" vs. explaining why I leave my hitch on based on my experience driving with it on and off, then might I politely suggest you work on your reading comprehension. grin2
_________________________
'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40

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#3308139 - 03/11/14 09:57 AM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 236
Loc: iowa
Here is a study that claims less rear damage, but higher risk of whiplash, which can be a issue with insurance companies.Something has to give. Your bumper or your neck.
http://alerts.nationalsafetycommission.com/2011/04/how-receiver-hitches-affect-rear-end.html


Edited by Traction (03/11/14 10:01 AM)

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#3308263 - 03/11/14 12:27 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Traction
Here is a study that claims less rear damage, but higher risk of whiplash, which can be a issue with insurance companies.Something has to give. Your bumper or your neck.
http://alerts.nationalsafetycommission.com/2011/04/how-receiver-hitches-affect-rear-end.html


No conflict of interest there...
Quote:
About the author:
Jeff is CEO of Mohr
Mfg
and is an expert in rear end collisions - especially those associated with ball mounts and receiver hitches. His company manufacturers patented, portable, crash tested, energy absorbing rear safety guards for vehicles equipped with receiver hitches. These spare bumpers, ball mounts, hitch steps, and bumper shields soften the “crash pulse” to prevent whiplash and reduce rear end collision damage caused by tailgaters, uninsured motorists, bumper to bumper traffic, distracted drivers, inattentive cell phone users, drivers with poor judgment, text messengers and lousy parallel parkers. For more information visit their web site: http://www.sparebumper.com


The article fails to mention an important tradeoff: crash forces are only one factor in crash safety; preservation of the safety cage is another. The same stiff tow bar attached to a vehicle's frame that can transfer more forces to passengers in a low speed crash...can also cause the rear end of the vehicle to deform less in a high speed crash by transferring more crash forces to the frame vs. the comparatively "soft" body, potentially providing additional protection to the passenger compartment. Also, "low speed rear end collisions (less than 10 mph) accentuate the whiplash more than high speed ones" according to this article.
_________________________
'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40

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#3308959 - 03/12/14 01:36 AM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
Subdued Offline


Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 282
Loc: Youngstown, NY
I always left mine in to maximize damage to the car that ran into me. It basically guarantees they'll have to get a tow.

Take that, jerk!

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#3309113 - 03/12/14 08:43 AM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
hatt Online   content


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 994
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Traction
Here is a study that claims less rear damage, but higher risk of whiplash, which can be a issue with insurance companies.Something has to give. Your bumper or your neck.
http://alerts.nationalsafetycommission.com/2011/04/how-receiver-hitches-affect-rear-end.html

That study is retarded, at least concerning the US and pickup trucks. If my ball mount wasn't in you'd hit the wider and stronger receiver first. If anything the small area of the ball mount would help soften the impact before the out of control vehicle got to the receiver.

I leave my ball in for several reasons that benefit me. I do not have any concern for people in out of control vehicles or people brushing up against my vehicle in a parking lot.
_________________________
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#3320026 - 03/22/14 05:53 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
FXjohn Offline


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1161
Loc: NE Indiana
wow, 27 pages. LOL

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#3320057 - 03/22/14 06:12 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: FXjohn]
dishdude Offline


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 3274
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wow, 27 pages. LOL


I thought this thread was done!

Thanks a lot.

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#3320074 - 03/22/14 06:24 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 236
Loc: iowa
Still amazes me how many people leave them in to annoy people, and only look out for themselves. I am not surprised.

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#3320117 - 03/22/14 07:10 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: Traction]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Traction
Still amazes me how many people leave them in to annoy people, and only look out for themselves. I am not surprised.


Traction- still amazes me how many people drive carelessly, without regard to others' safety, and end up rear-ending innocent victims, trailer hitch or no. These people are only looking out for themselves and their cellphones, usually.

Two sides of a coin some fail to see, apparently.

Sad, but I am not surprised.
_________________________
'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40

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#3320141 - 03/22/14 07:29 PM Re: WHY leave trailer hitch on ! [Re: moving2]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7068
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: Traction
Still amazes me how many people leave them in to annoy people, and only look out for themselves. I am not surprised.


Traction- still amazes me how many people drive carelessly, without regard to others' safety, and end up rear-ending innocent victims, trailer hitch or no. These people are only looking out for themselves and their cellphones, usually.

Two sides of a coin some fail to see, apparently.

Sad, but I am not surprised.


Really? I have not been involved in a rear end accident in 18 years. Trust me cell phones were not a factor.
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